Question:
I would welcome any other input about my case. I know eric’s mind along with D. Diamond. Thanks Just really scared about the incurable side effects of the schizo drugs even in low doses My fear of germs has escalated since starting/raising the Wellbutrin SR. Just feel the need to wash intensely (lather up) and be concious of what I touch and who I touch. Need to wash clothes in hot water. Don’t like to touch anything before eating (after washing). Excessive doubt as to the cleanliness of things, spoons plates, etc.Feel the need to go the extra mile and then some to placate my worry. On vacation last week in Mexico and out of the house, I am OK and just deal with what I have available. Home life is the target of my obsession. Related is my inability to think clearly about things. Memory fuzzy, foggy thinking, spend lots of mental effort to make qualitative and quantitative decisions. Don’t "know" things. What does come thru loud and clear is my worry about the germs. I know intellectually that germs are good to some degree and that I don’;t live with plague patients either. Just have much heightened anxiety about the germs. Doc has suggested Risperdal along with mylow dose of Zoloft, as way to help my depression and help OCD. I don’t like the side effect of TD though. I have not read too favorable reports from netizens about these drugs. Mostly it seems these anxieties are pronounced and require my increased vigilence. I don’t wash 25 times in a row or check the stove over and over. Rather I am on alert all of the time to subtle possibilities of germs and then excessively try to prevent infection/contamination. When and if germs are encountered I get upset but only temporarily ? I am not sure. Other options are Buspar or switch SSRI I guess. Help
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I would welcome any other input about my case. I know eric’s mind > along with D. Diamond. Thanks > Just really scared about the incurable side effects of the schizo > drugs even in low doses > My fear of germs has escalated since starting/raising the Wellbutrin > SR. Just feel the need to wash intensely (lather up) and be concious > of what I touch and who I touch. Need to wash clothes in hot water. > Don’t like to touch anything before eating (after washing). Excessive > doubt as to the cleanliness of things, spoons plates, etc.Feel the > need to go the extra mile and then some to placate my worry. On > vacation last week in Mexico and out of the house, I am OK and just > deal with what I have available. Home life is the target of my > obsession. Related is my inability to think clearly about things. > Memory fuzzy, foggy thinking, spend lots of mental effort to make > qualitative and quantitative decisions. Don’t "know" things. What does > come thru loud and clear is my worry about the germs. I know > intellectually that germs are good to some degree and that I don’;t > live with plague patients either. Just have much heightened anxiety > about the germs. > Doc has suggested Risperdal along with mylow dose of Zoloft, as way to > help my depression and help OCD. I don’t like the side effect of TD > though. I have not read too favorable reports from netizens about > these drugs. Mostly it seems these anxieties are pronounced and > require my increased vigilence. I don’t wash 25 times in a row or > check the stove over and over. Rather I am on alert all of the time to > subtle possibilities of germs and then excessively try to prevent > infection/contamination. When and if germs are encountered I get upset > but only temporarily ? I am not sure. > Other options are Buspar or switch SSRI I guess. > Help
Hi Al, I can give you a little input, though I confess I don’t know the right drugs for you; hypochondria is often a sign of anxiety and depression. Wellbutrin increases anxiety as an AD, so if I were to choose an AD, I would choose something more sedating, either SSRI or otherwise depending on how you tolerate them. Squiggles
Response:
>Doc has suggested Risperdal along with mylow dose of Zoloft, as way to >help my depression and help OCD. I don’t like the side effect of TD >though. I have not read too favorable reports from netizens about >these drugs. Mostly it seems these anxieties are pronounced and >require my increased vigilence. I don’t wash 25 times in a row or >check the stove over and over. Rather I am on alert all of the time to >subtle possibilities of germs and then excessively try to prevent >infection/contamination. When and if germs are encountered I get upset >but only temporarily ? I am not sure.
You should give Risperdal a try. I went through an incredibly manic germ freak phase several years ago after my brother tested HIV+. I completely lost it and sprayed alcohol, ammonia, and bleach on everything my brother may have touched. Since then I have been on Risperdal and Seroquel and he just came to visit for xmas. I handled it surprisingly well, although I absolutely refused to let him use my bathroom. By the way, a germ phobia isn’t necessarily so bad. In April 2000 I took a trip to Oaxaca, Mexico and hooked up with a cool local who scored me some marijuana. As is the druggie custom, I smoked several joints with him. We crashed in his shack and when he began snoring I realized he had a serious respiratory infection. 3 days later I was in Mexico City and sick as a dog. I could barely move. I went to a pharmacy and bought tetracycline and erythromycin. They worked very well but gave me diahrrea and ruined the rest of my trip. Moral of story: germ phobia can be a good thing, don’t share drugs with anyone!
Response:
Hi Al, First of all, I am no doc. I have experience cause of my depression all of my life, and my thirty year old son who lives with me has delusions so badly that if he is not on his antipsychotic med, he cannot work, or function. He doesn’t have your experience of germ stuff, but he has his own……. of fearing that someone is "out to get him". It is so traumatic for him, and family of course. Once he gets stabilized, he is fine. Now that you say that you have this germ fear, I do suggest an antipsychotic, whichever one your doc suggests. My son is on zyprexa, depacote, etc. It works for him. When you first posted you did not mention your germ fear. All I have to give you is my life experience and altho I do have my depression that renders me disfunctional a lot, I have never had any fears such as yours or my sons. I believe it is referred to as delusional. Give your doc a chance and go for the med that will calm your mind. Obsession about anything can be so disturbing. Years ago there were no drugs (not so long ago….thirty to be exact cause I was in therapy then, and my pdoc kept telling me there are no pills that would help me) for you, or me, and now that there are, we might as well relieve our mental pain. Post again to let us know how you are doing and what you are doing. Deb
Response:
Hi, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would welcome any other input about my case. I know eric’s mind > along with D. Diamond. Thanks > Just really scared about the incurable side effects of the schizo > drugs even in low doses > My fear of germs has escalated since starting/raising the Wellbutrin > SR. Just feel the need to wash intensely (lather up) and be concious > of what I touch and who I touch. Need to wash clothes in hot water. > Don’t like to touch anything before eating (after washing). Excessive > doubt as to the cleanliness of things, spoons plates, etc.Feel the > need to go the extra mile and then some to placate my worry. On > vacation last week in Mexico and out of the house, I am OK and just > deal with what I have available. Home life is the target of my > obsession. Related is my inability to think clearly about things. > Memory fuzzy, foggy thinking, spend lots of mental effort to make > qualitative and quantitative decisions. Don’t "know" things. What does > come thru loud and clear is my worry about the germs. I know > intellectually that germs are good to some degree and that I don’;t > live with plague patients either. Just have much heightened anxiety > about the germs.
Is your doctor aware of this since the AD was increased? > Doc has suggested Risperdal along with mylow dose of Zoloft, as way to > help my depression and help OCD. I don’t like the side effect of TD > though. I have not read too favorable reports from netizens about > these drugs. Mostly it seems these anxieties are pronounced and > require my increased vigilence. I don’t wash 25 times in a row or > check the stove over and over. Rather I am on alert all of the time to > subtle possibilities of germs and then excessively try to prevent > infection/contamination. When and if germs are encountered I get upset > but only temporarily ? I am not sure.
TD can occur but at low does it in not very likely. The newer APs have a lower incidence of TD. The treatment of OCD involves cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) alone or with a combination of CBT and medication and SSRIs. Clomid is an OCD drug which is not an SSRI. The likelihood that medication will be included depends on the severity of the OCD and the age of the patient. In milder OCD, CBT alone is the initial choice. As severity increases, medications will likely be added to CBT as the initial treatment or to use medication alone. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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<snip> First of all, does your doctor know about the increase in your OCD since starting Wellbutrin? If not, make sure you tell her/him right away. Second, I’ve found Seroquel very useful for my own somewhat obsessive thought problems, but I don’t qualify for an OCD diagnosis and my problems are all thought-related. Third, while there is a risk of TD and movement disorders with anti-psychotics, sometimes the risk is worth the result. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664
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> ECT is safer than taking neuroleptics.
Leaving aside the accuracy of this statement, is ECT usually indicated for someone with high anxiety and OCD? No point in doing ECT if it’s not likely to help. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664
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> It IS an accurate statement Fiona. If your primary diagnosis is a MOOD DISORDER > and not a PERCEPTION or psychotic disorder like schizophrenia, ECT is actually > safer in the long run than taking anti-psychotic drugs.
But this person is saying that her/his primary problems are anxiety and OCD, not a mood disorder. None of what you’ve written addresses the question of whether or not ECT is a useful or recommended treatment for someone with severe anxiety and OCD. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Leaving aside the accuracy of this statement, is ECT usually indicated >for someone with high anxiety and OCD? No point in doing ECT if it’s not >likely to help. >Fiona >– >If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not >sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. > – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664 > It IS an accurate statement Fiona. If your primary diagnosis is a MOOD DISORDER > and not a PERCEPTION or psychotic disorder like schizophrenia, ECT is actually > safer in the long run than taking anti-psychotic drugs. > ECT doesnt cause movement disorders…period. The worst side effect from ECT > usually is memory loss.
Usually, perhaps but sometimes the side effects go so much further. Going to play Russian Roulette with YOUR brain? Longterm anti-psychotics for someone who is primarily > MOOD DISORDERED is bad ju ju. Your destroying your dopamine system. People who > have unipolar major depression dont normally have high dopamine levels like > schizophrenics do to start out with, so someone whose main dx is major > depression taking neuroleptics is potentially screwing with their dopamine > system…which is VITAL for movement and locomotion, breathing, motor skills > like driving your car or writing or typing all kinds of physical things you > take for granted and dont even think about. > ECT also helps psychosis…its well documented for that.
Actually not, just a few studies based upon a review of records. ECT is indicated for depression, or when the Psychiatrist can not think of anything else. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wish I had never touched a neuroleptic. Atypicals is when I become med > resistant years ago and recently when I retried an atypical it fucked me all up > even worse. > I think atypical anti-psychotics for major depression, "rumination" and > "obsessive thoughts" is bullshit. Its just crappola the pharmaceutical > companies invented so they could sell more of their atypical > antidepressants…expand their marketing and sales to depression and not just > schizo people. Id rather just take antidepressants or go get shocked. > Many severe depressives need MORE dopamine, not less dopamine. Just look at the > effectiveness of the MAOIs…they are all extremely dopaminergic > antidepressants. Also, one of the historically most effective antidepressants > for severe depression was a potent dopaminergic antidepressant called > nomifensine. It was pulled off the market after it was here in the USA by the > FDA officially cause it was said nomifensine could cause a "rare blood > disorder." The rumor though is that it was really pulled cause the FDA thought > it was too dopaminergic. > One of the main theories of "SSRI poopout" is dopamine depletion. SSRIs and > similar meds deplete dopamine levels when taken longterm, potentially causing > "poopout" and loss of effectiveness. > And some of these fucking doctors want to put TRDepressives on atypical > antipsychotics? LOL Some of them need MORE dopamine, not less of it. > But the drug companies are scared to go there and develop dopaminergic > antidepressants, because dopamine is associated with addiction and psychosis > too much. But the reality is that some of us with depression NEED more > dopamine. > ECT increases dopamine, anti-psychotics decreases dopamine. Thats why ECT has > off label uses for treating parkinsons disease and movement disorders…even > TD. Thats a hard fact…look it up yourself on Medline. > Its the war on drugs. Its bullshit. > Eric > "Who Dares, Wins" <motto of ECT patients> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MergePsychiatryIntoNeurology/
Response:
> <snip> > First of all, does your doctor know about the increase in your OCD since > starting Wellbutrin? If not, make sure you tell her/him right away. > Second, I’ve found Seroquel very useful for my own somewhat obsessive > thought problems, but I don’t qualify for an OCD diagnosis and my > problems are all thought-related. > Third, while there is a risk of TD and movement disorders with > anti-psychotics, sometimes the risk is worth the result. > Fiona
Yes he knows about the OCD and we are lowering with some better results. Clearer thinking, less compulsion. BTW, whats the difference between "thought related disorders" and OCD ? Also, Anyone have input about Buspar ????
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> Yes he knows about the OCD and we are lowering with some better > results. Clearer thinking, less compulsion.
Glad to hear it. > BTW, whats the difference between "thought related disorders" and OCD?
I don’t have a compulsion to do anything. I have certain repetitive trains of thought, once the train is started I have a hard time stopping the cycle from completing. These thoughts can be obsessive on my part, but I don’t have any kind of compulsion to have the thoughts or (thank the Lady) to act on them. It’s akin to rolling a rock downhill, once you’ve started the rock it will keep rolling to the bottom unless something intervenes. For me, Seroquel provides some of that intervention, enough so that I (and my therapist) can stop the rock. One of the reasons that this is a problem is that these cycles are nearly all about killing myself, and I tend to get a little closer to actually trying every time I go all the way down the hill. It also provides a little buffer against my perfectionism and its related anxiety. > Also, Anyone have input about Buspar ????
Sorry, can’t help you there. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664
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