SSRIs

Question:

I am on xanax & zoloft already. Today my Dr also gave me risperdal. She almost went with lithium. Does anyone know anything about risperdal?

Response:

Hi, > I am on xanax & zoloft already. Today my Dr also gave me risperdal. She > almost went with lithium. Does anyone know anything about risperdal?

Risperdal is an newer antipsychotic medication. It is used for psychotic symptoms that may accopnay a manic episode. MS are the first line treatment for people with BP illness. ADs alone have the potential of triggering mania. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!

Response:

I have been on and off Risperidal for almost 3 years. It really helps me. It’s not as sedating as the other anti-psychotics, and for me anyways, I don;t feel lke a zombie(though sometimes I’d like to).

Response:

>Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on >xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic >attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs >are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a >difference?

Zoloft is a SSRI antidepressant, but one that is (typically: YMMV) mildly sedating. It also has some effects on panic. It takes a while to take hold, therefore the Xanax. I’ve been on that combination at one time in the past.

Response:

Try the County, I don’t know which one your in, but they pay all for me and I get a fee waiver for psych. appts., therapy and meds. They rarely say no to anyone.  USUALLY!!!

Response:

Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a difference? Also, I do not work b/c of my panic attacks. I have not worked in 6yrs b/c i had a child and stayed home with him and since Aug 97 my attacks are so bad i CANNOT work. I have no insurance & do not qualify for state & fed. help because I live with my fiance. He makes little so we cannot afford ins. Someone told me to try ssi. Would they help? I have only been on meds for 3 weeks.

Response:

                    DE  DIGITALE  STAD Op 26 Feb 1999, MandMandM3 schreef: > Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on > xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic > attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs > are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a

Zoloft is an SSRI. SSRIs are useful in panic disorders. However it will take 3 to 8 weeks before benefit of SSRIs in panic disorder may be noticed. Xanax is a benzodiazepine, they are useful in panic disorders and work immediately. Because SSRIs can actually cause a slight worsening of symptoms in the beginning of therapy, your doc might have decided to give Xanax as well, so overcoming this first period will be easier, and the effects of the therapy are noted faster. Benzodiazepines are also the basis of treatment of panic disorders, and you’ve received the famous SSRI combo for panic disorder. It’s quite common, my guess is that if this proves to be not effective enough after dosage adjustments and all he will add buspirone (buspar), fenfluramine, trazodone or nefazodone. The first of those being the more likely. > difference? Also, I do not work b/c of my panic attacks. I have not worked in > 6yrs b/c i had a child and stayed home with him and since Aug 97 my attacks are > so bad i CANNOT work. I have no insurance & do not qualify for state & fed. > help because I live with my fiance. He makes little so we cannot afford ins. > Someone told me to try ssi. Would they help? I have only been on meds for 3

It might still take some weeks before the benefits of the treatment become apparent, and maybe even more if the meds need to be adjusted. Be patient, panic disorder is treatable. Taking your meds spaced over the day, and drinking no or almost no coffee can increase the effectiveness of treatment. > weeks.

GreetinX & Good Luck !        X        X       Bas p.s: There’s a newsgroup called alt.support.anxiety.panic which is on this type of disease. I consider you welcome here, but they might be able to give you more support.

Response:

Question:

Of course, the biggest problem about cross posting to so many groups is that you increase the amount of people available for mud slinging once it starts and as this very post shows, some of the posts go way off track to the original question.  I suspect this thread will run and run and run….. Regards, Andrew Austin. — NLP, Neurology, Schizophrenia:  http://www.23NLPeople.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hello, > > Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact > that > I posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. > It’s cross-posted; that’s bad enough. > Where is there a law against cross-posting? How is that "bad enough"? It’s > true that spammers and trolls often crosspost to many unrelated newsgroups. > It’s quite clear, as this guy said, that what he wrote is not spam or a > troll post, but some serious questions, and all the NGs he posted it to were > related to the topic. I don’t see anything wrong with that. What’s "bad" > about that? > > If you look at the list of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are > related to the topic. > I’m posting from a depression group, not a medication group. > Are you saying that a post about the medication Prozac, certainly one of the > major anti-depressants, is not relevant to a depression group?  Please > explain. Do you see any newsgroup he posted to, to which the topic of > "Prozac" is not relevant? Is this the first time someone discussed a > medication on the depression group? > > I don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone > reading > who could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting > to > several related newsgroups. > You’re too lazy to do any research. > Asking people to share their experiences with a medication is being "lazy"? > Somehow, I don’t get that connection. Discussion with others = laziness? > > If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. > I’ll do as I please, just as you have done. > Of course, you can do as you please. You can go stand on your head now for > an hour, if you wish. He was just making a request. Of course he cannot > force you to do anything. Is there something wrong with his making a > request, regarding how his message is replied to? > > I will probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one > you are reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might > never > see it. > You post to a NG you don’t read and you reckon you’re not a troll? > I don’t see anything in his post that has the slightest connection to being > a troll. Serious questions, related to all the newsgroups he posted to. > Nothing vaguely related to trollery in that. Trolldom has nothing to do with > what or how many newsgroups one posts to, but has to do with the content of > what is written. > > Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, > so do not reply via e-mail. > You’re such a man. Mashed email = troll. > Oh, you’re being macho now, insulting his manhood? A real man prints his > real e-mail address to his newsgroup posts, ensuring that he’ll get tons of > spam? A lot of people use fake e-mail addresses in their newsgroup posts, > including myself, as that’s the surest way to avoid spam, as spammers have > programs that "harvest" e-mail addresses from newsgroups. You sure have a > strange definition of what is a "troll". > There are plenty of real trolls on Usenet, especially on the mental health > newsgroups, people who ruin those NGs, filling them with trollery, so it’s > often hard to find the real discussions there. Trolls really wreck many > newsgroups. Better to spend your time fighting the real trolls, rather than > going after someone who starts a serious and relevant discussion. > (Actually, the e-mail address that you use here on the NG > not saying it isn’t, just that it doesn’t look like one to me. Is there a > real domain called "absinthebri.com"? If you yourself are using a fake > e-mail address (as many do on Usenet, to avoid spam and troll e-mails, > nothing wrong with it), why are you slamming him for doing the same thing?) > > Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs above in your reply. > Don’t tell people what to do. > Again, he made a request, he did not "tell you what to do". Yes Brian, you > are free to do as you wish. You are a free man. No one is "telling you what > to do". > > Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion of the issues > raised. > You post, I reply; you get what you get. You have shown Usenet no respect > whatsoever by cross-posting your troll instructions. > There is no Usenet law against cross-posting. And nothing at all trollish in > what he wrote. Again, if you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real > ones to go after. > If you are concerned about your medication see your doctor. You are > unlikely > to get medically qualified advice here (however valid the personal > experiences may be). > Of course, only one’s personal doctor can decide what medication is right > for the patient. That said, it’s understandable that people want to share > ideas, discuss experiences, etc. Otherwise, what are these medical > newsgroups for? You could say that to anyone writing to a medical newsgroup, > asking to hear about other’s experiences–"don’t write here, see your > doctor". What are newsgroups for then, IYO, if asking about other’s > experience with a condition, treatment, medication, etc. is taboo? > I think this guy (Edgar) would have been better off if he had skipped the > part at the beginning, in which he explained why he was posting his message > to several NGs.  You might have then paid more attention to what he was > writing about. (And I see another guy answered him by only quoting that > part, and then asking "What was the question?", I guess not wanting to read > farther than that.) So, by trying to explain the cross-posting at the > beginning, some people make that the issue, rather than reading farther to > see what the man was trying to discuss. He (Edgar) should have just started > with the issue, rather than starting with an apology/explanation for > cross-posting, for which there was really no need to apologize. Or, he > should have at least left that explanation to the end, rather than at the > beginning, as it seems some people couldn’t get further than that. > Brian, you seem to be in a bad mood today. There’s really no reason to take > it out on this guy, for asking about people’s experiences with a medication. > If you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real ones out there. > I hope there are others who really give this guy (Edgar) their input into > his questions, that this discussion doesn’t degenerate into a fight about > cross-posting.

Response:

> But in > general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on > as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner?

They usually start immediately and become less after 2 weeks or so. MB

Response:

>If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem >knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for >you.

I know that I replied to you on one group only and I’d be willing to bet others did too.  Many of us feel uncomfortable posting to 10-15 ng’s.  My personal, unsolicited suggestion to you would be to check the ng’s you posted to.  You might find some valuable replies from people who really cared and took the time to write, yet didn’t cross-post. (About this one –  I don’t know what group the original poster is reading and don’t have his email address – btw, you can avoid spam and help us write to you by adding little things to your email address that would make your real address obvious to us.  I never get spam the way I’ve got my return address set up yet I do get very nice mail from people on my ng.) – Jen

Response:

> I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while > spamming 11 groups.

I guess you have an unusual definition of the word "spam". From what I understand the meaning of the word to be, in its Internet (not canned meat) usage, it refers to unsolicited e-mail ads. That is what the anti-spam fake e-mail address for newsgroup posting protects from, as the spammers get their e-mail spam lists from newsgroups. Was there any advertising in what I wrote? I was not selling Prozac, just asking questions about it, wanting to discuss it. I explained my reason for posting to several newsgroups, that all could have some relation to the topic of Prozac. Cross-posting does not equal "spam". Spam is unsolicited unwanted bulk advertising on the Internet. > Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect > profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous > positive benefits.

If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for you. (I think I asked this in another post already (not the original one), but don’t know if you saw it.) From what I have heard and read, including from my psychiatrist, it takes a while for one to start experiencing the positive benefits of Prozac, perhaps even 4 to 6 weeks. My question is: if one is also going to experience some negative side effects of Prozac, such as those discussed, will that happen at about the same time? Will that also take weeks? Or would one experience the side effects sooner-immediately, a few days, one week? Of course, I know that medications affect each individual differently, so there is no way to give a definitive answer regarding how long it might take me to feel negative side effects of the medication, if I am going to feel any. But in general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner? Thank you for your input.

Response:

>Dave, you obviously have a strong bias against medications for psychiatric >problems.

Obvious because I’m honest? Frankly, psychiatric treatment usually isn’t any better, although CBT is a vast improvement over psychoanalysis/ECT/leeches. >I don’t know whether or not Prozac might or might not help Edgar, >and what the side effects might be like for him, I’ve never taken it myself, >but I do know that a lot of people have been significantly helped by such >medications, their lives turned around. I don’t think your standpoint >automatically against such medications is correct.

I don’t think your assumption that I’m automatically against such medications is correct either.  But it’s not the first time I’ve been accused of it. > Almost guaranteed to.  It’s pretty obvious that your immune system is > messed up, with Adderall and Prozac being stimulants, it’s not going to > help. >Prozac is an anti-depressant, not a stimulant.

No.  Prozac is a SSRI. You see, depression in DSM-IV doesn’t mean depression any more.  The criteria have tended towards the symptoms of people that Prozac might actually help. >I’ve never heard that either type has an effect on the immune system. >Show us your source for either drug affecting the immune system.

It’s common sense really.  You can start with Candace Pert’s Molecules of Emotion: "every neuropeptide receptor we could find in the brain is also on the surface of the human monocyte." > You do know that Adderall is Speed, right?  The exact same Speed that > young people buy illegally, possess illegally, take in clubs illegally > and often get addicted to. >The stimulant dosages used for treatment of ADD are not at all comparable to >the dosages used by illegal recreational speed users.

Please define "not at all comparable". > I once took 400mg of Prozac.  Was fun for about an hour and a half.  You > see, it peaks after an hour.  And yet doctors tell you to take it for > 4-6 weeks.  No-one knows why. >Sounds like you are one of those recreational drug users. People don’t take >Prozac for "fun", but because it has been prescribed to them for serious >problems. And no one takes 400 mg of it at once! That’s an incredible dose. >Lucky you’re alive!

You’re right, it was 40mg.  Maximum recommended dosage is 80mg. >Yes, doctors do "know why" they prescribe medicines for the length of time they >prescribe it for.

But you don’t?  Go ask one – I’d love to hear their answer. > Dave (professional PSYCHO-therapist), http://www.deep-trance.com >You are a professional "psycho-therapist"? Hard to believe.

Like I care what you believe. >(I don’t have time to look at the web site now.) (Easier to believe the part before the >hyphen, as one might have to be "psycho" to take 400 mg of Prozac.) What are >your credentials as a psychotherapist? Is your method of therapy to put >people in a "deep trance" (from the name of your web site). Are you a >hypnotist?

I could explain it to you, but that would take a long time and you probably still wouldn’t get it.  No offence – but I’ve tried that before. No, I don’t like pushing my authority and I wouldn’t wish anyone to pander to it. The only people I give credence to are those who are able to justify what they say with common sense. Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com Goodbye freedom: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25891.html

Response:

> Nothing "brave" or "non-brave" about it. It is effective in avoiding spam, > as spammers harvest e-mail addresses from newsgroups. I do it too.

I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while spamming 11 groups. > Prozac to the ADD med), it doesn’t sound like he is suicidal,

Patients usually don’t volunteer this information, particularly over the Internet.  And patients can *become* suicidal after starting an SSRI. There have been lawsuits in the US over it, so I suspect that doctors there are prone to ‘do something’ to try to avoid it. > Just to point out, that when you say something like "the side effects of > Prozac are trivial, compared to the effects of serious depression, suicidal > behavior, etc.", that probably is relevant to many people, but perhaps not > to this guy, if he doesn’t have those conditions, and doesn’t know whether > the Prozac will really help him at all with the organizational problems, > etc. So his weighing of the side effects might be different than with > someone who is suffering from serious depression.

I doubt it.  He hasn’t experienced any of those side effects yet.  Wait till he’s on the medication and then ask him how he feels. > What do you mean by "well liked because of its side effects"?

Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous positive benefits.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact that I >posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. If you look at the list >of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are related to the topic. I >don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone reading who >could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting to >several related newsgroups. >If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. I will >probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one you are >reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might never see it. >Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, so >do not reply via e-mail. Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs >above in your reply. Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion >of the issues raised. >A few days ago I was prescribed Prozac by my psychiatrist. I just picked it >up at the pharmacy today, and  haven’t yet taken it, >Just for some background–I’m male, 50 years old, this is the first time >I’ve been prescribed any kind of anti-depressant. Just recently I was >diagnosed with ADD (non-hyperactive type-difficulty organizing, staying on >task, getting things done, etc.) and have been taking Adderall for a month. >The doctor is now adding Prozac to it, thinking that my problem might be >partially caused by anxiety. >When he first prescribed it for me on Wednesday, he specified the brand name >Prozac on the prescription, 10 mg tablets. One week taking a half tablet >once per day, then 1 tablet for the next week, 1

Question:

BULLSHIT Joe

Response:

> BULLSHIT > Joe

Therapy can be very good. I know because I have tried it. I know about this sort of thing. Really.

Response:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Therapy is at least as effective in treating depression as drugs are, and its effects last longer, scientists said on Thursday in a report sure to annoy drug companies that make millions selling antidepressants. The cost of therapy is about the same as drugs short-term, and cheaper over the long term, the researchers told a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association. "This will be a surprising, controversial finding for many psychiatric professionals," Robert DeRubeis, chair of the psychology department at the University of Pennsylvania, said in a statement. "Most believe quite strongly in the efficacy of medication, and psychiatric treatment guidelines call unequivocally for medication in cases of severe depression." An estimated 20 million Americans suffer from depression, which can lead to suicide. DeRubeis and Steven Hollon of Vanderbilt University in Nashville studied 240 patients with depression to see if drugs or therapy worked better. "The question that has most often been asked in studies is, ‘What gets people better faster?"’ DeRubeis said. "We asked, ‘What will keep depression away over the long term?"’ Their patients got one of three treatments — 16 weeks of cognitive therapy, 16 weeks of antidepressants plus visits to a professional, or 16 weeks of placebo pills plus visits. Cognitive therapy is a type of talking-out treatment in which patients are helped to question their negative views of themselves. "By the 16-week post-treatment assessment, response rates were identical (57 percent) for both pharmacotherapy and cognitive therapy," the researchers said in their report. "Thus, these findings suggest that cognitive therapy may work more slowly in effecting change than does pharmacotherapy, but that by the end of a four-month course of treatment, patients who receive cognitive therapy fare as well as those who receive pharmacotherapy." Most — 75 percent — of the patients who got cognitive therapy avoided a relapse, compared to 60 percent of patients on medication and 19 percent of those receiving a placebo pill, they told the group’s annual meeting in Philadelphia. "These results suggest that even after termination, a brief course of cognitive therapy may offer enduring protection comparable to that provided by ongoing medication," DeRubeis said. THERAPY IS CHEAPER The 16 weeks of drugs cost an average of $2,590, compared with $2,250 for cognitive therapy, the researchers said. Over time, therapy may prove to be cheaper because patients have to continue taking antidepressants, the researchers said. "Some proponents of medication for severely depressed patients have suggested that cognitive therapy is impractical on the basis of cost," DeRubeis said. "Our study indicates that isn’t true, especially over the long term." The study is a sharp contrast to dozens of others being presented at the meeting that show the efficacy of one antidepressant over another. The market for antidepressants is huge — and profitable. Eli Lilly and Co. earned nearly $2 billion in 2001 from Prozac and Sarafem, two brand names of a drug known generically as fluoxetine used to treat depression and severe premenstrual syndromes. The study is not the first to challenge the assumptions underlying the use of drugs to treat depression. The idea behind the drugs is to change levels of brain chemicals — in the case of fluoxetine and related drugs the targeted chemical is serotonin, linked with mood. But two recent reports suggest that placebos not only work as quickly as drugs short-term, but affect the same areas of the brain.

Response:

BULLSHIT Joe

Response:

> BULLSHIT > Joe

Therapy can be very good. I know because I have tried it. I know about this sort of thing. Really.

Response:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Therapy is at least as effective in treating depression as drugs are, and its effects last longer, scientists said on Thursday in a report sure to annoy drug companies that make millions selling antidepressants. The cost of therapy is about the same as drugs short-term, and cheaper over the long term, the researchers told a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association. "This will be a surprising, controversial finding for many psychiatric professionals," Robert DeRubeis, chair of the psychology department at the University of Pennsylvania, said in a statement. "Most believe quite strongly in the efficacy of medication, and psychiatric treatment guidelines call unequivocally for medication in cases of severe depression." An estimated 20 million Americans suffer from depression, which can lead to suicide. DeRubeis and Steven Hollon of Vanderbilt University in Nashville studied 240 patients with depression to see if drugs or therapy worked better. "The question that has most often been asked in studies is, ‘What gets people better faster?"’ DeRubeis said. "We asked, ‘What will keep depression away over the long term?"’ Their patients got one of three treatments — 16 weeks of cognitive therapy, 16 weeks of antidepressants plus visits to a professional, or 16 weeks of placebo pills plus visits. Cognitive therapy is a type of talking-out treatment in which patients are helped to question their negative views of themselves. "By the 16-week post-treatment assessment, response rates were identical (57 percent) for both pharmacotherapy and cognitive therapy," the researchers said in their report. "Thus, these findings suggest that cognitive therapy may work more slowly in effecting change than does pharmacotherapy, but that by the end of a four-month course of treatment, patients who receive cognitive therapy fare as well as those who receive pharmacotherapy." Most — 75 percent — of the patients who got cognitive therapy avoided a relapse, compared to 60 percent of patients on medication and 19 percent of those receiving a placebo pill, they told the group’s annual meeting in Philadelphia. "These results suggest that even after termination, a brief course of cognitive therapy may offer enduring protection comparable to that provided by ongoing medication," DeRubeis said. THERAPY IS CHEAPER The 16 weeks of drugs cost an average of $2,590, compared with $2,250 for cognitive therapy, the researchers said. Over time, therapy may prove to be cheaper because patients have to continue taking antidepressants, the researchers said. "Some proponents of medication for severely depressed patients have suggested that cognitive therapy is impractical on the basis of cost," DeRubeis said. "Our study indicates that isn’t true, especially over the long term." The study is a sharp contrast to dozens of others being presented at the meeting that show the efficacy of one antidepressant over another. The market for antidepressants is huge — and profitable. Eli Lilly and Co. earned nearly $2 billion in 2001 from Prozac and Sarafem, two brand names of a drug known generically as fluoxetine used to treat depression and severe premenstrual syndromes. The study is not the first to challenge the assumptions underlying the use of drugs to treat depression. The idea behind the drugs is to change levels of brain chemicals — in the case of fluoxetine and related drugs the targeted chemical is serotonin, linked with mood. But two recent reports suggest that placebos not only work as quickly as drugs short-term, but affect the same areas of the brain.

Response:

Question:

Prozac Truth How to taper off medication   Quitting ssris and psychiatric medication must be done by tapering off, very slowly. Step by step instructions found on this Web Site.   How to Taper Off Prozac, Sarafem, Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and other Psychiatric Medication Read testimonials of people that have quit psychiatric medication with this method. Click Here (This page also includes recent feedback from people tapering off medication with this method) I want to hear from you. If you are using this method or not, it does help to have someone to talk with during withdrawal. Click Here to send e-mail. A change in your diet can make a change in how you feel. Click here to visit a common sense Web Site by, Dr. Hugh Mann, M.D. If you plan to change your diet while tapering, do so mildly. If you smoke or drink coffee, first taper off the medication before you quit. Your metabolism plays a major role during tapering and detox. Take the time to read Dr. Mann’s information. How to Taper Step-by-Step Recommendation Click the text below that applies to you situation: Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Currently using medication and have already started to taper You have already quit taking medication but are suffering from side effects Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Inform your doctor you wish to discontinue the medication Begin replenishing the intracellular glutathione levels in the body. This needs to be done before you begin to taper. a) Begin by increasing intracellular levels of glutathione for at least one full week before beginning the taper. Longer if necessary. I have received information from a physician that he is having people stay at this step for 8 weeks before tapering. Each individual is different. I do not feel that an arbitrary amount of time on this step is warranted. What has shown to be the most effective is staying on this step for at least one full week or until most of your side effects are gone or nearly gone AND YOU FEEL VERY STABLE. You should not begin to taper off the medication until all or nearly all of your current side effects are gone. Getting yourself very stable before tapering is critical. If you are getting the

Question:

It wreaks ethically and the sheer volume of the ads, ad after ad, is disgusting, pushing the newest and most expensive drugs, driving up the cost of heath care for everybody.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> why is this so bad? isn’t it medication used to help people? it’s not > crack… > it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our media, > but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. > Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, and > ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! > Namaste > J > > Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your > stomach, > > no?? > > > do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > > > Thats incredible… > > > J > > >>> Hi folks, > > >>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the > US > > > or > > >>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also > using > 2g > > > of > > >>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since > taking > > > B5 > > >>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > > > muscles > > >>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from > this > > > symp- > > >>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is > this > > > even > > >>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine > anti-depressant > > > ? > > >> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > > >> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > > >> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain > blood > > > barrier" > > >> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and > or > > > drugs.In > > >> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, > since > > > those > > >> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > > >> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be > smart > to > > > talk > > >> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > > > encountered. > > >> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts > about > > >> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem > than > > > B5. > > >> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

why is this so bad? isn’t it medication used to help people? it’s not crack…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our media, > but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. > Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, and > ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! > Namaste > J > Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your > stomach, > no?? > > do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > > Thats incredible… > > J > >>> Hi folks, > >>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the > US > > or > >>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using > 2g > > of > >>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since > taking > > B5 > >>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > > muscles > >>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this > > symp- > >>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this > > even > >>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine > anti-depressant > > ? > >> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > >> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > >> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood > > barrier" > >> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or > > drugs.In > >> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, > since > > those > >> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > >> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart > to > > talk > >> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > > encountered. > >> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts > about > >> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem > than > > B5. > >> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

Did you mean "reeks?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It wreaks ethically and the sheer volume of the ads, ad after ad, is > disgusting, pushing the newest and most expensive drugs, driving up the cost > of heath care for everybody. > why is this so bad? isn’t it medication used to help people? it’s not > crack… >> it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our > media, >> but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. >> Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, > and >> ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! >> Namaste >> J >>> Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your >> stomach, >>> no?? >>>> do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? >>>> Thats incredible… >>>> J >>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in > the >> US >>>> or >>>>>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also > using >> 2g >>>> of >>>>>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since >> taking >>>> B5 >>>>>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and > my >>>> muscles >>>>>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from > this >>>> symp- >>>>>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is > this >>>> even >>>>>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine >> anti-depressant >>>> ? >>>>> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but >>>>> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart >>>>> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain > blood >>>> barrier" >>>>> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and > or >>>> drugs.In >>>>> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, >> since >>>> those >>>>> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. >>>>> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be > smart >> to >>>> talk >>>>> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve >>>> encountered. >>>>> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts >> about >>>>> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil > problem >> than >>>> B5. >>>>> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more > help.

Response:

Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your stomach, no?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > Thats incredible… > J >> Hi folks, >> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US > or >> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g > of >> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking > B5 >> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > muscles >> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this > symp- >> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this > even >> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant > ? > I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood > barrier" > thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or > drugs.In > that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since > those > drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to > talk > with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > encountered. > You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about > vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than > B5. > Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

Maybe Zoloft wasn’t prescribed because, as the commercial says, it has "certain sexual side effects . . .". For the human male, it’s like chemical castration – the libido ceases to exist in some; heard it’s not much better for the female. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I seriously doubt that B5 interacted with Paxil to cause the symptoms > that you described.  However, it’s recommended that folic acid (B9) > should be taken with AD (antidepressants) as well as anti-epileptic > drugs (AEDs) and it is very unfortunate that your doc failed to inform > you about it.  Here is one of the studies (I chose an easy to read > one:-). > Before you throw B5 altogether I suggest that you add folic acid; I > would start with 400 mcg (800 is the RDA) and even increase it to 800 > if no adverse reaction/s. Folic acid has been found to help in the > prevention of so many other neurological disorders. > BTW, why you were prescribed Paxil and not Zoloft, which is a much > superior medication and was the prescribing doc a psychiatrist or your > generalist/family doc/internist? > Good luck, > ada > You may want to consult your physician or your pharmacist but I don’t see > how it could cause a reaction. >> Hi folks, >> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or >> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g >  of >> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 >> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my >  muscles >> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this >  symp- >> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even >> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our media, but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, and ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! Namaste J

> Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your stomach, > no??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > Thats incredible… > J >>> Hi folks, >>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US > or >>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g > of >>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking > B5 >>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > muscles >>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this > symp- >>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this > even >>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant > ? >> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but >> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart >> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood > barrier" >> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or > drugs.In >> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since > those >> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. >> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to > talk >> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > encountered. >> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about >> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than > B5. >> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? Thats incredible… J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi folks, >I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or >Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of >B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 >I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles >feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- >toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even >a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ? > I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood barrier" > thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or drugs.In > that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since those > drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to talk > with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve encountered. > You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about > vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than B5. > Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

> Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects they > tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling > and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words > "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is > "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the > bad side effects!    ;0

Yeah, it’s called advertising.  Usually those *bad* side effects are so unlikely that only one in a million would have any serious problems.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Side affects? What side affects????? <g> > > Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. > > Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers > or > > dish soap. > Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects > they > tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling > and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words > "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is > "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the > bad side effects!    ;0

Response:

Side affects? What side affects????? <g>

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. > Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers or > dish soap. > Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects they > tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling > and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words > "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is > "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the > bad side effects!    ;0

Response:

I seriously doubt that B5 interacted with Paxil to cause the symptoms that you described.  However, it’s recommended that folic acid (B9) should be taken with AD (antidepressants) as well as anti-epileptic drugs (AEDs) and it is very unfortunate that your doc failed to inform you about it.  Here is one of the studies (I chose an easy to read one:-). Before you throw B5 altogether I suggest that you add folic acid; I would start with 400 mcg (800 is the RDA) and even increase it to 800 if no adverse reaction/s. Folic acid has been found to help in the prevention of so many other neurological disorders. BTW, why you were prescribed Paxil and not Zoloft, which is a much superior medication and was the prescribing doc a psychiatrist or your generalist/family doc/internist? Good luck, ada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You may want to consult your physician or your pharmacist but I don’t see > how it could cause a reaction. > Hi folks, > I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or > Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g >  of > B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 > I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my >  muscles > feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this >  symp- > toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even > a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

You may want to consult your physician or your pharmacist but I don’t see how it could cause a reaction.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi folks, > I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or > Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of > B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 > I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles > feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- > toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even > a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

Stop taking the damn antidepressant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi folks, > I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or > Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of > B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 > I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles > feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- > toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even > a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

> Hi folks, >I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or >Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of >B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 >I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles >feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- >toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even >a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but according to the people at rec.drugs.smart B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood barrier" thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or drugs.In that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since those drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to talk with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve encountered. You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than B5. Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers or dish soap.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stop taking the damn antidepressant. >  You seem to be experienced in giving stupid answers.

Response:

> Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. > Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers or > dish soap.

Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects they tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the bad side effects!    ;0

Response:

Question:

> Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?   > I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I > will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc > etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month > before I get back on my feet ?

I did go off Effexor, and I don’t recommend stopping suddenly. If you’re starting from 225 mg per day, I’d certainly suggest reducing the dose over several weeks. Six months seems like quite a long time, but as usual I think it’s wiser to listen to one’s physician than to random strangers posting in Usenet. You mention that you won’t be taking any anti-depressant at all for two weeks to "clear your blood". A period like this is required when changing between some anti-depressants, but not with SSRIs such as Effexor, I believe. — Francais / English / Esperanto Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

Response:

ive gone from over 300mg to 0 straight away with no problems at all. one time i went straight off 75mg and had terrible problems.   its rather strange,  just a matter of luck i guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi all, >            I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided >to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 >mg every month. >            This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks >without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before >the other SSRI does its effects… >            I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on >another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal >symptoms during these 6 months. >            Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it >COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >(because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head >ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 >month before I get back on my feet ? >            I would appreciate comments on this. >            Thank you.

Response:

>             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it > COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >             I would appreciate comments on this.

I’ve gone ‘cold turkey’ on effexor a number of times. Some times I don’t feel a thing, and other times I get wierd, wierd delusions & hallucinations. I smell things that aren’t real. Buildings seem totally out of proportion. Sometimes get REALLY manic. Other times, it’s like I went from taking sugar pills to not taking sugar pills. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. I suggest making sure you have an ample supply of effexor on hand, if you do start getting bad side effects, so you can get back on the horse, and start tapering. HTH, B

Response:

> Id recommend finding another doctor.  You can go off Effexor much faster than > 37.5 mg a month, especially if your intention is to switch to another > antidepressant afterward.

i wouldnt go that far as calling your dr. an idiot…… most doctors are not careful enough, so on that level you are lucky. however, going on and off meds is a very individual experience and really the best guide is how YOU FEEL. if you really need to get on another med, taper a little faster if six months  seems too slow. but i would not try to ‘cram’ that isnt the way drugs work. tapering is really the best even if you taper a little faster. having a dr that errs on the side of caution is not a bad thing…. but the reality is that every situation is totally different and what really matters is how these medicines affect *the patient* at any given moment. some people are not so sensitive and need to taper  faster and get on that new med. so its really the individuals choice. the best thing a doctor can do in my opinion is listen to and carefully monitor the *individual* patient. that will work better than any formula because every single patient is a completley different case. some people are simply very sensitive to meds. some people are not so. if you dont feel anything adverse, taper a little faster. if you feel something adverse, taper a little slower. the whole idea is how you feel, right? ive known my <good> dr five years now and he lets me change dosages at will without even calling him becuase he knows that i listen to what the drugs do to me. thats the best way imo. my previous doctors did not listen to what i TOLD THEM about how i felt and how the drugs affected me, and that was a big problem. if you and your dr have a good working relationship, then you can adjust your taper according to how it affects you individually……that would be my suggestion….. it really is  easier on your brain….. (and a mind is a terrible thing to reduce to waste if you ask me) good luck…. annas holes in whats left of my reason holes in the knees of my blues odds against me been increasin’. but i’ll pull through never could read no road map and i dont know what the weather might do but i’ll drink sweet wine and see the dark star shine ive got a feelin theres no time to lose……. no time to lose….. ~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~

Response:

Hi all,             I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 mg every month.             This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before the other SSRI does its effects…             I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal symptoms during these 6 months.             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month before I get back on my feet ?             I would appreciate comments on this.             Thank you.

Response:

Question:

Well, I think I tried to be friendly to everyone here, including Eric, and his supporter against me, Linda.  And, I also tried to give information on depression and to start a series of lessons on depression and antidperessant.  Maybe I’m just in a pissy mood today, but I just feel I’ve had it. The unwarranted abuse and criticism I receive here is too much – I don’t deserve it, and it hurts my feelings.  So, I’ve decided that I’m important than you are, and certainly more important than shits like Eric.  Why should I give a fuck what he thinks about depression, or medication.  Why should I let these net chats gets more intense than the vacuous, empty prattle that they are; appearing on the screen one moment and disappearing the next. So, there must a better place. Good bye. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Well, I think I tried to be friendly to everyone > >here, including Eric, and his supporter against me, > >Linda.  And, I also tried to give information > >on depression and to start a series of lessons > >on depression and antidperessant.  Maybe I’m just > >in a pissy mood today, but I just feel I’ve had it. > >The unwarranted abuse and criticism I receive here > >is too much – I don’t deserve it, and it hurts my > >feelings.  So, I’ve decided that I’m important > >than you are, and certainly more important than > >shits like Eric.  Why should I give a fuck what he > >thinks about depression, or medication.  Why should > >I let these net chats gets more intense than the > >vacuous, empty prattle that they are; appearing on > >the screen one moment and disappearing the next. > >So, there must a better place. > >Good bye. > >Squiggles > Squiggles what I dont understand is that I formally apologized to you > recently, > yet soon afterwards you began attacking me and being observedly > smartassing me. > I dont understand that.  You have left this NG maybe twenty times since > youve > been here. Obviously you must hold grudges bad as I had apologized to you. > Eric > I support Eric…and I support Squiggles…I really like both of you…and I > dont support ERIC against you,  squiggles!  I support Eric. from you…cause > you really do tease Eric a lot, which occasionally gets to him, and is bound > to what with Steve so contemptously harassing Eric…I just think sometime > if you get to Eric..with your teasing…you get some of what he feels about > Steves harassing him displaced..etc etc.. > If Steve would stop contemptously harassing Eric…your teasing Eric too > wouldnt end up so badly so often.. > sigh..  Iff only we were all perfect,  we wouldnt be here! > All Psychiatrists should first be trained as Neurologists. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

I don’t want to play. Squiggles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Squiggles.  I like hearing from you but if you want to take a little "rest" from all of us, you are welcome.  It does get a little tiresome sometimes, what goes on around here (and all the other newsgroups I subscribe to, too.) I wish you the best and hope to see you again soon. (IMHO, no, not humble, just IMO, you contribute a lot to us.) — Val in Boise

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, I think I tried to be friendly to everyone > here, including Eric, and his supporter against me, > Linda.  And, I also tried to give information > on depression and to start a series of lessons > on depression and antidperessant.  Maybe I’m just > in a pissy mood today, but I just feel I’ve had it. > The unwarranted abuse and criticism I receive here > is too much – I don’t deserve it, and it hurts my > feelings.  So, I’ve decided that I’m important > than you are, and certainly more important than > shits like Eric.  Why should I give a fuck what he > thinks about depression, or medication.  Why should > I let these net chats gets more intense than the > vacuous, empty prattle that they are; appearing on > the screen one moment and disappearing the next. > So, there must a better place. > Good bye. > Squiggles

To yourself you must be the most important person always.  Preserve yourself at all costs.  Just keep in mind going overboard looks like Eric.

Response:

> I support Eric…and I support Squiggles…I really like both of you…and I > dont support ERIC against you,  squiggles!  I support Eric. from you…cause > you really do tease Eric a lot, which occasionally gets to him, and is bound > to what with Steve so contemptously harassing Eric…I just think sometime > if you get to Eric..with your teasing…you get some of what he feels about > Steves harassing him displaced..etc etc.. > If Steve would stop contemptously harassing Eric…your teasing Eric too > wouldnt end up so badly so often..

Is it harassment to call him, in the tone he employs on folks he disagrees with, when he wants to continue spewing his hate, or his disinformation? Everyone has their own definition…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sigh..  Iff only we were all perfect,  we wouldnt be here!

Response:

> Squiggles.  I like hearing from you but if you want to take a little "rest" > from all of us, you are welcome.  It does get a little tiresome sometimes, > what goes on around here (and all the other newsgroups I subscribe to, too.) > I wish you the best and hope to see you again soon. > (IMHO, no, not humble, just IMO, you contribute a lot to us.) > — > Val in Boise

I appreciate your message Val.  Difficult as it may be to believe I appreciate information from all sources here.  The style of some is abrasive, and presently I have some problems at home (one of my relatives is diagnosed with something) and I am dieting as well — so it may be harder for me to keep my cool.  And as you say a rest from here is perhaps the best thing. Thank you for your kind message. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I think I tried to be friendly to everyone > here, including Eric, and his supporter against me, > Linda.  And, I also tried to give information > on depression and to start a series of lessons > on depression and antidperessant.  Maybe I’m just > in a pissy mood today, but I just feel I’ve had it. > The unwarranted abuse and criticism I receive here > is too much – I don’t deserve it, and it hurts my > feelings.  So, I’ve decided that I’m important > than you are, and certainly more important than > shits like Eric.  Why should I give a fuck what he > thinks about depression, or medication.  Why should > I let these net chats gets more intense than the > vacuous, empty prattle that they are; appearing on > the screen one moment and disappearing the next. > So, there must a better place. > Good bye. > Squiggles > To yourself you must be the most important person always.  Preserve > yourself at all costs.  Just keep in mind going overboard looks like Eric.

Roger Squiggles

Response:

>>Is it harassment to call him, in the tone he employs on folks he >disagrees with, when he wants to continue spewing his hate, or his >disinformation? > You cant come here for the specific purpose of harassing me Steve just because > you disagree with my beliefs. By the very nature of this NG, medications used > for depression are the topic here. Stop coming here to tell me to "get off > drugs" and harassing me cause I am considering ECT. It will only get you

In a previous post you already claimed to have reported me to the which you report to be of doubtful credibility, or you lied, which also casts doubt on your credibility. You are quite entitled to call what I do harassment, if it will help you in some way, Eric. I call it rigorous discussion of your ideas, a discussion which your ill conceived views are not equal to.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Well, I think I tried to be friendly to everyone > >here, including Eric, and his supporter against me, > >Linda.  And, I also tried to give information > >on depression and to start a series of lessons > >on depression and antidperessant.  Maybe I’m just > >in a pissy mood today, but I just feel I’ve had it. > >The unwarranted abuse and criticism I receive here > >is too much – I don’t deserve it, and it hurts my > >feelings.  So, I’ve decided that I’m important > >than you are, and certainly more important than > >shits like Eric.  Why should I give a fuck what he > >thinks about depression, or medication.  Why should > >I let these net chats gets more intense than the > >vacuous, empty prattle that they are; appearing on > >the screen one moment and disappearing the next. > >So, there must a better place. > >Good bye. > >Squiggles > Squiggles what I dont understand is that I formally apologized to you >  recently, > yet soon afterwards you began attacking me and being observedly >  smartassing me. > I dont understand that.  You have left this NG maybe twenty times since >  youve > been here. Obviously you must hold grudges bad as I had apologized to you. > Eric > I support Eric…and I support Squiggles…I really like both of you…and I > dont support ERIC against you,  squiggles!  I support Eric. from you…cause > you really do tease Eric a lot, which occasionally gets to him, and is bound > to what with Steve so contemptously harassing Eric…I just think sometime > if you get to Eric..with your teasing…you get some of what he feels about > Steves harassing him displaced..etc etc.. > If Steve would stop contemptously harassing Eric…your teasing Eric too > wouldnt end up so badly so often.. > sigh..  Iff only we were all perfect,  we wouldnt be here! > All Psychiatrists should first be trained as Neurologists. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

I’m  new here and don’t know if I will stay with this group. But I have received some good responses from folks. It would be helpful to know just what has ticked off people so  much to cause such rancor that lasts this long and continuously. I can’t under stand what incites people for so long. I know when I have felt particularly upset by a posting, usually the rest of my life is in disarray too, causing me to exert that much more concern regarding what other’s think on the darn net. Then I realize that I will never most likely never meet these people and while they may be irksome to me, I refuse to let their behaviour keep me irritable, anxious, and bitter and preventing me from perhaps learning some info that might get me off this dumb list in the first place. Thanks. You are so goodlooking !

Response:

> Im going to report you Steve. I havent done it yet but Im going to complain

on the Sacred Constitution of the United States of America. It is alright for him to tell Squiggles to f*** off, but Steve has no right to free speech (neither do I, I suspect …). How interesting … is it a North Carolina thing, Eric? How does free speech die so easily in America, when you are bombing the piss out of a country to protect the freedom of the world? What hypocricy. Aren’t you the one who was totally outraged when the topic of reporting people to their isp’s came up before? You were totally freaked when Frenchie was kicked off of AT&T because of violations of the Canadian Criminal Code … but that wasn’t America … was it? Now, the tables are turned … and it is suddenly alright? Sure … it is only free speech. No big deal. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I told you to stop coming here for the specific purpose of harassing me, which > is exactly what you do. Im tired of it. There are many other individuals on > this and similar depression supports boards who have strong views about > psychiatry meds and you do not harass them. I do not care for your opinion > Steve and I do not enjoy getting constantly harassed by someone who is > obviously very brainwashed and has some rather unusual…and highly ineffective > ideas concerning severe mental illness. > I have repeatedly told you to leave me alone and that I have no interest in > talking to you about this, as you are a hardened individual and in my personal > opinion, brainwashed. I have ignored you overall for the past five to six weeks > and you continue harassing me in a very specific way. > I do not specifically seek out people on Usenet to harass as you do Steve. > Eric > All Psychiatrists should first be trained as Neurologists. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

–

Question:

<< The authors foresee an eventual blending of psychiatry and neurology, but what they leave unsaid is the possibility of a breakdown in the distinctions between various forms of mental illness, and ultimately how we perceive it. Dr  >> Thank the lord!!! Merge Psychiatry into Neurology and be done with it…mental illness shall be treated as a brain based physical illness in the future. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

"Left unsaid is the possibility of a breakdown in the distinctions between various forms of mental illness." We’ve been told that the new generation of antidepressants act by blocking the reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain, but what precisely is that supposed to mean? In a Medscape article, Thomas Kramer MD is candid enough to admit: "Put simply, we know these drugs work, but we have very little idea how. We make guesses based on the neurochemical effects of these compounds. We have very little proof, and sometimes very little data, about whether the neurochemical effects that we find have anything to do with the therapeutic effect of the medication." In support of his argument, he cites the antidepressant, tianeptine, available only in Europe, that is a selective serotonin reuptake ENHANCER – ie, it works exactly opposite to SSRIs but with the same therapeutic effect. He speculates both classes of drugs may work because of their action rather than type of action, each succeeding in "jolting" the firing of neurons. To illustrate the principle, Kramer cites a story dating from the golden age of radio when a malfunction in the main transmitter caused CBS to go off the air. When the company

Question:

I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; i don’t know if this is due to the drug or just a shitty attitude; Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; and i would think that it must be against the Charter of this newsgroup. I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating and that it can do a lot of harm to people who are already struggling and relying on this for a connection to a supportive net of cyberfriends. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles

Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not depressed, in a good way of course. As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor. When I go on antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some. Im sorry that my warped jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it. I get sick and fucking tired of listening to anti-psychiatry medication assholes like Steven Kaess and this FGM character coming onto ASDM and putting down depressives who take antidepressants. Its downright incorrect information and its discriminatory towards we the mentally ill. I dont like coming onto ASDM to see Kaess and FGM’s smartalecky condescending tones towards depressives such as myself. FGM’s posts are downright insulting to depressives and he isnt joking about it either. Someone must stand up to these individuals Irene. I know you are an extremely sensitive person Irene, you have told me that you are in private Emails. I realize you are probably a "people pleaser" and hate to see violent arguments or disagreements among people. You probably like to see compromise and agreement among people. I understand that but you also need to understand some people dont see it that way, some people believe in fighting back against the discrimination against the severely mentally ill. Thats why many times I am extremely sarcastic and pissy towards individuals such as Steve Kaess, Bob Whelan and this FGM character. Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles. They should be your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness. These people do not represent your interests at all and they need to be stood up to and put in their places. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles > Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by > depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not > depressed, in a good way of course. As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I > cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor. When I go on > antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some. Im sorry that my warped > jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything > goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it.

Eric, It’s true that this is an alt. group; nevertheless i think that others too are insulted by your outbursts; > Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles. They should be > your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness. These people do not > represent your interests at all and they need to be stood up to and put in > their places. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

I don’t know who my friends or my enemies are on the NET frankly, because i think there is no way of telling, and because i believe that these terms are kind of meaningless anyway on the NET, i concentrate on expressing my own views as best i can, and i also just try to get practical advice – but at the end of the day, i have to be the judge – the thing about the NET, especially in support mode, is that you are ultimately in control; if you decide to give up that control, you give up to unknown factors. Anyway, i can see that you have your cowboy hat on and you’re riding a very colourful horse; as i said, it’s very hard to prove who is who on the NET, and whether you are abrasive or not, i think that it’s only fair to give proof of identification when making personal accusations. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles > Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by > depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not > depressed, in a good way of course.

Yes I am sure it would help you in, say, a prison experience, or perhaps the Marines. > As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I > cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor.

And you are out of touch with reality and demonstrating strong  symptoms of mania. > When I go on > antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some.

Yes your Ho post had em laughing, eric.  Do you like the idea of woman being slapped around to shut them up?  Perhaps such images cause you intense excitement, eric.  After all beating up people weaker then you is a good way to feel good about yourself.  If you are a psychopath. > Im sorry that my warped > jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything > goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it.

We do, too bad you seem unable to , eric. > I get sick and fucking tired of listening to anti-psychiatry medication > assholes like Steven Kaess and this FGM character coming onto ASDM and putting > down depressives who take antidepressants.

Your inability to comprehend my posts is most unsettling.  I suggest you try to read slower, perhaps sounding out each word.  Subtle seems to be a word you never learned.  FGM is a different person then me, I have no resemblance to FGM.  I do not say that  folks chose to be depressed.  I do think you chose the dx because depression in the medical model is much easier to accept and does not require you to take any responsibility for your true state. > Its downright incorrect information

Even though whenever I post strong proof of my statements you ignore it.  Simple denial will no longer work, eric. > and its discriminatory towards we the mentally ill.

There is no discrimination toward the mentally ill in my posts, but perhaps you might have some elements of a persecution complex, eric. > I dont like coming onto > ASDM to see Kaess and FGM’s smartalecky condescending tones towards depressives > such as myself.

You are not representative of the great majority of depressives.  You are like a black man who acts badly, perhaps breaks the law, and then blames the result on his race.  The way you are treated is not in any respect indicative of peoples general attitude toward depressives in general, eric.  It’s just an indication of the opinion people hold about you. > FGM’s posts are downright insulting to depressives and he isnt > joking about it either. Someone must stand up to these individuals Irene.

And you are the sheriff round these parts, eric? > I know you are an extremely sensitive person Irene, you have told me that you > are in private Emails. I realize you are probably a "people pleaser" and hate > to see violent arguments or disagreements among people. You probably like to > see compromise and agreement among people. I understand that but you also need > to understand some people dont see it that way, some people believe in fighting > back against the discrimination against the severely mentally ill. Thats why > many times I am extremely sarcastic and pissy towards individuals such as Steve > Kaess, Bob Whelan and this FGM character. > Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles.

You are unable to differentiate between enemies and those who disagree with you. Further evidence of your impaired cognitive ability.  Or perhaps you just never had the ability in the first place, lost boy. > They should be > your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness.

So here is the eric’s logic tree: Steve disagrees with me I am mentally ill Steve attacks my ideas about mental illness Steve attacks me Steve is my enemy Steve is the enemy of every person with mental illness If you accept this, squigglie, I am your enemy. > These people do not > represent your interests at all

So you are able to dictate to people what their interests are.  It is interesting to see you acting in the fashion of an authority figure in the ‘total institution’ model you presented recently.  Your idolization of psychiatrists is so total that you now posit that you are the person who should define others legitimate interests, eric. > and they need to be stood up to

Standing up to a person does not include calling them names, it does consist of offering counter arguments and facts, rather then your reiteration of your undefended themes, eric. > and put in > their places.

What place would that be, lost boy? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric > My defense system requires me to claim that steroids caused my > depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://www.ect.org

Response:

Here is the latest study on Luvox for anxiety, albeit with children: Walkup, John T.. Labellarte, Michael J.. Riddle, Mark A.. Pine, Daniel S.. Greenhill, Laurence. Klein, Rachel. Davies, Mark. Sweeney, Michael. Abikoff, Howard et al. Fluvoxamine for the Treatment of Anxiety Disorders in Children and Adolescents. New England Journal of Medicine. 344(17):1279-1285, April 26, 2001: Our report demonstrates the efficacy of fluvoxamine in the treatment of children with social phobia, separation anxiety disorder, or generalized anxiety disorder. Fluvoxamine treatment was generally well tolerated but was associated with significantly more gastrointestinal symptoms, as found in other trials, [6,7,13-17] and with greater increases in children’s levels of activity than was placebo. Effects on activity have been found in previous trials of selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors in children, particularly in children younger than 13 years of age, [7] but such effects typically have not been found in adults. [12-14] This increase in activity in children may relate to subjective effects in adults taking these drugs, who sometimes report increases in energy. Regardless of the mechanism, the side effects in the fluvoxamine group were usually mild. Only 5 of the 63 children in the fluvoxamine group discontinued treatment as a result of adverse events, as compared with 1 of the 65 children in the placebo group. The efficacy of treatment with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors for anxiety in children in our trial is consistent with data obtained in studies of adults. Panic disorder, social phobia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder are the three specific anxiety disorders in adults whose treatment with these drugs has been studied most intensively. [12-15] In general, approximately 50 to 70 percent of patients with these disorders respond to therapy with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors; response rates in patients with panic disorder are usually higher than in patients with the other disorders. The results of our trial in children with social phobia, separation anxiety disorder, and generalized anxiety disorder are also consistent with the results of trials of these drugs in children with obsessive-compulsive disorder and major depression. [6,7,16,17,26]

Response:

goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to > increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have > noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; > i don’t know if this is due to the drug > or just a shitty attitude; > Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; > and i would think that it must be against > the Charter of this newsgroup. > I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating > and that it can do a lot of harm to people > who are already struggling and relying on > this for a connection to a supportive net > of cyberfriends. > Squiggles

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken wings and learn to fly all your life you were only waiting for this moment to arrive ~

Response:

> goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite > now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary.

you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite >now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. > I agree…since going back on the meds my blood pressure is now under control > and I can tolerate antidepressants again like I used to. And by going back on a > simple SSRI, I find myself no longer the sappy, super guilty, worried, > pussified wussyboy I was off meds for most of the past seven or eight months. I > find my "old"  personality returning somewhat. Still nowhere even close to > normal but certainly better than I am off the meds. Id say Im currently at oh, > 30%. While for most of the past six or seven months Id say I was oh,  5%. > Sappy, self effacing and "super nice" is not the real Eric. I do indeed have a > warped sense of humor. Maybe I should keep it off the newsgroup, I dont know. > Lord knows any oldtimers from ASDM like Mike or some of the people who dont > hang out here anymore know how warped I can be. Its all in good fun though and > just joking around.

Further evidence of a pattern of refusal to take responsibility for your actions, eric. When do you cut your first album?  When daddies money comes through? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

Eric is simply feeling like himself again. Thats all there is too it. Hes not being aggressive because of the meds..DUH! He is feeling better enough to show his aggression now. This is natural for him. Enough of the anti med crusade ay? I’m not sure what is motivating your statements now. Do you?

Response:

>Anna likes hate and saying hateful things and likes Eric and anyone the more >hateful they get. For her the worse someone gets hateful wise, its her opinion >they are improving, while anyone getting better is from her perspective >becoming worse. >Linda

Anna is a very sweet person and a friend, when you push buttons bad things tend to happen with people. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite >> now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. >you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not >Squiggles > I dont think its true anna knows Eric better than you, Squiggles you seem to > know and understand Eric as well or better than anyone here. > Anna likes hate and saying hateful things and likes Eric and anyone the more > hateful they get. For her the worse someone gets hateful wise, its her opinion > they are improving, while anyone getting better is from her perspective > becoming worse. > Linda

Oh ok – then it may have been satire – went right by me; I don’t wanna play this game.  Leaves a bad taste for maybe days; Squiggles

Response:

> you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not

ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you hate my guts or want to see me dead. here goes. the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: he sounds more cheerful. he sounds more energetic. he is able to make jokes. he is able to joke about sex. he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control ummmm….. let see. will that do for now? we can discuss this without killing each other now, becuase we are CIVILISED human beings, rite? > Squiggles

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken wings and learn to fly all your life you were only waiting for this moment to arrive ~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not > ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a > meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other > potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to > realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you > hate my guts or want to see me dead. > here goes. > the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: > he sounds more cheerful. > he sounds more energetic. > he is able to make jokes. > he is able to joke about sex. > he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just > sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good > he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control > ummmm….. let see. > will that do for now? > we can discuss this without killing each other now, becuase we are > CIVILISED human beings, rite?

Diana, I take it you are referring to both of us when you say we are civilized – thanks.  Well, i have my uncivilized streak, but yes i appreciate your analysis of Eric.  I still say, he’s a writer  - nobody i know writes like that without an education in English Lit. Squiggles

Response:

> > ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a > meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other > potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to > realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you > hate my guts or want to see me dead. > here goes. > the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: > he sounds more cheerful. > he sounds more energetic. > he is able to make jokes.

All symptomatic of mania as well. > he is able to joke about sex.

His infamous ho posting?? > he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just > sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good

Yes his range of insults and curses is becoming more varied, and he has started to attempt to support his points by extensive misrepresentation of various sources. > he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control

Compliant with meds… > ummmm….. let see. > will that do for now?

Depends on your definition of better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

i would very much like to know, from somebody who knows, whether the prescription guidelines for a/d’s (or ohter psy. drugs) are formulated and practiced by the drug companies, by the hospitals, by the doctors or in cooperation… this is an important question for me and i don’t know the facts. thank you Squiggles

Response:

The guidlines for prescibing medications evolve over a period of time. The initial recommendations come as a result of the clinical trials that are presented to the drug monitoring body of a particular country (FDA in the United States, I am not sure if it the Ministry of Health in Canada or another, unrelated government organization). The doses are tested on human subjects after the safty of the drug has been established in laboratory tests on animals and usually human tissues donated for this purpose (kidney and liver cells are especially important as they are easily damaged by drugs). "Thereputic dosage" is recommended on the safer side of things. Then … it goes to the street … so to speak. Clinicians, aka Doctors, will find that there are differences in practice than on paper and will play with the dosages and report their findings, as well as unusual side effects to the companies which track them in a database for future reference (especially life threatening ones). Here is an example: the "book" say the upper dose of Seroquel is 750 mg. Fine … I was talking to a doctor today who has some patients on 1000 mg and he has never seen a case of TD with this medication. The experience of the doctor with a particular drug and its interactions with other drugs becomes more important in many cases than the original guidlines for dosage. However, those original guidlines are important for contraindications, interactions and adverse-effects. I hope this helps you. Peter

> i would very much like to know, from somebody who > knows, whether the prescription guidelines for > a/d’s (or ohter psy. drugs) are formulated and > practiced by the drug companies, by the hospitals, > by the doctors or in cooperation… this is an > important question for me and i don’t know the > facts.

–