Question:
Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? Are there any known problems with this combo? p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
If I recall correctly, LSD triggers a massive and sustained release of serotonin. As Paxil is an SSRI, I’d think the combination might be dangerous. It just might make for a cheaper/better high. I’m sure somebody’s done it…. Larry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? > Are there any known problems with this combo? > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
I think Larry’s confusing LSD’s mechanism with that of Ecstacy (MDMA). LSD does act on serotonin amongst other neurotransmitters but not by releasing a flood of serotonin. But Ecstacy does, and you would be well advised to tread very carefully when using Ecstacy on top of prescribed SSRIs. I took both Acid and mushies without any problems at all while using Paxil, which I took for about a year.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If I recall correctly, LSD triggers a massive and sustained release of > serotonin. As Paxil is an SSRI, I’d think the combination might be > dangerous. It just might make for a cheaper/better high. I’m sure somebody’s > done it…. > Larry > Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & > mushrooms? > Are there any known problems with this combo? > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
I’m sorry, but you didn’t recall correctly…that was mdma. There are some articles on these combinations (psychedelics and antidepressants) on-line on erowid (look under lsd).
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If I recall correctly, LSD triggers a massive and sustained release of >serotonin. As Paxil is an SSRI, I’d think the combination might be >dangerous. It just might make for a cheaper/better high. I’m sure somebody’s >done it…. >Larry > Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & >mushrooms? > Are there any known problems with this combo? > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
>Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? >Are there any known problems with this combo? >p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
The SSRI’s tend to reduce the effects of psychedelics. See: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml Mind Books offers publications about psychedelics;
Response:
You must be young and not scared of any kind of problem you may create for yourself. Hey, been there. I’m gonna live forever trip. Paxil + LSD. Hell, LSD will give you a panic attack. This combo could be counterproductive. Now that I know that more than 1/2 of my life is done for and I don’t have an eternity left – I realize what a danger that could be. I was young when all the Hippies were doing LSD, Shrooms, Cocaine, Heroin and Weed and at an impressionable age. Acid trips were groovy, shrooms either made you puke or were a great trip and weed, well that is what all the US draft dodgers that came to hidden places on the BC Coast grew and sold for a living. Story is that they still don’t know the war is over because they have forgotten why then went into the bushes in the first place. That may tell you something. Cheers, Carrie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? > Are there any known problems with this combo? > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
My understanding is that Ecstasy sucks up all your serotonin, more and more with each use. Then eventually one day, you will never be able to experience happiness again, and be completely untreatable because your serotonin is forever depleted. Hmmm. Close enough? Cheers, Carrie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think Larry’s confusing LSD’s mechanism with that of Ecstacy (MDMA). > LSD does act on serotonin amongst other neurotransmitters but not by > releasing a flood of serotonin. But Ecstacy does, and you would be well > advised to tread very carefully when using Ecstacy on top of prescribed > SSRIs. > I took both Acid and mushies without any problems at all while using Paxil, > which I took for about a year. > If I recall correctly, LSD triggers a massive and sustained release of > serotonin. As Paxil is an SSRI, I’d think the combination might be > dangerous. It just might make for a cheaper/better high. I’m sure > somebody’s > done it…. > Larry > > Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & > mushrooms? > > Are there any known problems with this combo? > > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
I would agree that at least some antidepressants decrease the effects of psychedelics. Four or five months ago I tried several doses of acid that many were raving about. I barely noticed it. Twice during this period I also tried shrooms and only a massive amount (the second time) gave me any shroom experience at all. I am normally fairly sensitive to psychedelics. I was taking Serzone at nearly 600 mg./day at that time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? >Are there any known problems with this combo? >p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid. > The SSRI’s tend to reduce the effects of psychedelics. See: > http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml > Mind Books offers publications about psychedelics;
Response:
True, back in the late 70’s I did quite a bit of acid and only once did I have a truly good trip. The stuff never helped me any and I flipped out on it several times, probably worsening my mental condition for a long period of time. A psychiatrist told me during that time that he figured someone with a well integrated personality could benefit from psychedelics, but those of us who are not so stable should probably avoid them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > << > You must be young and not scared of any kind of problem you may create for > yourself. Hey, been there. I’m gonna live forever trip. Paxil + LSD. > Hell, LSD will give you a panic attack. This combo could be > counterproductive. > Now that I know that more than 1/2 of my life is done for and I don’t have > an eternity left – I realize what a danger that could be. I was young when > all the Hippies were doing LSD, Shrooms, Cocaine, Heroin and Weed and at an > impressionable age. Acid trips were groovy, shrooms either made you puke or > were a great trip and weed, well that is what all the US draft dodgers that > came to hidden places on the BC Coast grew and sold for a living. Story is > that they still don’t know the war is over because they have forgotten why > then went into the bushes in the first place. > That may tell you something. > Cheers, > Carrie >> > True, recreatonal hallucinogenic drugs like LSD, PCP and ecstasy have sent more > than one formally normal person to the psych ward, to lockup for psychosis. I > wonder how many cases of schizophrenia have been activated from messing with > hallucinogenics? > There is a guy on here who claims that combining ecstasy with Effexor totally > screwed himup. Im not surprised at all. > Another drug that really can send you psychotic is that GHB crap…the date > rape drug. Repeated use of it leads to paranoia and eventual total psychosis. > Needless to say, anyone who already has mental illness problems and messes with > hallucinogenics deserves whatever they get. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm
Response:
> Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? > Are there any known problems with this combo?
SSRIs and acid should be ok. SSRIs will lessen the fx of mdma, but in my experience acid still kicks ass.
Response:
It does ‘deplete reserves’ of serotonin, so overuse will dry you up, as it were. Proving you give yourself three or four weeks between hits, you’re OK because your body gets chance to ‘restock’.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My understanding is that Ecstasy sucks up all your serotonin, more and more > with each use. Then eventually one day, you will never be able to > experience happiness again, and be completely untreatable because your > serotonin is forever depleted. Hmmm. Close enough? > Cheers, > Carrie > I think Larry’s confusing LSD’s mechanism with that of Ecstacy (MDMA). > LSD does act on serotonin amongst other neurotransmitters but not by > releasing a flood of serotonin. But Ecstacy does, and you would be well > advised to tread very carefully when using Ecstacy on top of prescribed > SSRIs. > I took both Acid and mushies without any problems at all while using > Paxil, > which I took for about a year. > > If I recall correctly, LSD triggers a massive and sustained release of > > serotonin. As Paxil is an SSRI, I’d think the combination might be > > dangerous. It just might make for a cheaper/better high. I’m sure > somebody’s > > done it…. > > Larry > > > Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & > > mushrooms? > > > Are there any known problems with this combo? > > > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->True, back in the late 70’s I did quite a bit of acid and only once did I >have a >truly good trip. The stuff never helped me any and I flipped out on it >several >times, probably worsening my mental condition for a long period of time. A >psychiatrist told me during that time that he figured someone with a well >integrated personality could benefit from psychedelics, but those of us who >are not >so stable should probably avoid them. > You are an idiot. Psychedelic drugs build nobody up, whether they are "stable" > or not. Your Psychiatrist was an idiot and should have his medical license > pulled.
While I would not suggest that people do LSD, many people made significant breakthroughs while taking LSD in therapeutic settings in experiments during the 60’s…. Psychedelics are quite powerful, and can lead to very powerful insights, or powerful bad trips…thats the rub.
Response:
DONT BE STUPID!!! IF YOUR ON ANTI-D’s THERE MUST BE A REASON EITHER U DONT HAVE THE ABLITY TO COPE WITH LIFE OR U HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHEMICALS IN YOUR BRAIN, EITHER TRY TO STOP TAKING PAXIL AND LIVE A HAPPY LIFE WITHOUT MEDICATION FOR A WHILE OR GIVE UP THE IDEA OF TAKING PSYCHEDELICS. IM ONLY TELLING U THIS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, THERE CAN BE TRERRIBLE PROBLEMS INVOLVED. 
ANDY
Response:
We can all be happy that we are not on LSD and trying to read this post. I can’t read this – my brain starts screaming out the words and echoing off my interior skull, I feel so internally abused 
. Carrie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> DONT BE STUPID!!! > IF YOUR ON ANTI-D’s THERE MUST BE A REASON EITHER U DONT HAVE THE > ABLITY TO COPE WITH LIFE OR U HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHEMICALS IN YOUR > BRAIN, EITHER TRY TO STOP TAKING PAXIL AND LIVE A HAPPY LIFE WITHOUT > MEDICATION FOR A WHILE OR GIVE UP THE IDEA OF TAKING PSYCHEDELICS. IM > ONLY TELLING U THIS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, THERE CAN BE TRERRIBLE PROBLEMS > INVOLVED. > > ANDY
Response:
> DONT BE STUPID!!! > IF YOUR ON ANTI-D’s THERE MUST BE A REASON EITHER U DONT HAVE THE > ABLITY TO COPE WITH LIFE OR U HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHEMICALS IN YOUR > BRAIN, EITHER TRY TO STOP TAKING PAXIL AND LIVE A HAPPY LIFE WITHOUT > MEDICATION FOR A WHILE OR GIVE UP THE IDEA OF TAKING PSYCHEDELICS. IM > ONLY TELLING U THIS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, THERE CAN BE TRERRIBLE PROBLEMS > INVOLVED. > > ANDY
Telling people to stop taking their prescribed antidepressant medication is both stupid and dangerous. Of course, in fairness, it is probably also both stupid and dangerous to combine antidepressants with many recreational drugs. And, on most keyboards, the caps lock key in on the left side of the keyboard, third key up. Stop Caps Abuse! Lizard
Response:
I thought I was okay until I read this email. The words are still rattling in my skull…. {Phant downs a Valium and 5Mg of Paxil then drops some acid just for kicks} Oh by the way, the reason people are prescribed SSRIs is often because they suffer a biological deficiency in prevailing serotonin levels which SSRIs correct. Then you can lead a normal life, which for some people includes recreational drugs.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> DONT BE STUPID!!! > IF YOUR ON ANTI-D’s THERE MUST BE A REASON EITHER U DONT HAVE THE > ABLITY TO COPE WITH LIFE OR U HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHEMICALS IN YOUR > BRAIN, EITHER TRY TO STOP TAKING PAXIL AND LIVE A HAPPY LIFE WITHOUT > MEDICATION FOR A WHILE OR GIVE UP THE IDEA OF TAKING PSYCHEDELICS. IM > ONLY TELLING U THIS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, THERE CAN BE TRERRIBLE PROBLEMS > INVOLVED. > > ANDY
Response:
> And perhaps in some cases the recreational drugs my inhibit or > counteract the correcting effect of the SSRI. But as along as you have > the approval of the psychiatrist perscribing you the SSRI I guess it’s > OK.:)
The problem is that halluginogens/SSRI interactions haven’t really been widely studied. I think that if you’ve suffered from mood problems or depression then you’re safer taking acid while on SSRIs than while NOT on SSRIs. Of course – in general – it’s not advisable period. ALCOHOL in my experience uis the worst thing for inhibiting SSRI medication. – Life’s a bitch
Response:
>> And perhaps in some cases the recreational drugs my inhibit or > counteract the correcting effect of the SSRI. But as along as you have > the approval of the psychiatrist perscribing you the SSRI I guess it’s > OK.:) >The problem is that halluginogens/SSRI interactions haven’t really been >widely studied.
There was one study: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml >I think that if you’ve suffered from mood problems or depression then you’re >safer taking acid while on SSRIs than while NOT on SSRIs. >Of course – in general – it’s not advisable period. >ALCOHOL in my experience uis the worst thing for inhibiting SSRI >medication. – Life’s a bitch
Mind Books offers publications about psychedelics;
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My understanding is that Ecstasy sucks up all your serotonin, more and more >with each use. Then eventually one day, you will never be able to >experience happiness again, and be completely untreatable because your >serotonin is forever depleted. Hmmm. Close enough? >Cheers, >Carrie > No, Ecstasy does cause hyper secretion of Serotonin (and to a slightly > lesser extent dopamine), and it can take some time to rebuild > reserves, but the real damage is due to the hyper secretion depleting > the neuron’s energy reserves reducing it ability to repair free > radical/oxygen damage. It also makes it difficult for the neuron to > regulate ion exchange across the membrane and maintain internal > calcium ion (C++) balance. > BTW-anyone stupid enough to do E probably shouldn’t drink anything > containing Aspartame (Nutrasweet), which is made from Phenylalanine an > amino acid precursor of Dopamine. Increased Dopamine expression seems > to be necessary to produce physical neuron damage – damage that long > term studies suggest is irreversible. > Ian
Thanks for info, Ian. In addition, for anyone on MAOIs – same deal with the Aspartame. I always forgot that on MAOIs. Mind you the amount you generally use is small, but what about someone like me that will drink 5 diet cokes a day? Carrie
Response:
> Antidepressants (ADs) can affect the body’s response to Ecstasy / > MDMA. Mixing some ADs and MDMA (and indeed most of the > hallucinogens) is very risky and some combinations can be fatal.
Are there any fatal combinations of ADs and LSD? Just wondering. — The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this may be true.
Response:
> Thanks for info, Ian. In addition, for anyone on MAOIs – same deal with the > Aspartame. I always forgot that on MAOIs. Mind you the amount you > generally use is small, but what about someone like me that will drink 5 > diet cokes a day?
I’ve never understood why anyone would drink even ONE diet coke in a day. — The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this may be true.
Response:
My girlfriend takes Effexor. It’s an antidepressant. For some reason she seems to have a very negative and grouchy effect with X but we’ve tripped plenty of times off of shrooms and acid… not at the same time though. I also recently starting taking an antideprtessant… Serzone and I have yet to try it on X but I haven’t had any problems with shrooms or LSD either. I’m not an expert… just my observations.
> Anyone have any experiences being on meds and taking psychedelics & mushrooms? > Are there any known problems with this combo? > p.s. – I’m on Paxil and want to try shrooms and acid.
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Response:
> Are there any fatal combinations of ADs and LSD? Just wondering.
No, not fatal or physically harmful ones. But the AD’s can affect the level of effects, up or down; see: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml Mind Books offers publications about psychedelics;
Response:
>Its a lot more complicated than that. Below is something I wrote last >year for another group which explains what happens, and can happen >even with the very first dose.
Unfortunately, you did not include dose-related information. Dose makes a huge difference. For example, Vollenweider has run studies giving about 120 mg of MDMA to human subjects who had never had it, and did not find any loss of 5HT transporters (as so no loss of 5HT axons). >…if you wanted to design a drug specifically to boost the incidence of >emotional disorders (and to a lesser extent psychotic illnesses), you >would be hard pressed to better Ecstasy and it’s chemical cousins.
This is complete bullshit. MDMA, used in psychiatric circles, has had many wonderful results. There’s no evidence that MDMA has caused any psychotic illness, or emotional disorders other than temporary depression the week after using it, and a limited number of anxiety disorders related to PTSD. >To compound their effects the methamphetamines
Lumping all methamphetamines together is irresponsable. Their dose-related neurotoxic effects are different, and the mental consequences of use are different. >these effects result in long-term Serotonin depletion[2b,5] within >affected neurons, and in some cases near complete exhaustion.
Many of these "studies" are highly biased, using much higher doses than most humans in animals, or comparing people who "party hearty" every weekend with graduate students. You have to carefully examine each study for flaws. There are some relatively accurate studies which show certain kind of damage or problems. It’s odd you did not mention the episodic memory problems, as several studies have shown these. Though most of these studies suffer from design problems, some (especially the Zakzanis paper in Neurology earlier this year) are credible. Whether this happens with people taking moderate doses (120 mg or so) of MDMA is still an open question. Zakzanis found significant memory problems (for some kinds of tasks but not others) in a group taking an average dose of 175 mg 2.4 times a month, but the dose range was 50 to 300 mg per episode, up to 15 times per month. Since all studies show damage is dose-related, his subjects showing memory problems could be only the ones taking the higher doses. One reason this seems probable is that blood levels of MDMA are not linear with dose; above a threshold (which is above the moderate 120 mg dose) blood levels rise more rapidly than linear with increasing MDMA doses. >The result can be the death of axon terminals and their >synapses,[1a,2a,5,7] and even of the neurons themselves. While >the degree of structural damage to cells appears to correlate to >the degree of drug use,[8] significant, long-term damage can >occur from a single dose.[2a]
Sure, death could occur from a single dose, if someone ate a few ounces of MDMA! Even Ricarte, one of the most heavily biased researchers, has said most recreational users are probably not having significent levels of damage. Dose makes a huge difference. From the scientific evidence, it appears a single dose of around 120 mg (in average weight people), not repeated often (say, no more than once a month), probably does not cause axon loss. However, the neurotoxic threshold is probably not much above this level, even two of these doses (240 mg) could be reaching the neurotoxic level. >A study spanning 7 years[9] has shown that while some, limited, >improvement did occur, abnormal Serotonergic nerve patterns were >still evident at the end of the 7 year period.
In animals given relatively high doses. > A number of psychiatric complications[3,10] may result from >this assault on Serotonin neurons, including depression and panic >disorder (PD).
Short-term depression the week after is relatively common; long- term depression or panic disorder is rare. Really, mixing in common problems with uncommon ones is misleading. >Hyper-secretion of Dopamine may lead to the onset >of Schizophrenia, a psychotic illness thought to result from >excess Dopamine expression in particular brain regions.
You are saying MDMA can cause schizophrenia? That’s rediculous. >While the onset of these disorders tends to become more likely with >prolonged use, it is possible to develop a disorder such as PD from >the first dose.[11]
Possible, but very unlikely. Any intense, traumatic experience can cause panic disorder or other anxiety disorders (such as hypervigalence), sometimes to the elvel of PTSD. But these intense mental traumas are rare with MDMA. >The extent of the cell damage may be increased by relying on some >of the ’safety’ advise being given to the unwary. For example, as >the Serotonin hyper-secretion properties of Ecstasy etc has >become common knowledge, some have advised that taking either of >the Serotonin precursors L-Tryptophan (L-T) and 5-HTP before and >during drug use will prevent the harmful effects.
5HTP does reduce neurotoxicity, at lerast in animals. "Attenuation of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) induced neurotoxicity with the serotonin precursors tryptophan and 5-HTP", Sprague JE, Huang X, Kanthasamy A, Nichols DE Life Sci, 1994; 55(15):1193-8 >Unfortunately, as I’ve shown above, the neuron damage seems to result >not from the excess Serotonin production, but from the energy >depletion within cells that this causes.[1a,6]
This is just a theory, and the fact that 5-HTP does reduce neurotoxic effects does not support your theory. The leading theory is that some dopamine (or an oxidized form) enters the 5-HT axons through the transporter (because of how MDMA affects the transporter). Some anti-oxidants (vitamin C, alpha-linoleic acid?) have been shown to reduce neurotoxicity in animal experiments. >Furthermore, Serotonin hyper-secretion activates an inhibition mechanism >that significantly slows L-T conversion to Serotonin.[3,13]
It does reduce the TP to 5-HTP metabolism. Another ref for this is: "In vitro reactivation of rat cortical tryptophan hydroxylase following in vivo inactivation by MDMA", Stone DM, Hanson GR, Gibb JW, J Neurochem, 1989; 53(2):572-81 But that’s why 5-HTP is useful, the 5-HTP to 5-HT (serotonin) conversion is not affected. >Most users also seem unaware that both precursors can be >dangerous in their own right. A L-Tryptophan contaminant – Peak X >- was responsible for a number of deaths in the late 1980s, and >much, ongoing, suffering by the thousands affected by this >substance. Peak-X has also been found in both naturally derived >and chemically synthesised 5-HTP.
But this is very rare! 5-HTP is widely used aound the world as an antidepressant, and this "Peak-X" contaminant has not caused any problems that I have heard of. Again, you are implying there is a significant risk here, when the risk is really very low. >Many users have also been advised to consume lots of fluids to >combat the hypothermia and dehydration that Ecstasy may produce.
Indeed, about 25% of the few deaths attributed to MDMA were caused by drinking too much water, leading to hyponatremia (low sodium levels). People dancing or otherwise sweating on MDMA should add some salt to their water, or eat some salty snacks. (A sports drink such as Gatorade is even better.) >Often they are given drinks containing the sugar substitute >Aspartame. This is derived from the amino acid Phenylalanine – a >precursor of the neurotransmitters Dopamine and Noradrenaline >(Norepinephrin). As increased Dopamine expression appears to be >necessary to provoke oxidation injury to neurons,[14] this is >probably not a wise move, although more research is required.
It’s doubtful aspartame ingestion leads to excess dopamine effects. The effects of increased dopamine actions are pretty obvious, and aspartame is very widely used. >Antidepressants (ADs) can affect the body’s response to Ecstasy / >MDMA. Mixing some ADs and MDMA (and indeed most of the >hallucinogens) is very risky and some combinations can be fatal.
It depends on the class of AD. MAOI AD’s can be very dangerous if combined with MDMA. SSRI’s tend to only block the effects, though they probably also reduce the neurotoxicity. Though there has been some speculation that taking MDMA while on an SSRI could lead to enough excess serotonin to cause serotonin syndrome, in practice this does not appear to be a real problem, at least using rational levels of MDMA. There’s more on the problems of AD’s and psychedelics at: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml You really need to learn to separate the real problems that a significant number of MDMA users are probably getting (axon loss and memory problems at higher doses and frequencies) from random theories and rare effects. My apologies for not having time to post more references. Mind Books offers publications about psychedelics;
Response:
))) > yes… i think the fact that alcohol is a depressant is the main thing – > as you know i’ve had a low this week, so it was triggering off things > that were already there.