SSRIs

Question:

Hello, My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with whatever we decide. Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for a few days. Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks, Fernand

Response:

Get another Doc, sounds like he/she doesn’t really know what to perscribe. A shrink with expeience will have a better understanding of your wifes problem. But in the end, it’s still trial and error method, cause everybody reacts differently to different meds. good luck.

Response:

Are you seeing a shrink or a MD? — John T. May Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, > with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part > because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including > bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting > and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps > starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with > whatever we decide. > Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages > really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the > moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft > instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been > feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about > right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for > a few days. > Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. > Thanks, > Fernand

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, >with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part >because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including >bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting >and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps >starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with >whatever we decide. >Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages >really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the >moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft >instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been >feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about >right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for >a few days. >Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. >Thanks, >Fernand

As far as dosage, there really isn’t any conversion IME as to what equals what. It’s really based on reaction to the med which really varies from person to person. I don’t hold myself out as a medical professional, but I wonder why a doctor has 3 different antidepressants in her system at once, frankly, even two. Right now, with three different antidepressants, 2 acting on serotonin and on mainly acting on norephinephrine I don’t see how anyone would be able to sort out what antidepressant in this combo is causing which effect to happen. It’s not unheard of to be on more than one antidepressant, but to _me_, it complicates things. I assume she was put on 2 because either the Effexor wasn’t doing the job completely or just quit. If it were me, I would prefer to be switched just to one med, so if it stopped working I wouldn’t have to guess as to what is doing what. As much as we know about the brain, we have no clue as to what happens to emotions when you start dealing with med combos. It may be why you are getting the "heavy-handed, and uneven in action" you describe. In fact, if you go to the pharmacy and ask for the prescribing information attached to the bottle and can make it through all the fine print, you’ll see that agitation or anger that your wife is experience listed as a reported side effect of the medication (not common but it happens) – so it’s not implausible that one med is causing it, let alone a combo of three. It could also be the depression, but you are still just left to guesswork. I’m only speaking as someone who has been on and off of antidepressants and combinations for over 20 years, so take it for what it’s worth. Feel free to discard it. These meds can do strange things, especially in combos. While we know what goes on in our head better than the doctors and I have always played an active role in picking new meds, frankly, I would be a bit scared if my doctor told me he’d approve whatever I chose and whatever dosage I wanted and left me to do the research. I would consider going to another psychiatrist for just one or two visits while still keeping your current doctor. Explain the situation and just tell them you want a second opinion. That’s how I got the doc I have today. He saw some things, recommended some changes, and I started feeling so good I kept him. Anyway, enough blabbing. The bottom line is getting your wife to feel better, and whatever path you choose to take to successfully get there no one can complain about. My best to your wife, and you as well. Roy

Response:

Thanks, Roy, The Effexor was added when Zolotf alone became insufficient. The combination works not too badly. It would be nice if a single med worked, especially one with a longer duration of action, a more benign withdrawal, and lower cost. Hence the concept that maybe Prozac alone would be a reasonable try. But because of the (very slow) curve of Prozac, the move through a gradual substitution seems reasonable. I think we’re fortunate in having a little more control than those patients who have no say in their meds, and who consider that a blessing. With indirect acting meds like SSRIs, where the effects take time to develop, where the underlying state of the patient plays such a huge role, and where the physician has no meaningful personal experience (unlike for instance with sedatives, where the physician should clearly know from personal experience e.g. the subjective difference between a benzodiazepine and an antipsychotic), realistically we’re on our own anyway, assessing what works better, which side-effects are most annoying, etc. There are no hard and fast rules, and there are no ultimate experts or authorities. The standard info is there in the PDR, the literature and the textbooks. But many of the people in support groups have developed an invaluable body of personal experience above and beyond that, and this is what I was asking. Thanks for your input, Fernand

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, >with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part >because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including >bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting >and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps >starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with >whatever we decide. >Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages >really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the >moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft >instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been >feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about >right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for >a few days. >Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. >Thanks, >Fernand

As far as dosage, there really isn’t any conversion IME as to what equals what. It’s really based on reaction to the med which really varies from person to person. I don’t hold myself out as a medical professional, but I wonder why a doctor has 3 different antidepressants in her system at once, frankly, even two. Right now, with three different antidepressants, 2 acting on serotonin and on mainly acting on norephinephrine I don’t see how anyone would be able to sort out what antidepressant in this combo is causing which effect to happen. It’s not unheard of to be on more than one antidepressant, but to _me_, it complicates things. I assume she was put on 2 because either the Effexor wasn’t doing the job completely or just quit. If it were me, I would prefer to be switched just to one med, so if it stopped working I wouldn’t have to guess as to what is doing what. As much as we know about the brain, we have no clue as to what happens to emotions when you start dealing with med combos. It may be why you are getting the "heavy-handed, and uneven in action" you describe. In fact, if you go to the pharmacy and ask for the prescribing information attached to the bottle and can make it through all the fine print, you’ll see that agitation or anger that your wife is experience listed as a reported side effect of the medication (not common but it happens) – so it’s not implausible that one med is causing it, let alone a combo of three. It could also be the depression, but you are still just left to guesswork. I’m only speaking as someone who has been on and off of antidepressants and combinations for over 20 years, so take it for what it’s worth. Feel free to discard it. These meds can do strange things, especially in combos. While we know what goes on in our head better than the doctors and I have always played an active role in picking new meds, frankly, I would be a bit scared if my doctor told me he’d approve whatever I chose and whatever dosage I wanted and left me to do the research. I would consider going to another psychiatrist for just one or two visits while still keeping your current doctor. Explain the situation and just tell them you want a second opinion. That’s how I got the doc I have today. He saw some things, recommended some changes, and I started feeling so good I kept him. Anyway, enough blabbing. The bottom line is getting your wife to feel better, and whatever path you choose to take to successfully get there no one can complain about. My best to your wife, and you as well. Roy

Response:

I know one thing, ZOLOFT turned me into a hair triggered bad tempered maniac, I was terrible, snappy all the time and felt that angry inside it was like frustration, My doc changed me to Prozac and within two weeks my temper was back to normal. take care

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, > with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part > because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including > bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting > and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps > starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with > whatever we decide. > Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages > really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the > moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft > instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been > feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about > right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for > a few days. > Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. > Thanks, > Fernand

Response:

Thanks for your feedback, actually it seems that as she slowly tapers off the Zoloft and Effexor over to Prozac, my wife is showing less of that hair-trigger anger, and ALSO feeling less gloomy. It was interesting to read some studies that suggested that Prozac worked better than zoloft on people with emotional swings. It is often the case that the older meds, which are no longer on exclusive brand name patent, are discarded by physicians under sales pressure from the pharm companies, but that in fact the old original, that all the imitations were created after, is still the better one. Generic Prozac is enormously less profitable than the newer ones. Pharmacologically, unless there is a specific reason, it is fair to say that the old and inexpensive one should be tried first. I’m not suggesting that for instance an old tricyclic or MAO inhibitor be used in place of a SSRI. But within the SSRI class, the older compound, in this case Prozac, with more mileage and test results, should not be passed by just because there is a shiny new one that is better-marketed. In her case there was a brief trial of Prozac as I recall, but we know now that it’s a very very slowly acting drug, so a couple of weeks for instance is quite inadequate as a trial period. In our case, if the results continue as they have so far, it would suggest that we could have saved a lot of money and grief sooner. Fernand

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know one thing, ZOLOFT turned me into a hair triggered bad tempered > maniac, I was terrible, snappy all the time and felt that angry inside it > was like frustration, My doc changed me to Prozac and within two weeks my > temper was back to normal. > take care > Hello, > My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, > with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in > part > because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including > bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting > and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps > starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with > whatever we decide. > Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages > really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the > moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft > instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been > feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about > right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that > for > a few days. > Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. > Thanks, > Fernand

Response:

Question:

typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. >> the placebo effect >Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. > Prove that he would have killed himself without it?

I have tried to kill myself several times.  I took anti-depressants (zoloft) and my urge to kill myself…died. Admittadly, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all.  They worked for me and many others where other methods have failed. > A sugar pill would have been cheaper and have less long term side > effects..

There were many things that were done to try and make me happy, but ultimately none worked. > But you’re a drug company shill hired by Eli Lilly to post on ASDM.

Why am I a drug company shill?  Who’s Eli Lilly?  I’m posting from asad not asdm. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. > the placebo effect

Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

> I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

You are boring B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

This is what is happening to me. I think that it works B

Response:

> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years..

not true!!! I had one three days ago! I have to say, maybe efexor is helping me to have back a normal sex life. B

Response:

> Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- > one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another > bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since > it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the > symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might

know…)…. I am sorry, I am not a bipolar person so I can’t answer you. I am just a chronical depressed – …- The important thing is that you found the right medication, I am still researching the best love B

Response:

When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. > well stop xposting to asdt! > > > EFEXOR > > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > > >  effects. > > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months > on > the > > >  drug, I stuck a > > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I > would > not > > >  wake up and get > > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > > and angry. > > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that > maybe > > > your problem is deeper . > > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you > need > > > friends more than a medicine. > > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. > The > only > > >  thing I can > > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > > >  attempts were > > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all > accounts > I > > >  should be dead. If > > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > > >  not be from > > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, > but > > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you > from > > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > > take care > > > love > > > B > > > > — > > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > > Berty

Response:

Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might know…) Anyway I just want to say that I am allergic to all those SSRIs too.  I posted this yesterday.  They all make me feel much, much worse.  Zoloft led to my only overdose (no one pumped my stomach because I didn’t tell anyone it was a strange 3 days.)   Did you all know that suicide is listed as an effect of these drugs? You can read it on many websites and even in the small print on the folded pamphlet included with your Dr’s samples of the drug.  I also read the pamphlet on Zyprexa, and it says suicide can be a rare effect of that too. I know Zyprexa has antihistamine in it, the same thing that makes you tired in benadryl or sleeping pills, and antihistamine also makes me very depressed. I have noticed the little tendancies on the few occasions I was on Zyprex for it being impossible to sleep. They don’t warn you.  I noticed SSRIs are the first thing slapped down as Rx EVERY TIME I’ve seen a different doctor.  thankfully now I have one and we have found the right medications.  Without them I feel like killing myself too. Though I would never do it.  I know its stupid to do.  But it still sucks when life feels so bad you just want to die all the time, except from September to March.  I have a breakdown every year when it turns from hot to cold or back, like clockwork.  anyone else have that?  I always go in the hospital.   I asked this yesterday too.  Don’t bipolars have Excess serotonin, anyway? Why do they put us on ssris, then? I also read some theory that decreasing serotonin is the way out of depresion, that paxil etc works by bombarding receptors to make them less sensitive to serotonin.  that would make sense.   just what is really chemically different about the bipolar brain?  does anyone know?  I only get 30 minutes with my dr and dont’ see a shrink.  I have many questions and have done a lot of reading.  I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to fix it too.  the doctors only have half the info, and we have the other half.  they don’t have the delusions, mania, and depression.  they dont take the Rxs they prescribe.  They only know half. We should pool our info so we can get out of this predicament. I hate it. Love yall, someone please write to me.

Response:

Hehe, actually, effexor has given me MORE INTENSE orgasms No problems with orgasms or getting my dick up. I’m 22 years old and I’ve been on effexor for about 7 months I think. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years.. >I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. >And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. >> well stop xposting to asdt! >> > > EFEXOR >> > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for >> > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >> > >  effects. >> > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months >on >> the >> > >  drug, I stuck a >> > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I >would >> not >> > >  wake up and get >> > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home >> dejected >> > > and angry. >> > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that >maybe >> > > your problem is deeper . >> > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you >need >> > > friends more than a medicine. >> > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. >> > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, >> > > whith efexor you sleep a lot >> > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and >> > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. >> > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. >> Dont >> > > blame any medicine or whatever… >> > > I feel fantastic, in control and >> > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. >The >> only >> > >  thing I can >> > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My >> suicide >> > >  attempts were >> > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all >accounts >> I >> > >  should be dead. If >> > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it >> would >> > >  not be from >> > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. >> > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I >> exist >> > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, >but >> > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you >from >> > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting >> > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. >> > > take care >> > > love >> > > B >> > > > — >> > > > Psychiatry is to Science >> > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy >> > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups >> > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. >> > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? >> > Berty > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well stop xposting to asdt! > > EFEXOR > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > >  effects. > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on > the > >  drug, I stuck a > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would > not > >  wake up and get > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > and angry. > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > > your problem is deeper . > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > > friends more than a medicine. > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The > only > >  thing I can > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > >  attempts were > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts > I > >  should be dead. If > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > >  not be from > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > take care > > love > > B > > > — > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

well stop xposting to asdt!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > > — > > Psychiatry is to Science > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

EFEXOR   In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected

and angry. Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe your problem is deeper . You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need friends more than a medicine. Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night,

whith efexor you sleep a lot Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life.

I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont blame any medicine or whatever… I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor.

I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. take care love B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. > the placebo effect

Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. >> the placebo effect >Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. > Prove that he would have killed himself without it?

I have tried to kill myself several times.  I took anti-depressants (zoloft) and my urge to kill myself…died. Admittadly, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all.  They worked for me and many others where other methods have failed. > A sugar pill would have been cheaper and have less long term side > effects..

There were many things that were done to try and make me happy, but ultimately none worked. > But you’re a drug company shill hired by Eli Lilly to post on ASDM.

Why am I a drug company shill?  Who’s Eli Lilly?  I’m posting from asad not asdm. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. > well stop xposting to asdt! > > > EFEXOR > > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > > >  effects. > > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months > on > the > > >  drug, I stuck a > > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I > would > not > > >  wake up and get > > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > > and angry. > > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that > maybe > > > your problem is deeper . > > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you > need > > > friends more than a medicine. > > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. > The > only > > >  thing I can > > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > > >  attempts were > > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all > accounts > I > > >  should be dead. If > > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > > >  not be from > > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, > but > > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you > from > > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > > take care > > > love > > > B > > > > — > > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > > Berty

Response:

> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years..

not true!!! I had one three days ago! I have to say, maybe efexor is helping me to have back a normal sex life. B

Response:

> Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- > one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another > bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since > it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the > symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might

know…)…. I am sorry, I am not a bipolar person so I can’t answer you. I am just a chronical depressed – …- The important thing is that you found the right medication, I am still researching the best love B

Response:

> I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

You are boring B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

This is what is happening to me. I think that it works B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

I agree with you, Dobei, I find Efexor good. I use to be on surmontil for a year and it didn’t do anything at all for my depression. B

Response:

Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might know…) Anyway I just want to say that I am allergic to all those SSRIs too.  I posted this yesterday.  They all make me feel much, much worse.  Zoloft led to my only overdose (no one pumped my stomach because I didn’t tell anyone it was a strange 3 days.)   Did you all know that suicide is listed as an effect of these drugs? You can read it on many websites and even in the small print on the folded pamphlet included with your Dr’s samples of the drug.  I also read the pamphlet on Zyprexa, and it says suicide can be a rare effect of that too. I know Zyprexa has antihistamine in it, the same thing that makes you tired in benadryl or sleeping pills, and antihistamine also makes me very depressed. I have noticed the little tendancies on the few occasions I was on Zyprex for it being impossible to sleep. They don’t warn you.  I noticed SSRIs are the first thing slapped down as Rx EVERY TIME I’ve seen a different doctor.  thankfully now I have one and we have found the right medications.  Without them I feel like killing myself too. Though I would never do it.  I know its stupid to do.  But it still sucks when life feels so bad you just want to die all the time, except from September to March.  I have a breakdown every year when it turns from hot to cold or back, like clockwork.  anyone else have that?  I always go in the hospital.   I asked this yesterday too.  Don’t bipolars have Excess serotonin, anyway? Why do they put us on ssris, then? I also read some theory that decreasing serotonin is the way out of depresion, that paxil etc works by bombarding receptors to make them less sensitive to serotonin.  that would make sense.   just what is really chemically different about the bipolar brain?  does anyone know?  I only get 30 minutes with my dr and dont’ see a shrink.  I have many questions and have done a lot of reading.  I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to fix it too.  the doctors only have half the info, and we have the other half.  they don’t have the delusions, mania, and depression.  they dont take the Rxs they prescribe.  They only know half. We should pool our info so we can get out of this predicament. I hate it. Love yall, someone please write to me.

Response:

Hehe, actually, effexor has given me MORE INTENSE orgasms No problems with orgasms or getting my dick up. I’m 22 years old and I’ve been on effexor for about 7 months I think. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years.. >I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. >And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. >> well stop xposting to asdt! >> > > EFEXOR >> > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for >> > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >> > >  effects. >> > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months >on >> the >> > >  drug, I stuck a >> > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I >would >> not >> > >  wake up and get >> > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home >> dejected >> > > and angry. >> > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that >maybe >> > > your problem is deeper . >> > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you >need >> > > friends more than a medicine. >> > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. >> > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, >> > > whith efexor you sleep a lot >> > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and >> > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. >> > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. >> Dont >> > > blame any medicine or whatever… >> > > I feel fantastic, in control and >> > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. >The >> only >> > >  thing I can >> > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My >> suicide >> > >  attempts were >> > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all >accounts >> I >> > >  should be dead. If >> > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it >> would >> > >  not be from >> > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. >> > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I >> exist >> > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, >but >> > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you >from >> > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting >> > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. >> > > take care >> > > love >> > > B >> > > > — >> > > > Psychiatry is to Science >> > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy >> > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups >> > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. >> > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? >> > Berty > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

well stop xposting to asdt!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > > — > > Psychiatry is to Science > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well stop xposting to asdt! > > EFEXOR > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > >  effects. > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on > the > >  drug, I stuck a > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would > not > >  wake up and get > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > and angry. > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > > your problem is deeper . > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > > friends more than a medicine. > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The > only > >  thing I can > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > >  attempts were > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts > I > >  should be dead. If > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > >  not be from > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > take care > > love > > B > > > — > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

EFEXOR   In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected

and angry. Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe your problem is deeper . You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need friends more than a medicine. Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night,

whith efexor you sleep a lot Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life.

I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont blame any medicine or whatever… I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor.

I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. take care love B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

Question:

According to Vitriholic <dracodeprofundis<spam, spam, eggs, bacon and spam>: > Welcome to paradise: www.bltc.com

I think that site has some inaccuracies, but it’s infinitely better informed than certain Luddite mentalities regarding the subject. Chris.

Response:

Welcome to paradise: www.bltc.com Vitriholic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wow, really? You’ve spoiled it for me now: all that research, and it means > nothing? None of it’s true? Oh well, let’s just hold hands and put our faith > in the lord. > Although…now that I think about it, I’d rather take my chances with > medicine. > Vitriholic > www.btlc.com > -> > ->Not to be confused with an NARI, but it depends on this week’s > ->current official abbreviations, I think.  :)  Seriously, though, > ->it has about equal potency for serotonin and noradrenaline, in > ->theory a bit like a tricyclic without the unwanted gubbins like > ->antihistamine and anticholinergic effects; IME it seems to do > ->something else, maybe direct 5HT2C stimulation a la fluoxetine > ->as it seems to have the potential to be an anxiogenic. > The kind of "thinking" that goes on in these biopsychiatry posts is so > overloaded with ignorance of neurochemistry, fallacies about what > conclusions follow from what premises, groundless assertions, > breathtaking leaps of illogic, wishful thinking, appeals to authority, > and just flat-out horseshit that it’s hard to know where to even begin > dismantling them. > It’s just astounding that people believe this stuff.  Scratch that — > it’s astounding that people think this stuff even *means* anything. > Cortisol levels?  Oxidative stress?  Neurotransmitters?  Huh?  Do > these people just believe whatever they’re told? > Christ.  Basing your life around a cesspool of fantasy being passed > off as "science" is really not the best approach to living. > Here’s the truth: no one has any idea how the brain works.  No one has > any idea how psychotropic drugs work.  There are no "mental > illnesses." Talking about "serotonin levels" as if you could put a > dipstick in your brain and measure them is laughable.  Don’t be such a > bunch of suckers. > The relationship between consciousness and neurochemistry probably > won’t be unraveled with another thousand years of research. > Just for starters (assuming anyone is willing to think):  When SSRIs > were new, we were supposed to believe that they corrected the specific > "chemical imbalance" that "caused" depression.  They were "selective." > Leaving aside the fact that (1) pharmacodynamic selectivity was > deliberately conflated with selectivity for mood states for marketing > purposes, (2) the causality between neurochemistry and consciousness > isn’t even *slightly* understood, and (3) the phrase "chemical > imbalance" doesn’t actually mean anything, we are now supposed to > believe that these drugs also "cure" "generalized anxiety disorder," > "post-traumatic stress disorder," "obsessive-compulsive disorder," > "social anxiety disorder," an d even fucking PMS for god’s sake.  Wow. > That sounds *really* "selective."  What are the odds that the same > "chemical imbalance" is responsible for virtually every feeling that > someone doesn’t like? > How does "zero" sound? > Stop being such a bunch of idiots being led around by the nose.  Smart > people buy drug company stock.  Dumb people buy drug company products. > This is because there are always more dumb people than smart people.

Response:

> 1) SSRI > selective seratonin reuptake inhibitator…same things as prozac

No it isn’t, it’s an SNRI, also inhibiting the reputake of noradrenaline with about the same potency.  That said, fluoxetine isn’t as selective as the tag suggests, it also has some NRI activity, but to a much lesser extent than venlafaxine. > 3) long term use of SSRI’s is never a good idea unless you MUST have them.

True of any medicine.  Probably most of the bad press about drugs comes from people taking stuff (benzos in particular) that they don’t need; the real killer is that these issues completely overshadow the needs of someone who really *does* need some sort of medication but has a bad adverse reaction to it, who get all but ignored because of the heavy politics surrounding the problems caused by the former situation. Chris.

Response:

> 1) SSRI > selective seratonin reuptake inhibitator…same things as prozac > No it isn’t, it’s an SNRI, also inhibiting the reputake of noradrenaline > with about the same potency.  That said, fluoxetine isn’t as selective > as the tag suggests, it also has some NRI activity, but to a much lesser > extent than venlafaxine.

Effexor IS a SNRI??  If so I am quite mistaken and apoligize. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 3) long term use of SSRI’s is never a good idea unless you MUST have them. > True of any medicine.  Probably most of the bad press about drugs comes > from people taking stuff (benzos in particular) that they don’t need; > the real killer is that these issues completely overshadow the needs of > someone who really *does* need some sort of medication but has a bad > adverse reaction to it, who get all but ignored because of the heavy > politics surrounding the problems caused by the former situation. > Chris.

Response:

> Effexor IS a SNRI??  If so I am quite mistaken and apoligize.

Not to be confused with an NARI, but it depends on this week’s current official abbreviations, I think.  :)  Seriously, though, it has about equal potency for serotonin and noradrenaline, in theory a bit like a tricyclic without the unwanted gubbins like antihistamine and anticholinergic effects; IME it seems to do something else, maybe direct 5HT2C stimulation a la fluoxetine as it seems to have the potential to be an anxiogenic. Chris.

Response:

Wow, really? You’ve spoiled it for me now: all that research, and it means nothing? None of it’s true? Oh well, let’s just hold hands and put our faith in the lord. Although…now that I think about it, I’d rather take my chances with medicine. Vitriholic www.btlc.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > -> > ->Not to be confused with an NARI, but it depends on this week’s > ->current official abbreviations, I think.  :)  Seriously, though, > ->it has about equal potency for serotonin and noradrenaline, in > ->theory a bit like a tricyclic without the unwanted gubbins like > ->antihistamine and anticholinergic effects; IME it seems to do > ->something else, maybe direct 5HT2C stimulation a la fluoxetine > ->as it seems to have the potential to be an anxiogenic. > The kind of "thinking" that goes on in these biopsychiatry posts is so > overloaded with ignorance of neurochemistry, fallacies about what > conclusions follow from what premises, groundless assertions, > breathtaking leaps of illogic, wishful thinking, appeals to authority, > and just flat-out horseshit that it’s hard to know where to even begin > dismantling them. > It’s just astounding that people believe this stuff.  Scratch that — > it’s astounding that people think this stuff even *means* anything. > Cortisol levels?  Oxidative stress?  Neurotransmitters?  Huh?  Do > these people just believe whatever they’re told? > Christ.  Basing your life around a cesspool of fantasy being passed > off as "science" is really not the best approach to living. > Here’s the truth: no one has any idea how the brain works.  No one has > any idea how psychotropic drugs work.  There are no "mental > illnesses." Talking about "serotonin levels" as if you could put a > dipstick in your brain and measure them is laughable.  Don’t be such a > bunch of suckers. > The relationship between consciousness and neurochemistry probably > won’t be unraveled with another thousand years of research. > Just for starters (assuming anyone is willing to think):  When SSRIs > were new, we were supposed to believe that they corrected the specific > "chemical imbalance" that "caused" depression.  They were "selective." > Leaving aside the fact that (1) pharmacodynamic selectivity was > deliberately conflated with selectivity for mood states for marketing > purposes, (2) the causality between neurochemistry and consciousness > isn’t even *slightly* understood, and (3) the phrase "chemical > imbalance" doesn’t actually mean anything, we are now supposed to > believe that these drugs also "cure" "generalized anxiety disorder," > "post-traumatic stress disorder," "obsessive-compulsive disorder," > "social anxiety disorder," an d even fucking PMS for god’s sake.  Wow. > That sounds *really* "selective."  What are the odds that the same > "chemical imbalance" is responsible for virtually every feeling that > someone doesn’t like? > How does "zero" sound? > Stop being such a bunch of idiots being led around by the nose.  Smart > people buy drug company stock.  Dumb people buy drug company products. > This is because there are always more dumb people than smart people.

Response:

> Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression. I > heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the > older ssris.  I am thinking of trying new meds.  Has anyone made the switch > to Effexor and if so, was it better?  How is effexor different?  Does it > work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive > etc)?  Any comments appreciated > Thank You

1) SSRI selective seratonin reuptake inhibitator…same things as prozac 2) are you having trouble with prozac? 3) long term use of SSRI’s is never a good idea unless you MUST have them. 4) ask your doctor.

Response:

Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression.  I heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the older ssris.  I am thinking of trying new meds.  Has anyone made the switch to Effexor and if so, was it better?  How is effexor different?  Does it work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive etc)?  Any comments appreciated Thank You

Response:

>Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression.  I >heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the >older ssris.  I am thinking of trying new meds.  Has anyone made the switch >to Effexor and if so, was it better?  How is effexor different?  Does it >work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive >etc)?  Any comments appreciated >Thank You

BACKGROUND: This was an 8-week, multicenter, randomized, double-blind, parallel-group study of the efficacy and tolerability of venlafaxine and fluoxetine. METHOD: Outpatients with DSM-III-R major depression, a minimum score of 20 on the 21-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D), and depressive symptoms for at least 1 month were eligible. Patients were randomly assigned to treatment with venlafaxine, 37.5 mg twice daily, or fluoxetine, 20 mg once daily. The dose could be increased to venlafaxine, 75 mg twice daily, or fluoxetine, 20 mg twice daily, after 3 weeks for a poor response. The primary efficacy variables were the final on-therapy scores on the HAM-D, Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS), and Clinical Global Impressions Severity of Illness (CGI-S) and Improvement (CGI-I) scales. RESULTS: Three hundred eighty-two patients were randomly assigned to therapy and included in the intent-to-treat analysis. Both venlafaxine and fluoxetine produced significant reductions from baseline to day 56 in mean HAM-D, MADRS, and CGI-S scores, but no significant differences were noted between groups. Among patients who increased their dose at 3 weeks, significantly (p < .05) more patients taking venlafaxine than taking fluoxetine had a CGI-I score of 1 (very much improved) at the final evaluation. The most frequent adverse events were nausea, headache, and dizziness with venlafaxine and nausea, headache, and insomnia with fluoxetine. CONCLUSION: These results support the efficacy and tolerability of venlafaxine in comparison with fluoxetine for treating outpatients with major depression. IOW – YMMV — Catholic Church Primer: http://www.nambla.de

Response:

>Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression.  I >heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the >older ssris.  I am thinking of trying new meds.  Has anyone made the switch >to Effexor and if so, was it better?  How is effexor different?  Does it >work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive >etc)?  Any comments appreciated

I haven’t tried Prozac, but I have been on Effexor XR 150mg for the last 9 months.  I have gone off of it for a week or two because I think it has raised by blood pressure to dangerous levels (170!). Next week I get another test so I will know if it is the cause.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by > >  suppressing > > > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the > >  definition > > > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why >are > > > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > > > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > > both > I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are > not addictive. > Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all > like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact > reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a > mystery. >OK. I drop my request for a molecular/biological level description of >addiction. All I ask is, why do you call alcohol and benzos addictive, and >the AD’s not addictive! What is the behavioural difference between the >addicts to benzos and patients strugling to withdraw Effexor? >cem

I suppose you could start with saying you can’t take xanax for a year and NOT have withdrawal, but can stop Paxil abruptly and be just fine. It doesn’t fit.

Response:

>I suppose you could start with saying you can’t take xanax for a year >and NOT have withdrawal, but can stop Paxil abruptly and be just fine. >It doesn’t fit.

But people have sued the manufacturers of Paxil and won because they didn’t reveal the severity of withdrawal.  There have been scores of Paxil anecdotes here, some people have no problem while others say it was the worst experience of their lives. One subtle difference between Xanax and Paxil is that one produces a mildly euphoric experience while the other simply restores a normal state of being.  But Xanax is HIGHLY addictive!!!  I can’t describe the sensation, but Xanax made me feel like I always had to take another dose.  There was no pain or suffering, just a mental compulsion to take another dose.  I was lucky that I only took it for 5-6 months, long-term users report absolute hell in withdrawal.

Response:

> But people have sued the manufacturers of Paxil and won because they > didn’t reveal the severity of withdrawal.  There have been scores of > Paxil anecdotes here, some people have no problem while others say > it was the worst experience of their lives.

I’m one of the former, although I had such horrible side-effects when I was taking it that any withdrawal may have been compensated for by the diminished side-effects once I’d given it the boot. > One subtle difference between Xanax and Paxil is that one produces a > mildly euphoric experience while the other simply restores a normal > state of being.  But Xanax is HIGHLY addictive!!!  I can’t describe > the sensation, but Xanax made me feel like I always had to take > another dose.  There was no pain or suffering, just a mental > compulsion to take another dose.  I was lucky that I only took it > for 5-6 months, long-term users report absolute hell in withdrawal.

I’m curious about this one.  I’d taken lorazepam for about 2 years, which is supposedly one of the most "addictive" benzos, and when I decided it wasn’t really useful so I may as well stop it I experienced 2 or 3 weeks of slightly increased anxiety, agitation and so on, but certainly a long way from "absolute hell."  I’m wondering if I’m somehow more resistant to withdrawal than most others, or if it’s more a case of how much aggro someone’s prepared to tolerate?  In my case I think I took the rather morbid line that life was already so crap that some extra horribleness was no big deal. Chris.

Response:

> >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example?? >cem > They all are addictive.

Before proceeding on this, does anyone know why the ASAP people, of whom one at least has visited here, are vociferously against the position that benzos are addicting?  And why, this group does not go bezerk if you mention benzo addiction? Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Before proceeding on this, does anyone know >why the ASAP people, of whom one at least has >visited here, are vociferously against the position >that benzos are addicting?  And why, this group >does not go bezerk if you mention benzo addiction? > Because unlike you, they just can’t admit addiction. It’s like walking > in a bar at 11 a.m. and telling people they are alcoholics. > It’s the flip side of anti-med —- pro-med. So blinded and in denial > they can’t see the forest for the trees. > Did you notice they now have a message board for people who want to > debate things that may be "disruptive", IOW – addiction? > Just go to ASAP and ask if benzos are addictive, and report back your > results.

I’ve been there – if you check the Google correspondence between Ian and me, you will see the acrimonious nature of the debate. It’s hard to believe that all of them are blinded to the possibility of addiction.   Interesting that they now have a "disruptive" room – maybe I should go there, LOL!   Squiggles

Response:

>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example??

I can only say from personal experience that benzos are incredibly addictive.  Especially Xanax.  In a way they are similar to methamphetamine, neither makes you think you’re addicted.  Like meth, benzos create a pure mental desire to take another dose, you always find some rationale to do more, thee is no actual physical withdrawal involved.  Perhaps there is some withdrawal, it tends not to be painful, just a dramatic increase in anxiety, the very thing benzos are prescribed to treat.

Response:

>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example?? > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean?

both

Response:

> Not true, Chris.  The benzodiazepine Klonopin (clonazepam HCl) has a > half-life of between 30-40 hours–a half life typical of the SSRIs (except > fluoxetine).

Okay, maybe I missed out the phrase "generally speaking."  Of course there are exceptions with a minority of benzos with atypically long half-lives and antidepressants with very short ones, but IMHO using one of the exceptions to say the basis is "not true" is nitpicking (of course it may be inaccurate in other more valid aspects) Chris.

Response:

> > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by >  suppressing > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the >  definition > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > both

I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are not addictive. Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a mystery. Antidepressants aren’t.  They seem to work by putting a floor under one’s mood state, so that you don’t go spiraling downwards.  But you won’t see people on the street because of being hooked on antidepressants – it just doesn’t happen. The people who deny that benzos are addictive are either in an addictive denial state or in some other peculiar denial state. There’s no doubt that benzos are highly addictive.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by >  suppressing > > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the >  definition > > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > both > I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are > not addictive. > Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all > like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact > reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a > mystery. > Antidepressants aren’t.  They seem to work by putting a floor under > one’s mood state, so that you don’t go spiraling downwards.  But you > won’t see people on the street because of being hooked on > antidepressants – it just doesn’t happen. > The people who deny that benzos are addictive are either in an > addictive denial state or in some other peculiar denial state. > There’s no doubt that benzos are highly addictive.

I think the word "addiction" has a special pharmaceutical meaning and a literal one; it is the literal one that gets people or riled up.  Regarding the ADs however, it seems that some of the new ones leave their mark, if you discontinue the drug; hence the neologism:  "discontinuation syndrome" – how similar that is to "addiction" is something a competent pharmacologist should be able to figure out. Squiggles — Truth has become a commodity.              - Squiggles

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by >  suppressing > > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the >  definition > > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > both > I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are > not addictive. > Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all > like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact > reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a > mystery.

OK. I drop my request for a molecular/biological level description of addiction. All I ask is, why do you call alcohol and benzos addictive, and the AD’s not addictive! What is the behavioural difference between the addicts to benzos and patients strugling to withdraw Effexor? cem

Response:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are they not considered addictive, for example?? cem

Response:

> Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing > the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition > of addiction?

Because the CNS adapts to compensate after prolonged suppression, so once the suppression ends the CNS becomes overactive resulting in various nasties like anxiety and insomnia.  Or something like that. > Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > they not considered addictive, for example??

Much longer half-life.  Benzos wear off after a few hours leading to the chronic user to be continuously aware that they need to take another dose.  Most ADs take several days (at least) before any withdrawal effects are likely to appear, which doesn’t have quite the same immediacy about it. Chris.

Response:

>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example?? >cem

They all are addictive.

Response:

Not true, Chris.  The benzodiazepine Klonopin (clonazepam HCl) has a half-life of between 30-40 hours–a half life typical of the SSRIs (except fluoxetine).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing > the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition > of addiction? > Because the CNS adapts to compensate after prolonged suppression, so > once the suppression ends the CNS becomes overactive resulting in > various nasties like anxiety and insomnia.  Or something like that. > Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > they not considered addictive, for example?? > Much longer half-life.  Benzos wear off after a few hours leading to > the chronic user to be continuously aware that they need to take > another dose.  Most ADs take several days (at least) before any > withdrawal effects are likely to appear, which doesn’t have quite > the same immediacy about it. > Chris.

Response:

Question:

> My son used to take Celexa and I believe he took it in the morning.  It > couldn’t hurt for you to try for a few days and see what happens.  I always > take my prozac in the morning, but then the pdoc recommends that as well.

i take an SSRI too, sertraline (Zoloft)… i was told to take it in the morning because SSRIs have a mild stimulant effect and can cause sleep disturbance if you take them at night… what matters i think is that you take them at the same time each day, regardless of when… hugs m — ~~~~~~>><:>~~~~~~ iriXx " you can try the best you can    you can try the best you can …the best you can is good enough" radiohead: optomistic

Response:

hi there.. Here is my current med regime – my question follows: Morning: 37.5 mg Effexor  <— am being weaned off this, won’t take it next week              900 mg Gabapentin Evening:  50 mg. Celexa              1200 mg. Gabapentin Okay you Celexa folks, do you take your Celexa in the morning on in the evening? I am starting to think it may not be the best med for me to take at night as I am not sleeping well. I get 3-4 hours very light sleep if I don’t take a sleep med, or 5 – 6 hours of a deeper sleep if I give in and take 7.5 mg. Imovane (Canadian non-benzodiazepine sleep med). Gabapentin folks – do you think it is the Gabapentin keeping me on such a light sleep regime? thanks so much everyone, Compucat  >^+^<

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > hi there.. > Here is my current med regime – my question follows: > Morning: 37.5 mg Effexor  <— am being weaned off this, won’t take it next > week >              900 mg Gabapentin > Evening:  50 mg. Celexa >              1200 mg. Gabapentin > Okay you Celexa folks, do you take your Celexa in the morning on in the > evening? I am starting to think it may not be the best med for me to take at > night as I am not sleeping well. I get 3-4 hours very light sleep if I don’t > take a sleep med, or 5 – 6 hours of a deeper sleep if I give in and take 7.5 > mg. Imovane (Canadian non-benzodiazepine sleep med).

My son used to take Celexa and I believe he took it in the morning.  It couldn’t hurt for you to try for a few days and see what happens.  I always take my prozac in the morning, but then the pdoc recommends that as well. > Gabapentin folks – do you think it is the Gabapentin keeping me on such a > light sleep regime?

Fo me I am having a lot of trouble with neurontin (gabapentin) making me sleepy.  I take a larger dose of it at bedtime and it usually helps me to sleep better.  But then that just shows how different we all are with the same meds. I hope your sleep gets better soon Compucat. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> thanks so much everyone, > Compucat  >^+^<

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me about lithium augmentation with SSRIs or SNRIs or whatever?  I’m taking 225mg Effexor XR and my doctor has suggested using lithium augmentation to help with some of the more resistant symptoms.  I’ve tried a whole bunch of other stuff (mostly SSRIs), but I’m a little worried about trying lithium because of it’s reputation as a "hard" drug. Please let me know about any of the positive/negative aspects of lithium, as well as side effects, etc. Anything at all would be appreciated. Elsa

Response:

> Can anyone tell me about lithium augmentation with SSRIs or SNRIs or > whatever?  I’m taking 225mg Effexor XR and my doctor has suggested > using lithium augmentation to help with some of the more resistant > symptoms.  I’ve tried a whole bunch of other stuff (mostly SSRIs), but > I’m a little worried about trying lithium because of it’s reputation > as a "hard" drug. Please let me know about any of the > positive/negative aspects of lithium, as well as side effects, etc. > Anything at all would be appreciated. > Elsa

Hi Elsa, I know that lithium is used as an adjunct drug with other meds, though off hand, I cannot tell you which; and it’s important to know that there is not bad interaction and to know the dose, etc.  Please excuse me for this rough reply; I am presently going through a drug experience myself, but I am attaching a site you may find useful with many links on lithium info. As for lithium being a "hard drug" – I am not sure what you mean by this.  It is the gold standard for bipolar depression. take care Squiggles http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lithium/

Response:

Welcome to the ng, Here is some info: > Can anyone tell me about lithium augmentation with SSRIs or SNRIs or > whatever?  I’m taking 225mg Effexor XR and my doctor has suggested > using lithium augmentation to help with some of the more resistant > symptoms.  I’ve tried a whole bunch of other stuff (mostly SSRIs), but > I’m a little worried about trying lithium because of it’s reputation > as a "hard" drug. Please let me know about any of the > positive/negative aspects of lithium, as well as side effects, etc. > Anything at all would be appreciated.

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/lithaug.htm Lithium augmentation in treatment-resistant depression: meta-analysis of placebo-controlled studies by Bauer M, Dopfmer S Department of Psychiatry, Klinikum Benjamin Franklin, Freie Unversitat Berlin, Germany. J Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 Oct; 19(5):427-34 ABSTRACT The addition of lithium to the treatment regimens of previously nonresponding depressed patients has been repeatedly investigated in controlled studies. The authors undertook this meta-analysis to investigate the efficacy of lithium augmentation of conventional antidepressants. An attempt was made to identify all placebo-controlled trials of lithium augmentation in refractory depression. Only double-blind studies that involved participants who had been treated with lithium or placebo addition after not responding to conventional antidepressants were to be included in the meta-analysis. Further inclusion criteria were the use of accepted diagnostic criteria for depression and the use of response criteria based on the acceptable measurement of depression as an outcome variable. Studies were located by a search of the MEDLINE database, a search in the Cochrane Library, and an intensive search by hand of reviews on lithium augmentation. Nine of 11 placebo-controlled, double-blind studies were included in this meta-analysis. Aggregating three studies with a total of 110 patients that used a minimum lithium dose of 800 mg/day, or a dose sufficient to reach lithium serum levels of > or = 0.5 mEq/L, and a minimum treatment duration of 2 weeks, the authors found that the pooled odds ratio of response during lithium augmentation compared with the response during placebo treatment was 3.31 (95% confidence interval, 1.46-7.53). The corresponding relative response rate was 2.14 (95% confidence interval, 1.23-3.70), the absolute improvement in response rate was 27% (95% confidence interval, 9.8%-44.2%), and the number of patients needed to be treated to obtain one more responder was 3.7. Inclusion of six more studies that fulfilled inclusion criteria but which treated subjects with additional lithium for less than 2 weeks or with a lower lithium dose (total, 234 patients) resulted in even higher estimates. Lithium augmentation seems to be the treatment strategy in refractory depression that has been investigated most frequently in placebo-controlled, double-blind studies. The authors conclude from this meta-analysis that with respect to efficacy, lithium augmentation is the first-choice treatment procedure for depressed patients who fail to respond to http://bipolar.about.com/library/weekly/mpreviss.htm Go to site and select from the following: 04/02/01 – Lithium: The First Mood Stabilizer Part 4: Whoa, Fat! We conclude our look at Lithium be examining the possible reasons why so many people gain weight – sometimes a LOT of weight – while taking it. 03/26/01 – Lithium: The First Mood Stabilizer Part 3: Major Precautions and Warnings Important facts about this medication, including salt intake, pre-existing conditions, interactions with other medications and other issues.. 03/19/01 – Lithium: The First Mood Stabilizer Part 2: Tests and Toxicity Tests have to be run before starting lithium therapy to make sure it is safe and appropriate for the patient. More tests have to be done throughout the course of therapy to make sure blood levels are within the safe and effective range, because lithium overdose can be very dangerous. 03/12/01 – Lithium: The First Mood Stabilizer Part 1: History, and a Mystery Solved It took nearly 50 years for scientists to start figuring out how lithium works. In Part 1 of a four-part series, we look at the history of lithium and the ground-breaking research that unlocked its mysteries. antidepressant monotherapy.

Response:

<snip> I’ve used lithium as an augmenting agent, and I must say that I really liked it. It did help my anti-depressant, and it very nicely leveled out the worst of my rapid mood swings from depressed but coping to desperately self-destructive. Did have a couple drawbacks though. I had a persistent hand tremor, usually annoying but tolerable though sometimes bad enough to make handwriting difficult and handling coins a disaster. Ultimately, I had to go off lithium because it was reducing my thyroid function too much. A couple months of thyroid supplements took care of that problem. Bright blessings. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

Question:

I am deeply sorry about your suffering. For now you may want to take some Kava root for the start-up anxiety on the Prozac. (http://biopsychiatry.com/kava/index.html) As for the insomnia, look into some over-the-counter Benadryl (diphenhydramine), or Nytol (doxylamine succinate: http://www.nytol.com).  These are antihistamines with long and safe records As for the 4 weeks that it takes for a med to kick in, know that those 4 weeks are going to come and go whether you want them to or not, so you might as well work on your emotional wellness in that time with medical treatment… Keeping your best interest in mind, Sal

Response:

newsreader… > Aug. 7, 2001 — What do you give the menopausal depressed woman who’s > tried everything? Effexor, according to a study presented recently at > the World Assembly for Mental Health in Vancouver.

It’s got so many scary side effects and withdrawal problems, why did they give it to a 20 year old that hasn’t tried anything else yet?  I don’t want to be on this if I’m never going to be able to get off it! — "The Truth knocks on the door, and you say, ‘Go away – I’m looking for the truth.’ And so it goes away. Puzzling." — Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng, > I am doing bad now.

I am so sorry… >Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away > from myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems > sleeping. I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was > perscribed was prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for > a med to kick in. What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard > prozac makes you more anxious at first couple days.

It sounds as if you do need an AD. Why are you fearful of Prozac? There are many med options. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.85773 Antidepressant Effexor Good Choice for Older Women Launches Two-Pronged Attack on Depression By

Question:

My symptoms coming of Effexor were worse than yours, but I had to come off it much faster. Anything that boosts your serotonin would help with the symptoms. Prozac for about a week worked great for me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I have been on Effexor for almost a year. I started at 37.5mg and was > boosted to 75 after a few week, then to 150. I was then on 225 for a few > weeks and found that was TOO much and went back to 150. I have been on that > for the better part of the year. Since then many things have changed for me > and my dr and I felt I could try coming off. > I have been doing the weekly weaning of 150 for a week, 75 for a week and > 37.5 for a week. Then 37.5 every other day and now I am off completely. > I am having the tell tale withdrawal symptoms such as dizziness etc.. but > something started anew today. Besides having uncontrollable start/stop > crying spells I seem to feel obsessive and compulsive. I seem to be anal > about everything and every little thing is making me feel uncomfortable. > One example is I purchased a fairly expensive DVD boxed set and when I > opened it and removed the security label that they put over the spine, it > tore a part of the DVD insert. I got so upset I nearly threw it against the > wall. > I kept my cool and called the store and they will graciously give me a > replacement. > Is this normal? > Thanks for any help. > — > ~dev > All my outgoing e-mail’s are certified virus free. > Scanned with Norton Anti-Virus (http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/) > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > Eureka! (I found it!) but rather, ‘hmm…. that’s funny…’ " >  - Isaac Asimov

Response:

My husband went off Effexor a few months ago and what you are describing is pretty much what he told me .  What you are feeling as obsessive behavior, I saw as increased anxiety…his moods were extremely labile, everything bothered him immensely, and , as you said, he felt uncomfortable.  It’s like your skin is too thin and all your nerves are right under the surface. If you can get your physician to prescribe tablets (which you can break into smaller parts , unlike the caps) it might help you taper off more gradually…gradually is the key, but it seems there isn’t much you can do to totally avoid withdrawal. Cutting your dose in half every week is just too fast, unless you want to suffer. Good luck to you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I have been on Effexor for almost a year. I started at 37.5mg and was > boosted to 75 after a few week, then to 150. I was then on 225 for a few > weeks and found that was TOO much and went back to 150. I have been on that > for the better part of the year. Since then many things have changed for me > and my dr and I felt I could try coming off. > I have been doing the weekly weaning of 150 for a week, 75 for a week and > 37.5 for a week. Then 37.5 every other day and now I am off completely. > I am having the tell tale withdrawal symptoms such as dizziness etc.. but > something started anew today. Besides having uncontrollable start/stop > crying spells I seem to feel obsessive and compulsive. I seem to be anal > about everything and every little thing is making me feel uncomfortable. > One example is I purchased a fairly expensive DVD boxed set and when I > opened it and removed the security label that they put over the spine, it > tore a part of the DVD insert. I got so upset I nearly threw it against the > wall. > I kept my cool and called the store and they will graciously give me a > replacement. > Is this normal? > Thanks for any help. > — > ~dev > All my outgoing e-mail’s are certified virus free. > Scanned with Norton Anti-Virus (http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/) > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, > the one that heralds new discoveries, is not > Eureka! (I found it!) but rather, ‘hmm…. that’s funny…’ " >  - Isaac Asimov

Response:

The real problem with Venlafaxine is its very short half-life compared to other SSRIs like Prozac. That means that even if you miss just one tablet, you’ll start to feel the withdrawal quite quickly. I’m on a program right now to try and get me off this medication. Yes, it’s not an addiction in the truest sense of the word, but if you are on a medication, and stopping produces horrific withdrawal, isn’t that addiction-when you can’t stop taking a medication? Almost cold turkey.On occasions when I can no longer stand the withdawal effects, one tablet alleviates the symptoms within the hour. Frightening. I wish I’d never even set my eyes on this stuff. Oh, and if some people say that the withdrawal symptoms are a reappearance of what you started on the med for, tell them  they are talking bollocks; these are new and real effects brought on by the Effexor. Best Wishes everyone, Peter Finan

Response:

Thanks. I figured as much. Well time to throw on the headphones and tell everyone to leave me alone for a while. thanks, ~dev

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I have been on Effexor for almost a year. I started at 37.5mg and was > boosted to 75 after a few week, then to 150. I was then on 225 for a few > weeks and found that was TOO much and went back to 150. I have been on that > for the better part of the year. Since then many things have changed for me > and my dr and I felt I could try coming off. > I have been doing the weekly weaning of 150 for a week, 75 for a week and > 37.5 for a week. Then 37.5 every other day and now I am off completely. > I am having the tell tale withdrawal symptoms such as dizziness etc.. but > something started anew today. Besides having uncontrollable start/stop > crying spells I seem to feel obsessive and compulsive. I seem to be anal > about everything and every little thing is making me feel uncomfortable. > One example is I purchased a fairly expensive DVD boxed set and when I > opened it and removed the security label that they put over the spine, it > tore a part of the DVD insert. I got so upset I nearly threw it against the > wall. > I kept my cool and called the store and they will graciously give me a > replacement. > Is this normal? > Thanks for any help. > — > ~dev > Yes, sadly the quality of DVD’s is quite poor, bye and large, especially > Christina Agulara ones, or Brittany Spears. > To some degree, yes it is normal, dev.  For some people SSRI’s cause the > body to become physically addicted, or what the psychiatric industry > calls SSRI withdrawal syndrome. > All I can suggest is going for a week or two, if you can stand it and > seeing how you feel. > I suggest that you keep a journal from day to day so you can gauge how > it’s going…. > All my support for your recovery from that nasty drug! > –Steve

Response:

How did you know 225 was too much? I’m on that now and I’ve not noticed any differance than from prozac, paxil, lower doses of effexor.  I remember once when i was on 150 effexor and i ran out of pills- talk about hell! no-one understood what i meant. I hope i won’t run out now. I dunno if there helping me but i darent come off them john

Response:

I noticed I was have MAD mood swings. I began to close myself off and was afraid to even go out of the house. Once I dropped back to 150 I was ok. ~dev

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How did you know 225 was too much? I’m on that now and I’ve not noticed any > differance than from prozac, paxil, lower doses of effexor.  I remember once > when i was on 150 effexor and i ran out of pills- talk about hell! no-one > understood what i meant. I hope i won’t run out now. I dunno if there helping > me but i darent come off them > john

Response:

> Thanks. I figured as much. Well time to throw on the headphones and tell > everyone to leave me alone for a while. > thanks, > ~dev

For what it’s worth, drinking lots of spring water(at least 1 1/2 liters a day) and avoiding stuff like caffeine, sugar, and fried stuff might make it easier, try drinking fruit juices too, but in the end, it will be tough I am afraid! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Hi, >>I have been on Effexor for almost a year. I started at 37.5mg and was >>boosted to 75 after a few week, then to 150. I was then on 225 for a few >>weeks and found that was TOO much and went back to 150. I have been on > that >>for the better part of the year. Since then many things have changed for > me >>and my dr and I felt I could try coming off. >>I have been doing the weekly weaning of 150 for a week, 75 for a week > and >>37.5 for a week. Then 37.5 every other day and now I am off completely. >>I am having the tell tale withdrawal symptoms such as dizziness etc.. > but >>something started anew today. Besides having uncontrollable start/stop >>crying spells I seem to feel obsessive and compulsive. I seem to be anal >>about everything and every little thing is making me feel uncomfortable. >>One example is I purchased a fairly expensive DVD boxed set and when I >>opened it and removed the security label that they put over the spine, > it >>tore a part of the DVD insert. I got so upset I nearly threw it against > the >>wall. >>I kept my cool and called the store and they will graciously give me a >>replacement. >>Is this normal? >>Thanks for any help. >>– >>~dev >Yes, sadly the quality of DVD’s is quite poor, bye and large, especially >Christina Agulara ones, or Brittany Spears. >To some degree, yes it is normal, dev.  For some people SSRI’s cause the >body to become physically addicted, or what the psychiatric industry >calls SSRI withdrawal syndrome. >All I can suggest is going for a week or two, if you can stand it and >seeing how you feel. >I suggest that you keep a journal from day to day so you can gauge how >it’s going…. >All my support for your recovery from that nasty drug! >–Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > I have been on Effexor for almost a year. I started at 37.5mg and was > boosted to 75 after a few week, then to 150. I was then on 225 for a few > weeks and found that was TOO much and went back to 150. I have been on that > for the better part of the year. Since then many things have changed for me > and my dr and I felt I could try coming off. > I have been doing the weekly weaning of 150 for a week, 75 for a week and > 37.5 for a week. Then 37.5 every other day and now I am off completely. > I am having the tell tale withdrawal symptoms such as dizziness etc.. but > something started anew today. Besides having uncontrollable start/stop > crying spells I seem to feel obsessive and compulsive. I seem to be anal > about everything and every little thing is making me feel uncomfortable. > One example is I purchased a fairly expensive DVD boxed set and when I > opened it and removed the security label that they put over the spine, it > tore a part of the DVD insert. I got so upset I nearly threw it against the > wall. > I kept my cool and called the store and they will graciously give me a > replacement. > Is this normal? > Thanks for any help. > — > ~dev

Yes, sadly the quality of DVD’s is quite poor, bye and large, especially Christina Agulara ones, or Brittany Spears. To some degree, yes it is normal, dev.  For some people SSRI’s cause the body to become physically addicted, or what the psychiatric industry calls SSRI withdrawal syndrome. All I can suggest is going for a week or two, if you can stand it and seeing how you feel. I suggest that you keep a journal from day to day so you can gauge how it’s going…. All my support for your recovery from that nasty drug! –Steve

Response:

Hi, I have been on Effexor for almost a year. I started at 37.5mg and was boosted to 75 after a few week, then to 150. I was then on 225 for a few weeks and found that was TOO much and went back to 150. I have been on that for the better part of the year. Since then many things have changed for me and my dr and I felt I could try coming off. I have been doing the weekly weaning of 150 for a week, 75 for a week and 37.5 for a week. Then 37.5 every other day and now I am off completely. I am having the tell tale withdrawal symptoms such as dizziness etc.. but something started anew today. Besides having uncontrollable start/stop crying spells I seem to feel obsessive and compulsive. I seem to be anal about everything and every little thing is making me feel uncomfortable. One example is I purchased a fairly expensive DVD boxed set and when I opened it and removed the security label that they put over the spine, it tore a part of the DVD insert. I got so upset I nearly threw it against the wall. I kept my cool and called the store and they will graciously give me a replacement. Is this normal? Thanks for any help. — ~dev All my outgoing e-mail’s are certified virus free. Scanned with Norton Anti-Virus (http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/) "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but rather, ‘hmm…. that’s funny…’ "  - Isaac Asimov

Response:

Question:

Hello – I’m Peter and I’m new to this newsgroup. I had been on Prozac for 6 years and then it stopped working for me. The doc put me on Effexor, and it worked a treat-all the old anger and anxiety went away and then I began to notice things. I had real trouble reaching orgasm, and when I did the ejaculation and orgasm were separated, which was really weird. My wife thought it was her fault, but I begin to realise it wasn’t. The worst effect by far is when I miss a tablet-that’s right, JUST ONE !! I begin to get confused and my eyes begin to, well, how can I put it, buzz and hurt, as if some extra fluid had just been pumped in. The other day I was driving back from Coventry to Bradford (150 miles) and I began to feel the eyes going, and that’s when I realised I’d forgotten the tablet. Now I know it has a short half life, but this is crazy – how can I ever hope to get off it, as I am trying to do now with the help of therapy. It’s really horrible; some people might say that these are symptoms of my condition reappearing, but I say NO! This never happened before Effexor. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Can anyone say that any of the above has happened to them? Thanks everyone, I know you can ease my mind and I really appreciate you help and input. Bye for now, Peter Finan

Response:

> Paxil and Effexors half life make them the worse antidepressants to stop… > people frequently get horrific withdrawal  especially where they stop > abruptly…  you have to taper off very very gradually..

I’ve been on both at one time or another for prolonged periods of time. I stopped each one of them cold turkey without any noticeable adverse effects. > As people get down to lowest possible dosage of Paxil or Effexor…..some > have used Prozac then,   tapering off that…then as well, ..to keep the > worse of the symptoms of withdrawal at bay…and reported it works to do > that.. > Sexual dysfunction as you reported is Frequent side effect of the SSRI et al

Effexor is not an SSRI, and has notably fewer sexual side effects than the SSRIs. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> or modern class of Antidepressants.. > Hello – I’m Peter and I’m new to this newsgroup. I had been on Prozac for > 6 > years and then it stopped working for me. The doc put me on Effexor, and > it > worked a treat-all the old anger and anxiety went away and then I began to > notice things. I had real trouble reaching orgasm, and when I did the > ejaculation and orgasm were separated, which was really weird. My wife > thought > it was her fault, but I begin to realise it wasn’t. The worst effect by > far is > when I miss a tablet-that’s right, JUST ONE !! I begin to get confused and > my > eyes begin to, well, how can I put it, buzz and hurt, as if some extra > fluid > had just been pumped in. The other day I was driving back from Coventry to > Bradford (150 miles) and I began to feel the eyes going, and that’s when I > realised I’d forgotten the tablet. Now I know it has a short half life, > but > this is crazy – how can I ever hope to get off it, as I am trying to do > now > with the help of therapy. It’s really horrible; some people might say that > these are symptoms of my condition reappearing, but I say NO! This never > happened before Effexor. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Can anyone > say > that any of the above has happened to them? Thanks everyone, I know you > can > ease my mind and I really appreciate you help and input. > Bye for now, > Peter Finan

Response:

> Now I know it has a short half life, but > this is crazy – how can I ever hope to get off it, as I am trying to do now > with the help of therapy. It’s really horrible; some people might say that > these are symptoms of my condition reappearing, but I say NO! This never > happened before Effexor. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Can anyone say > that any of the above has happened to them? Thanks everyone, I know you can > ease my mind and I really appreciate you help and input.

I took Effexor XR for quite a while, and I don’t recall having any trouble going off it nor having particularly adverse reactions to missing a single dose. It is possible and not necessarily an unpleasant experience. I probably had the sexual dysfunction, but I didn’t get a sufficient response to it to be interested in having sex in the first place. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

Question:

> Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?   > I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I > will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc > etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month > before I get back on my feet ?

I did go off Effexor, and I don’t recommend stopping suddenly. If you’re starting from 225 mg per day, I’d certainly suggest reducing the dose over several weeks. Six months seems like quite a long time, but as usual I think it’s wiser to listen to one’s physician than to random strangers posting in Usenet. You mention that you won’t be taking any anti-depressant at all for two weeks to "clear your blood". A period like this is required when changing between some anti-depressants, but not with SSRIs such as Effexor, I believe. — Francais / English / Esperanto Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

Response:

ive gone from over 300mg to 0 straight away with no problems at all. one time i went straight off 75mg and had terrible problems.   its rather strange,  just a matter of luck i guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi all, >            I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided >to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 >mg every month. >            This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks >without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before >the other SSRI does its effects… >            I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on >another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal >symptoms during these 6 months. >            Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it >COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >(because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head >ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 >month before I get back on my feet ? >            I would appreciate comments on this. >            Thank you.

Response:

>             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it > COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >             I would appreciate comments on this.

I’ve gone ‘cold turkey’ on effexor a number of times. Some times I don’t feel a thing, and other times I get wierd, wierd delusions & hallucinations. I smell things that aren’t real. Buildings seem totally out of proportion. Sometimes get REALLY manic. Other times, it’s like I went from taking sugar pills to not taking sugar pills. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. I suggest making sure you have an ample supply of effexor on hand, if you do start getting bad side effects, so you can get back on the horse, and start tapering. HTH, B

Response:

> Id recommend finding another doctor.  You can go off Effexor much faster than > 37.5 mg a month, especially if your intention is to switch to another > antidepressant afterward.

i wouldnt go that far as calling your dr. an idiot…… most doctors are not careful enough, so on that level you are lucky. however, going on and off meds is a very individual experience and really the best guide is how YOU FEEL. if you really need to get on another med, taper a little faster if six months  seems too slow. but i would not try to ‘cram’ that isnt the way drugs work. tapering is really the best even if you taper a little faster. having a dr that errs on the side of caution is not a bad thing…. but the reality is that every situation is totally different and what really matters is how these medicines affect *the patient* at any given moment. some people are not so sensitive and need to taper  faster and get on that new med. so its really the individuals choice. the best thing a doctor can do in my opinion is listen to and carefully monitor the *individual* patient. that will work better than any formula because every single patient is a completley different case. some people are simply very sensitive to meds. some people are not so. if you dont feel anything adverse, taper a little faster. if you feel something adverse, taper a little slower. the whole idea is how you feel, right? ive known my <good> dr five years now and he lets me change dosages at will without even calling him becuase he knows that i listen to what the drugs do to me. thats the best way imo. my previous doctors did not listen to what i TOLD THEM about how i felt and how the drugs affected me, and that was a big problem. if you and your dr have a good working relationship, then you can adjust your taper according to how it affects you individually……that would be my suggestion….. it really is  easier on your brain….. (and a mind is a terrible thing to reduce to waste if you ask me) good luck…. annas holes in whats left of my reason holes in the knees of my blues odds against me been increasin’. but i’ll pull through never could read no road map and i dont know what the weather might do but i’ll drink sweet wine and see the dark star shine ive got a feelin theres no time to lose……. no time to lose….. ~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~

Response:

Hi all,             I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 mg every month.             This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before the other SSRI does its effects…             I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal symptoms during these 6 months.             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month before I get back on my feet ?             I would appreciate comments on this.             Thank you.

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