SSRIs

Question:

Hi,    I have recently started taking Anafranil (25 mg) and find it very good, I was on Paxil before and the sexual dysfunction was very bad. However even on Anafranil I still have problems maintaining an erection, is this is known problem, or should I really not be having this problem on such a low dosage. I have been on SSRI for 4 yrs and I think I have forgotten what a normal erection felt like. I would appreciate if anyone else would like to share there experience. I would strongly recommend Anafranil over Paxil for OCD. Anafranil has more unpleasant side effects like headache but they pass, and the beneficiary effects are a lot better than Paxil. MJ

Response:

1.  You’re right that anafranil may be more potent and thus a better serotonin-reuptake inhibitor than Paxil. 2.  I have rarely heard of impotence on Anafranil, and even rarer is a complaint against Anafranil at the low dose that you are taking. 3.  Perhaps you can remedy the situation with medical therapy, and here are some of them: Methylphenidate

Question:

> Hello, > I’ve just started taking Celexa, and I have a question about the > potential for (unwanted) weight gain.  Is the weight gain side effect > associated with SSRIs a consequence of a change in eating habits > induced by the drug, or directly due to a change in metabolism?  In > other words, if I carefully monitor what I eat, can I avoid gaining > weight or even be able to lose weight?

 Hi Tom, Welcome to the ng. Antidepressants may increase or decrease basal metabolic rate without changing caloric intake or they may affect hormonal changes and increase appetite. The best course of action is to increase physical activity….aerobic nonstop activity daily for at least 30 min a day. Peace, Lynda I believe it alters carbohydrate metabolism

Response:

hi Tom… the SSRI (Prozac) that I was on for years caused me to have an initial weight loss, although the loss eventually evened itself out. My Pdoc says that regarding weight gain, unfortunately it is not so much eating habits changed by the drug as it is a metabolical change (I had asked him about this too). However, Prozac and Celexa do have pharmacological differences (Celexa is a newer breed of drug), so my Pdoc may have just been giving me info specific to Prozac. Regards, compucat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I’ve just started taking Celexa, and I have a question about the > potential for (unwanted) weight gain.  Is the weight gain side effect > associated with SSRIs a consequence of a change in eating habits > induced by the drug, or directly due to a change in metabolism?  In > other words, if I carefully monitor what I eat, can I avoid gaining > weight or even be able to lose weight? > Tom L.

Response:

Hello, I’ve just started taking Celexa, and I have a question about the potential for (unwanted) weight gain.  Is the weight gain side effect associated with SSRIs a consequence of a change in eating habits induced by the drug, or directly due to a change in metabolism?  In other words, if I carefully monitor what I eat, can I avoid gaining weight or even be able to lose weight? Tom L.

Response:

Question:

I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a DXM trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? How much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take the DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it as a SSRI. Has anybody else tried this?

Response:

I dub thee "guinea pig".  If you survive (very likely), please report, and consider making a trip report, along with any adverse effects, if any. thank you, ~Matthias "My mind is glowing…"

| I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a DXM | trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once | every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? How | much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take the | DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it as a | SSRI. Has anybody else tried this? |

Response:

>I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a DXM >trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once >every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? How >much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take the >DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it as a >SSRI. Has anybody else tried this?

First of all, don’t.  Second, if you must, ONLY attempt this at very low doses of DXM.  I don’t know about when you would take the Paxil (never would be good). — Joel Crump

Response:

> I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a DXM > trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once > every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? How > much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take the > DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it as a > SSRI. Has anybody else tried this?

   This idea is totally stupid. — http://www.rfgdxm.f2s.com. My "Beginner’s Guide to DXM"- Version 2.3, and other DXM related material can be accessed from there. Revised with new section on known recreational DXM use deaths: http://www.rfgdxm.f2s.com/dxmdeaths.htm

Response:

> > I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a >  DXM > trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once > every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? >  How > much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take >  the > DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it >  as a > SSRI. Has anybody else tried this?

if you try it, make the DXM a VERY LOW dose.. and i mean DAMN LOW. when i used to take paxil, i would get a huge buzz from two tablespoons of any cough syrup, no lie. i had to stop taking cough drops during school because i would start to get fucked up after about 3 or 4. that is no exageration either.

Response:

>>I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a DXM >trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once >every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? How >much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take the >DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it as a >SSRI. Has anybody else tried this? >First of all, don’t.  Second, if you must, ONLY attempt this at very >low doses of DXM.  I don’t know about when you would take the Paxil >(never would be good).

I don’t know what the interaction between Paxil and DXM would be.  I do know from personal experience that DXM doesn’t seem to interact with Wellbutrin or Effexor.  There are so many people using Paxil and DXM and I haven’t read about any bad experiences on alt.drugs.  You get to be a guinea pig and inform us of your experience.

Response:

I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came back to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really really sucked.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter a DXM > trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this once > every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative interactions? How > much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take the > DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it as a > SSRI. Has anybody else tried this?

Response:

Hehehehehe!  The best stuff is usually the most dangerous, ‘eh? ~Matthias "My mind is glowing…"

| I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came back | to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really really | sucked. | |

| > I’m considering buying some Paxil off of some guy to inhibit 2D6 to alter | a DXM | > trip. Would this have any risk of seratonin syndrome? Would doing this | once | > every 2 weeks have any risk of SSRI activity or other negative | interactions? How | > much should I take to inhibit 2D6 as a one-time dose, 1 hour before I take | the | > DXM? I know not to take SSRIs for depression, but I’m not going to take it | as a | > SSRI. Has anybody else tried this? | > | |

Response:

> I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came back > to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really really > sucked.

    I’ll gather you didn’t read my warnings not to do that? — http://www.rfgdxm.f2s.com. My "Beginner’s Guide to DXM"- Version 2.3, and other DXM related material can be accessed from there. Revised with new section on known recreational DXM use deaths: http://www.rfgdxm.f2s.com/dxmdeaths.htm

Response:

I honstely don’t remember, this was a few years ago.  My memory’s not too clear (because of the lesions?).  All the doctors told me I was extremely lucky to have lived and recovered from the experience as well as I did.  I think my heart rate was at 170 for about 24 hours and slowly started returning to normal after that.  My eyes were also doing REMs while my lids were open. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     I’ll gather you didn’t read my warnings not to do that? > — > http://www.rfgdxm.f2s.com. My "Beginner’s Guide to DXM"- Version 2.3, > and other DXM related material can be accessed from there. > Revised with new section on known recreational DXM use deaths: > http://www.rfgdxm.f2s.com/dxmdeaths.htm

Response:

>I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came back >to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really really >sucked.

How many milligrams of DXM did you consume?

Response:

Slightly over  a gram.  Coricidin.  That didn’t help things much.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came back >to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really really >sucked. > How many milligrams of DXM did you consume?

Response:

There’s your problem.  Know we don’t know if it was the paxil, or the coricdin that did you in.  Shit, you really are lucky to be alive.  For all we know, the paxil saved your life! ~Matthias "My mind is glowing…"

| Slightly over  a gram.  Coricidin.  That didn’t help things much. | | |

| > >I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came | back | > >to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really | really | > >sucked. | > | > How many milligrams of DXM did you consume? | > | > | > | |

Response:

I imagine it was a little of everything.  Until that point I had done Coicidin many times.  Never a 4P though.  Now that I think about it, there were 2 other occaisions where I did DXM with Paxil.  They were both with pure DXM powder and not Coricidin.  They were all completely fucked up but the Coricidin + Paxil trip was just chaotic as hell and affected my motor control a lot more than the pure DXM.  For example, when I took Coricidin and Paxil, my friend said (before I got escorted to the ER) that my right leg was spasming uncontrollably.  Uh, that’s all I got right now, I’m buzzing pretty hard. > There’s your problem.  Know we don’t know if it was the paxil, or the

coricdin that did you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> in.  Shit, you really are lucky to be alive.  For all we know, the paxil saved your life! > ~Matthias > "My mind is glowing…" > | Slightly over  a gram.  Coricidin.  That didn’t help things much. > | > | > | > | > >I did a 4P on paxil.  I had the most incredible trip ever.  I also came > | back > | > >to reality in the ER.  I won’t go into detail, but that part really > | really > | > >sucked. > | > > | > How many milligrams of DXM did you consume? > | > > | > > | > > | > |

Response:

>Slightly over  a gram.  Coricidin.  That didn’t help things much.

I regularly consume 1180mg.  Sometimes I buy 2 8oz bottles of 15mg/ml syrup and consume them for a total of over 1400mg. Sometimes it barely fazes me and other time I trip balls. Stay away from Coricidin!  I have access to pure 15mg/ml syrup and 10mg/ml syrup combined with guanefeisan.

Response:

Question:

I had been on Zoloft to treat depression for a long time, many years. However, it interfered with my sleep.  I couldn’t sleep, actually.  So I told my doctor I was going to gradually reduce the dosage & stop taking it to see what happened.  Well, I have been very depressed lately & yesterday I had a panic attack at work.  Today I went back to the doctor & asked if there were any other drugs I could take that wouldn’t interfere with my sleep as much & they gave me Celexa.  Where can I find information about this drug?  Has anyone here taken it & did it make you wide awake in the middle of the night?  Thanks. Kim Miller Bow-Wow: http://members.tripod.com/allaboutdogs/ Christmas Dreams: http://members.tripod.com/joyfulchristmas/ Surf Minnesota: http://www.surfminnesota.net/ Personal Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/ ICQ: 48547727

Response:

Hello Kim. About 18 months ago I was on Celexa. I think out of all the SSRI’s I have tried, and they all make me manic, I slept the best on Celexa. You may be tired for a week or so when first taking it or increasing the dosage, but sleep for me and overall wakefulness was the best with Celexa. Right now I’m on Paxil 20 mg. from 30 mg. Mania is a horrible feeling,although productive but irritable and restless. Also on Paxil 30 mg. I lost my pleasure in a lot of things. People say they lose interest in sex or sustaining a relationship but for me I lost interest in everything but sex. I am just starting to feel like I’m getting back to the things I love, and that’s an anti-depressant in itself. Hope all goes well for you Philip

Response:

> I had been on Zoloft to treat depression for a long time, many years. > However, it interfered with my sleep.  I couldn’t sleep, actually.  So > I told my doctor I was going to gradually reduce the dosage & stop > taking it to see what happened.  Well, I have been very depressed > lately & yesterday I had a panic attack at work.  Today I went back to > the doctor & asked if there were any other drugs I could take that > wouldn’t interfere with my sleep as much & they gave me Celexa.  Where > can I find information about this drug?  Has anyone here taken it & > did it make you wide awake in the middle of the night?  Thanks.

I was on Celexa, and it made me drowsy, so I took it at night because I have insomnia. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

<snip> >wouldn’t interfere with my sleep as much & they gave me Celexa.  Where >can I find information about this drug?  Has anyone here taken it & >did it make you wide awake in the middle of the night?  Thanks. >Kim Miller

Hi Kim, I’ve been on Celexa for about 2 years now and find that it’s an excellent anti-depressent.  I have no trouble sleeping on it, though it does give me really vivid dreams that sometimes wake me up 3 or 4 times in a night, but I have no trouble getting back to sleep. Cheers, Peter.

Response:

Thanks everyone.  I am not doing so good right now & it is nice to find a supportive group like this.

Response:

Yes, Zoloft seemed to help me for a long time except for the sleeping problem.  Thanks for the info.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It appears from your post,  that Zoloft helped you for > many years except for your one problem with insomnia.. > The  idea of  trying Celexa does not seem like a bad > idea.   But no way to tell ahead of time where this > will all end up. > For your situation as described in your post,  where > you were able to take  Zoloft for many years the idea > of trying Celexa as suggested by the Doctor could turn > out OK due to the reduced side effects of the drug. But > no way to know.  If it doesn’t work, you might want to > consider going back to your "old faithful" Zoloft, and > then solve the insomnia problem some other way. > Good luck in your efforts.

Response:

I meant to say I got a prescription for it.  My sister is on it too & so far, she has no trouble sleeping but has tremors.  I don’t know how long she’s been on it, she said not too long.  My doctor listens to me too & if a drug is not helping me, I will speak up.  If a doctor doesn’t listen to me the first time, they will the second time or I’ll find one who will. >BTW  Meant to ask what you meant when you said the >doctor "gave you" Celexa. Did that mean a "free" >sample?. Or did it mean a prescription.? . Was not >aware that  Celexa has free samples so your information >could be of help on that point. >Have been wondering how come it is not prescribed more. >Whether that could be because Celexa is not a US drug, >or because it is not advertised here like the others on >television,   or whether on not the free sample >situation  might be a factor.

Kim Miller Bow-Wow: http://members.tripod.com/allaboutdogs/ Christmas Dreams: http://members.tripod.com/joyfulchristmas/ Surf Minnesota: http://www.surfminnesota.net/ Personal Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/ ICQ: 48547727

Response:

Yes, my doctor had a 7 day package. I guess the pharmaceutical company is on a hot marketing campaign for Celexa.  I am certain that it works well for other people.  My sleep wasn’t disturbed and I am listening to what Zoloft is doing to sleep patterns for others. I haven’t started the Effexor yet. Planning on doing that next Thursday.  Just needed to chill a little more after the Celexa experience. I am so pleased that this doctor listens to me. I would bolt and hide in this deep, dark hole for a while.  Not a pleasant thought, but I insist on having some control over what happens to my brain! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, Zoloft seemed to help me for a long time except for the sleeping >problem.  Thanks for the info. >There has been quite a bit of discussion lately on >Celexa and I felt that one of the things being missed >in this and  other threads,  was the superior side >effects of Celexa. >Though Celexa does have side effects and those side >effects can still be sufficient to be bad news for some >people.   >Sort of  3 situations. >Situation 1 >You like the SSRIs, they help you, get along with >things like Zoloft, and are likely to get along with >something like Celexa "too". >For you the tradeoff is if you stay on Zoloft, you have >a "sure winner:"    However,  you have already decided >that you would like to be off of Zoloft and would like >to try something else. Maybe already off it  in part. >And  have a doctor working with you ,  recommending >Celexa. >There is a  reasonable chance of having Celexa at least >working for the depression , and maybe better for you >due to lower side effects as compared to your Zoloft. >But the entire thing is like a gamble.  Might get >something better, might screw it up. >The important thing is that it should be  "your >decision" based on whatever information you can find >including what the doctor recommends.   >We  can all hope  your new try at  "Celexa" works for >you. >—– >Situation 2 >Another  thread  about Celex , where Marilyn has a >number of really awful side effects.  Both on a prior >attempt at Zoloft, and on a recent excursion into >Celexa.  In that situation she is fortunate to have a >doctor that "listens" to her    In the situation 2 >thread , she and her doctor are about to try Effexor >We can all hope that in her case "getting rid’ of the >Celexa works for her. >Situation 3 >A situation where dictator doctors try to get people to >use Celexa (or Paxil or Zoloft or other SSRIs) , for >"life" .   In spite of some very bad side effects.  And >bad enough to disrupt some  functionally of living. >And bad enough for "some"  people to want to some extra >relapse risk.     >It is too bad, because the "dictator" type of   doctors >end up in a situation of  de facto declaration of >"war",  on their own  patients.  And thereby end up >depriving them of even the medial care they might have >obtained ,  if they did not take the  "order" the >patient to do this or that  approach. >—- >So seems like it is: >Full speed ahead for you on Celexa,  and your possible >new magic bullet. With the doctors help.   And full >speed ahead on "getting rid" of Celexa for Marilyn. >And on to hopes of Effexor as her possible magic >bullet. . With her  doctor’s help.  And for  those few >(hopefully very few), situation 3 people,  it is full >speed ahead getting rid of Celexa – or equivalents. >In some case with the doctor’s help. In some others >without the doctor’s help. >BTW  Meant to ask what you meant when you said the >doctor "gave you" Celexa. Did that mean a "free" >sample?. Or did it mean a prescription.? . Was not >aware that  Celexa has free samples so your information >could be of help on that point. >Have been wondering how come it is not prescribed more. >Whether that could be because Celexa is not a US drug, >or because it is not advertised here like the others on >television,   or whether on not the free sample >situation  might be a factor. >>It appears from your post,  that Zoloft helped you for >>many years except for your one problem with insomnia.. >>The  idea of  trying Celexa does not seem like a bad >>idea.   But no way to tell ahead of time where this >>will all end up. >>For your situation as described in your post,  where >>you were able to take  Zoloft for many years the idea >>of trying Celexa as suggested by the Doctor could turn >>out OK due to the reduced side effects of the drug. But >>no way to know.  If it doesn’t work, you might want to >>consider going back to your "old faithful" Zoloft, and >>then solve the insomnia problem some other way. >>Good luck in your efforts.

Response:

Question:

The article, "Bromocriptine Treatment of Relapses Seen During Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor Treatment of Depression" mentions why bromocriptine might be effective for those who had SSRI poop-out: "Some patients relapse while taking previously effective doses of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressants (SSRI), as they do with other antidepressants.  Possible explanations of this include the loss of a nonspecific or placebo response and the possible loss of pharmacodynamic effect due to tachyphylaxis. Extrapyramidal disorders have been reported with the clinical use of fluoxetine, suggesting alterations in striatal dopaminergic neurotransmission.  A review of the literature concludes that serotonin modulates dopamine neurotransmission, although the details of this interaction are yet to be elucidated.  Further, a recent preclinical study found that chronic fluoxetine treatment caused decreases in dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens and striatum in rats of between 60 and 70% that persisted up to 14 days after fluoxetine was discontinued.  Another laboratory has published preliminary results of decreased synthesis of dopamine in rat forebrain with chronic fluoxetine treatment, consistent with this finding, although further experiments were not able to confirm the original finding.  Nonetheless, the weight of evidence to date suggests that there are important functional interactions between the ascending projections from serotonergic raphe nuclei and dopaminergic neurons in the striatum and limbic forebrain.  Therefore, the loss of SSRI’s benefit may be related to secondary deficiencies in dopamine neurotransmission caused by SSRI treatment, possibly in patients especially vulnerable because of relatively low dopaminergic tone.  We hypothesized that this might be alleviated by postsynaptic dopaminergic agonists like bromocriptine…"

Response:

I’d like to see how you do on bromocriptine or the dopaminergic MAOI’s/RIMA’s.

Response:

>>ubject: Re: SSRI’s and Dopamine Depletion >I’d like to see how you do on bromocriptine or the dopaminergic >MAOI’s/RIMA’s. >Bromocripine alone…or in combo with an SSRI >cause I will NEVER ever take an SSRI again

An ap is what you need Gem. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

> Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?   > I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I > will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc > etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month > before I get back on my feet ?

I did go off Effexor, and I don’t recommend stopping suddenly. If you’re starting from 225 mg per day, I’d certainly suggest reducing the dose over several weeks. Six months seems like quite a long time, but as usual I think it’s wiser to listen to one’s physician than to random strangers posting in Usenet. You mention that you won’t be taking any anti-depressant at all for two weeks to "clear your blood". A period like this is required when changing between some anti-depressants, but not with SSRIs such as Effexor, I believe. — Francais / English / Esperanto Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

Response:

ive gone from over 300mg to 0 straight away with no problems at all. one time i went straight off 75mg and had terrible problems.   its rather strange,  just a matter of luck i guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi all, >            I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided >to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 >mg every month. >            This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks >without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before >the other SSRI does its effects… >            I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on >another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal >symptoms during these 6 months. >            Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it >COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >(because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head >ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 >month before I get back on my feet ? >            I would appreciate comments on this. >            Thank you.

Response:

>             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it > COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >             I would appreciate comments on this.

I’ve gone ‘cold turkey’ on effexor a number of times. Some times I don’t feel a thing, and other times I get wierd, wierd delusions & hallucinations. I smell things that aren’t real. Buildings seem totally out of proportion. Sometimes get REALLY manic. Other times, it’s like I went from taking sugar pills to not taking sugar pills. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. I suggest making sure you have an ample supply of effexor on hand, if you do start getting bad side effects, so you can get back on the horse, and start tapering. HTH, B

Response:

> Id recommend finding another doctor.  You can go off Effexor much faster than > 37.5 mg a month, especially if your intention is to switch to another > antidepressant afterward.

i wouldnt go that far as calling your dr. an idiot…… most doctors are not careful enough, so on that level you are lucky. however, going on and off meds is a very individual experience and really the best guide is how YOU FEEL. if you really need to get on another med, taper a little faster if six months  seems too slow. but i would not try to ‘cram’ that isnt the way drugs work. tapering is really the best even if you taper a little faster. having a dr that errs on the side of caution is not a bad thing…. but the reality is that every situation is totally different and what really matters is how these medicines affect *the patient* at any given moment. some people are not so sensitive and need to taper  faster and get on that new med. so its really the individuals choice. the best thing a doctor can do in my opinion is listen to and carefully monitor the *individual* patient. that will work better than any formula because every single patient is a completley different case. some people are simply very sensitive to meds. some people are not so. if you dont feel anything adverse, taper a little faster. if you feel something adverse, taper a little slower. the whole idea is how you feel, right? ive known my <good> dr five years now and he lets me change dosages at will without even calling him becuase he knows that i listen to what the drugs do to me. thats the best way imo. my previous doctors did not listen to what i TOLD THEM about how i felt and how the drugs affected me, and that was a big problem. if you and your dr have a good working relationship, then you can adjust your taper according to how it affects you individually……that would be my suggestion….. it really is  easier on your brain….. (and a mind is a terrible thing to reduce to waste if you ask me) good luck…. annas holes in whats left of my reason holes in the knees of my blues odds against me been increasin’. but i’ll pull through never could read no road map and i dont know what the weather might do but i’ll drink sweet wine and see the dark star shine ive got a feelin theres no time to lose……. no time to lose….. ~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~

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Hi all,             I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 mg every month.             This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before the other SSRI does its effects…             I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal symptoms during these 6 months.             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month before I get back on my feet ?             I would appreciate comments on this.             Thank you.

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Question:

Hello all,         Does anyone in this newsgroup have experience with Zoloft or Klonopin increasing panic attack and weird dreams – at least for the first few days. If so, how long does it take to go away. I noticed that my shakes involuntarily sometimes too. I have been on Klonopin and Zoloft  for 2 nights. Thanks. Jon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > << Hello all, >         Does anyone in this newsgroup have experience with Zoloft or > Klonopin > increasing panic attack and weird dreams – at least for the first few days. > If so, how long does it take to go away. I noticed that my shakes > involuntarily > sometimes too. I have been on Klonopin and Zoloft  for 2 nights. > Thanks. > Jon > Yeah Jon, all the SSRIs like Zoloft increase anxiety during the first couple > days to several weeks of taking these meds. For some individuals the increase > of anxiety when starting SSRIs is quite severe and uncomfortable. The solution > is simple. Keep on taking the Zoloft so you can "get to the other side" so to > speak.

Just like the solution to patients who complain about ECT is to keep administering shock…. > The increased anxiety goes away after a while and gives  way to an > anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effect once the Zoloft has kicked in > good…usually after about a month. > So to put it point blank to you, you might have to suffer a little with "SSRI > activation" side effects from the Zoloft for a few weeks. Til it kicks in and > your body adjusts to the Zoloft. My advice is to keep on taking the Zoloft  no > matter how bad the panic attacks get. My guess is if you can make it to the one > month mark you will begin feeling a lot better.

Or you can respect what your body is telling you about the stuff you are forcing into it and try another drug.  Perhaps welbutrin sr, or an older drug like a MAOI.

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Question:

Does anyone know of / have any experience with drugs that suppress REM sleep? I know I fall into the category of those depressed who benefit from sleep deprivation. Sleeping less usually guarantees a happier, more centered and energetic mood the next day for me. I understand from the last time I poked around in medline that it’s the reduction in REM sleep that is thought to be therapeutic, and not necessarily sleep as a whole. I’ve gone through various SSRI’s (now on sertraline) and they didn’t have a noticeable difference on my mood. If anything they made me more lethargic. I’ve tried changing my sleeping patterns but the problem is that when waking up at the hour I want to it just seems insurmountable to get out of bed. I end up laying there and then waking up 4 hours later, feeling drained. Things that screw with sleeping patterns (i.e. alcohol) typically have a positive benefit on my mood the day after. Sleeping more usually leaves me feeling worse. If anyone can offer any help, insight or experience, I’d appreciate it. Thanks.

Response:

I’m taking 40mgs daily of Paxil, which made me very sleepy, so I started to take Mirapex, a Parkinson’s drug that is only being used recently to treat depression. I started on .25 mgs daily, went up to .5, then .75, then 1. The more I took, the more it lessened the effect of Paxil, but the more energy I had. When I hit .75 and 1 mgs a day, I was sleeping about 4 hours a night and was less tired, but my anxiety came back. I also had nightmares. I took Wellbutrin SR for a week, and I was sleeping 6 hours a night and had more energy. KC

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Question:

> Ive been finding that the blood pressure pill Ive been taking along with the > Luvox brings me down some. The ACE Inhibitor, while it does lower my blood > pressure effectively and allows me to tolerate antidepressants again, I find > that it interferes with the SSRI. I am finding that I cant "feel" the > antidepressant very good thru the ACE Inhibitor.

Blood pressure drugs, for example, Beta-blockers, which i think is what ACE inhibitors are (?) have two effects: – lowering the blood pressure – mimicing anti-anxiety drugs ( indirectly ); Maybe that interferes with the stimulating aspect of SSRI’s; If you like Eric, or anyone else, i have a super Psychoactive drug interaction tome (with 3 tables of types of interaction) from McMaster University in Canada – the best i have seen of its type – i can post it for you guys if you want. Squiggles

Response:

>……cut > I really think my real problem here is not so much that the blood pressure med > is truly screwing up the antidepressant effect from the SSRI. I think the real > problem is the antidepressant effect from the Luvox is pretty weak to begin > with and when I add in a second drug like blood pressure pills, whatever AD > effect I was getting I basically cant feel very much.

I think you are extrapolating from your subjective experience to what you know about antidepressants – and it has been my experience, that that is a dangerous and misleading thing to do.  There is no correlation between say a low feeling and a low acetylcholine or whatever, ingredient in the drug.  That is a true fallacy.  What you can do is learn the correlations between drugs and feelings from experience, but that takes a  painfully long time. > I really think the problem can probably be overcome by getting the SSRIs more > activated by adding in some atypical anti-psychotic. That always activates my > antidepressants good. But then I run into a new problem, drug interactions > between the SSRI and the anti-psychotic…I become "numb" feeling.

Oh no, again this is kitchen psychiatry. > Oh well, I will just have to do  the best I can do. Maybe try to get off the > blood pressure pills somehow.

I think you are stuck.  OK – i will tell you that i know of a case where so many new drugs were tried and they were the wrong ones, and the person had to go to an older Tri.  If i were you i would observe just what kind of depression i have, how it feels, and how others see you – do you manic states for example, and that does not mean running around like a manic chicken, but maybe reading very fast for example, or all of a sudden having the energy to do everything you could not do in a month in the past – it can take different forms – and if you can observe the kind of states and behaviour that you go through, and then take that and report it to a psychiatrist —  i think that would help.  I really think that in your case a psychiatrist would be good as it has become a problematic case. Squiggles

Response:

> <<  I really think > that in your case a psychiatrist would be good as it has become > a problematic case. >> > Geeeezzz  dont you think  by now I already know my case is a problematic case > Squiggles?  How many times  have I mentioned I have "treatment resistant" > depression on here? > Eric

Eric, Treatment resistant on the NET, but merely problematic to a real doctor.  I hope you do try that; i have not been able to convince others in such situations – rather hoped you’d be my Guinea Pig. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > << If you like Eric, or anyone else, i have a super > Psychoactive drug interaction tome (with 3 tables > of types of interaction) from McMaster University > in Canada – the best i have seen of its type – i > can post it for you guys if you want. > yeah sure post it,  Ive  had a lot of drug interactions with psych meds. Im > always interested in information concerning drug/drug interactions with psych > meds. > I really think my real problem here is not so much that the blood pressure med > is truly screwing up the antidepressant effect from the SSRI. I think the real > problem is the antidepressant effect from the Luvox is pretty weak to begin > with and when I add in a second drug like blood pressure pills, whatever AD > effect I was getting I basically cant feel very much. > I really think the problem can probably be overcome by getting the SSRIs more > activated by adding in some atypical anti-psychotic. That always activates my > antidepressants good. But then I run into a new problem, drug interactions > between the SSRI and the anti-psychotic…I become "numb" feeling. > Oh well, I will just have to do  the best I can do. Maybe try to get off the > blood pressure pills somehow.

Perhaps a consult with a nutritionist might help?  Acupuncture? I would try anything if I had your troubles, Eric. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ive been finding that the blood pressure pill Ive been taking along with the > Luvox brings me down some. The ACE Inhibitor, while it does lower my blood > pressure effectively and allows me to tolerate antidepressants again, I find > that it interferes with the SSRI. I am finding that I cant "feel" the > antidepressant very good thru the ACE Inhibitor. I also find the ACE Inhibitor > makes me so I cant focus good…Im constantly dizzy and "in a haze" all the > time now. I feel less hazy and less dizzy when I dont take  the ACE, but then I > cant tolerate the SSRIs. I didnt have this problem at all when I was just on > SSRIs. > The problem though is that without the blood presssure pill, I absolutely > cannot tolerate antidepressants anymore. But on the blood pressure pill I can > tolerate the SSRIs again, but I feel extremely dizzy and hazy and "out of it." > I dont feel much of an antidepressant effect. > Maybe I will be able to activate the SSRI more if I add in some atypical > anti-psychotic soon? I sure would like to be able to get off the blood pressure > pills cause they totally suck. > Eric

You sound like you exercise a lot, Eric.  Is their a dietary component to the high blood pressure, or perhaps is your anger the cause? Perhaps meditation, even though I know you do not like the idea might be worth trying.  I think you will agree that it’s better then ECT!

Response:

Eric, Why not try one of the newer drugs for hypertension: the Angiotension II AT1 Receptor Blockers. I take Diovan (Valsartan) in monotherapy for my blood pressure after having trouble with beta blockers and ace inhibitors. It has provided the most stable control since I began treatment … and the side-effect profile is most favourable compared to the other classes of hypertension treatment protocols. Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ive been finding that the blood pressure pill Ive been taking along with the > Luvox brings me down some. The ACE Inhibitor, while it does lower my blood > pressure effectively and allows me to tolerate antidepressants again, I find > that it interferes with the SSRI. I am finding that I cant "feel" the > antidepressant very good thru the ACE Inhibitor. I also find the ACE Inhibitor > makes me so I cant focus good…Im constantly dizzy and "in a haze" all the > time now. I feel less hazy and less dizzy when I dont take  the ACE, but then I > cant tolerate the SSRIs. I didnt have this problem at all when I was just on > SSRIs. > The problem though is that without the blood presssure pill, I absolutely > cannot tolerate antidepressants anymore. But on the blood pressure pill I can > tolerate the SSRIs again, but I feel extremely dizzy and hazy and "out of it." > I dont feel much of an antidepressant effect. > Maybe I will be able to activate the SSRI more if I add in some atypical > anti-psychotic soon? I sure would like to be able to get off the blood pressure > pills cause they totally suck. > Eric

–

Question:

Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it get better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it?  What they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy nor really sad, just kind of numb? H.

Response:

yeah i did,  all the anti-depressants kill my emotions. ive never had it get any better with time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it get >better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it?  What >they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy nor >really sad, just kind of numb? >H.

Response:

I started taking Zoloft a few months ago and I didn’t notice a flat affect with it.   Before that, I took Paxil for about 8 years with no flat affect noticed. Christine

Response:

With me it did cause some flattening-but in my case that was good as my emotional turmoil had worn me out….now that I supplement with the Wellbutrin I feel more like me, but still able to function well…. bunnyfire – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it >  get >>better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it?  What >>they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy >  nor >>really sad, just kind of numb? >>H. > I notice the opposite with SSRIs like Zoloft. Im more "flat" off meds because I > become more depressed. Severe depression causes "flatness." Numbness, > nothingness, inability to "feel" emotions, whatever youd like to call it. Go on > an SSRI and some of that ability to feel emotion comes back. Least thats been > my personal experiences. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

> Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it get > better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it? What > they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy nor > really sad, just kind of numb? > H. > I noticed a little flattening of emotion,,,but got better after a few

months.  I have been off and on Zoloft a few times….It works really well if I give it a chance…..a foot note….I could not orgasim the first month on it…..but that went away. "FORGET ABOUT IT"

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