SSRIs

Question:

For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could this be related to going off the neurontin? Michele

Response:

Heya, Michelle,     Yeah, definitely. It’s not a good thing to do, at all. I understand you were kinda forced to, but you coulda had a major seizure.      Not chewing you out, ‘cuz I went off prednisone all at once myself, due to non-stop bleeding. Another no-no. I knew I was risking having a psychotic episode, but I figured who could tell? I also risked having my adrenals fail. Shame on us both, huh?      The neurontin’s working well for me and I’m aware it’s one of the ones to titer down from. Hope you’re aware of that now, too. Whoops! Hugs from Rosie — "If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."  – Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a > day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken > the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it > until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, > feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could > this be related to going off the neurontin? > Michele

Response:

>For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a >day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken >the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it >until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, >feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could >this be related to going off the neurontin? >Michele

I had mood problems when I went off Neurontin (rage mostly), so my personal response is yes it "could" be related.  I’ve seen others post of mood disturbances when coming off too, though most don’t seem to have the problem. – Jen

Response:

From what I’ve experienced (myself and with my kids),  about all of the neurologic (including psychiatric) medications should not be discontinued suddenly. Interesting note.  About a year ago, I had to take an antibiotic for a week or so that looked kind of like the Prozac that I take daily.  For two days, I didn’t realize that I wasn’t taking my dose of prozac in the morning with my other meds. (I’d look in my hand, see the green and white pill and I figured that I was okay, still not awake enough to realize that it was the antibiotic, not the prozac.)  I got pretty depressed after just two days, then at night after those days, as I was taking the antibiotic I realized that I’d missed the prozac.  This wasn’t a placebo affect thing – I didn’t know that I wasn’t taking it – but I did notice that I was really down.  I hurried and took my prozac and haven’t missed a day since. I talked to my psychiatrist and told him of the event.  Researchers have noticed a change in mood with just one day being missed of the SSRIs like Prozac.  Kind of wild – it takes 4-6 weeks to work, but the small change in blood level from just one day being missed. To me it was just more evidence of my body’s need for the medicine. Depression is a physical illness. Sorry for rambling.  Be careful with the meds.  We’ve all done what you have done.  (I did it with blood pressure medicine when first married – wanted to wait until payday.  My wife got pretty upset with me – I guess she wanted me to stick around.) Sorry to ramble. Martin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a > day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken > the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it > until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, > feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could > this be related to going off the neurontin? > Michele

Response:

>For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a >day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken >the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it >until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, >feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could >this be related to going off the neurontin? >Michele

It certainly could have been the neurontin Michele.  Neurontin is one of those medicines a person should not stop taking all at once.  I know you couldn’t help it this time. Neurontin should be tapered slowly to withdraw from.  I guess the worst thing it can cause is seizures.  Seems rather odd since it is an anti-seizure medicine huh? I take 600mg of neurontin 2 x’s a day and then 900mg at bedtime.  My doctor rx’d 900mg 3 times a day, but I couldn’t handle feeling sleepy without being able to sleep, so I talked with him and we changed it to the 600mg and 900 mg. Still get sleepy during the day, but with my weird sleeping habits any more, it doesn’t really matter. Sue We survive together or not at all.

Response:

I think that the big seizure risk for many of these medicines in ceasing them is because they are used  by people with epilepsy to control seizures. Without the seizure control medication, there is nothing to control the epilepsy, therefore the risk of seizures becomes higher. Some medications (such as Klonopin – aka clonazepam – benzodiazapine used for anxiety but also for seizures) will cause anybody seizures if stopped suddenly after being used for awhile. Key is to not run out of the medicine and to not cease it without medical supervision.  (I’m not being judgemental – I certainly have done that before!!  In a perfect world the medical supervision would be available without judgement and the financial worries wouldn’t exist.)  Same holds true for the long term pain meds – but how many of us have been left stranded by our docs – but that is a different subject. Martin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a >day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken >the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it >until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, >feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could >this be related to going off the neurontin? >Michele > It certainly could have been the neurontin Michele.  Neurontin is one of those > medicines a person should not stop taking all at once.  I know you couldn’t > help it this time. > Neurontin should be tapered slowly to withdraw from.  I guess the worst thing > it can cause is seizures.  Seems rather odd since it is an anti-seizure > medicine huh? > I take 600mg of neurontin 2 x’s a day and then 900mg at bedtime.  My doctor > rx’d 900mg 3 times a day, but I couldn’t handle feeling sleepy without being > able to sleep, so I talked with him and we changed it to the 600mg and 900 mg. > Still get sleepy during the day, but with my weird sleeping habits any more, it > doesn’t really matter. > Sue > We survive together or not at all.

Response:

>I think that the big seizure risk for many of these medicines in ceasing >them is because they are used  by people with epilepsy to control seizures. >Without the seizure control

Actually it is simpler than that….these meds "lower the seizure threshold"…ie makes it "easier" for one to have a seizure …don’t ask me the mechanism..cuz I surely don’t understand it either!!!  So once your brain gets "used to" these anti seizure meds (even if you were never prone to seizures)…if you stop abruptly…boom..you may well have a seizure!!!  so the gradual taper is the way to avoid..hopefully the risk of having seizure!!! phew…talk about creating a problem where one never existed!! rb Hawki

Response:

I can not take prozac.  It makes me paranoid.  Man I thought my world was coming to an end.  I thought I was faking my pain and everything.  I thought I was going to jail. I was confessing I was faking everything.  I was plain an simple not faking at all.  I started throwing up come to find out my gallbladder needed to be removed.  They put me in the hospital because I was dehydrated.  I could not remember to ask the doc for my prozac.  When I did the nurse’s would say they would call him.  On the 3rd day my paranoia started to let up.  Now they will not give me any AD drugs in fear it will bring it on again.  To some it is a God sent drug to some it is a suicide drug.  I truly can see why it got the bad publicity it did when it first came out.  I used to think it was a great pill.  If you ever start feeling paranoid talk to your doc immediately PLEASE.  I mean drive as fast as u can to the doctor or ER.  It is one bad drug for me.  I took that drug for years and felt great.  Then all of sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks.  It was not a pleasant experience. Bonner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From what I’ve experienced (myself and with my kids),  about all of the > neurologic (including psychiatric) medications should not be discontinued > suddenly. > Interesting note.  About a year ago, I had to take an antibiotic for a week > or so that looked kind of like the Prozac that I take daily.  For two days, > I didn’t realize that I wasn’t taking my dose of prozac in the morning with > my other meds. (I’d look in my hand, see the green and white pill and I > figured that I was okay, still not awake enough to realize that it was the > antibiotic, not the prozac.)  I got pretty depressed after just two days, > then at night after those days, as I was taking the antibiotic I realized > that I’d missed the prozac.  This wasn’t a placebo affect thing – I didn’t > know that I wasn’t taking it – but I did notice that I was really down.  I > hurried and took my prozac and haven’t missed a day since. > I talked to my psychiatrist and told him of the event.  Researchers have > noticed a change in mood with just one day being missed of the SSRIs like > Prozac.  Kind of wild – it takes 4-6 weeks to work, but the small change in > blood level from just one day being missed. > To me it was just more evidence of my body’s need for the medicine. > Depression is a physical illness. > Sorry for rambling.  Be careful with the meds.  We’ve all done what you have > done.  (I did it with blood pressure medicine when first married – wanted to > wait until payday.  My wife got pretty upset with me – I guess she wanted me > to stick around.) > Sorry to ramble. > Martin > For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a > day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken > the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it > until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, > feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could > this be related to going off the neurontin? > Michele

Response:

Question:

Jen, I hope you’re feeling better! I held onto Ultram and took one about 6 months later. Exactly the same itchiness, rashes, dizziness and extreme nausea appeared after just one and I didn’t feel right for a couple of days, so be cautious with trying it later since you reacted badly to it. In my case it didn’t work that well anyway, so the risk/benefit ratio wasn’t worth it for me, but if it works well for you, maybe the side effects are worth it … . I too find it difficult to find meds that work and don’t cause me intolerable side effects. I hope you find a painkiller that works and doesn’t make you feel awful Keep your chin up! Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thank you, Jay, and everyone else who replied.  I think my response to > Ultracet (Ultram) was quite similar to yours.  After about a week my > body simply rejected the stuff (this has happened to me before – side > effects worsen until I can’t tolerate the med any longer, rather than > acclimating to it).  Then, when I stopped it, I had one day of the bad > reaction to the drug, followed by a few days of – I don’t know, I > guess it still being in my system or getting out or withdrawaing  - > got me.  I was ill for a few days, none as bad as the first.  And what > makes me think serotonin was implicated is I had radical mood swings > and terrible nightmares over those few days.  No energy, so lots of > sleep and lots of nightmares.  One days I was depressed and suicidal, > the next day I was irritated and anxious, and at times I felt > everything was absolutely fine.  I developed a rash one night that I > think was more anxiety than drug related, but as soon as I saw it I > freaked, which made it worse. > I was also extremely thirsty, my body telling me to flush out  the > med, I’m assuming. > Thank you for telling me your story.  It helped me understand. > Btw, the med worked wonders on my pain and I’ll hold onto it for an > as-needed crisis.  Perhaps not being on a regular dose it will be > tolerable.  Only time and my readiness to try will tell, though. > It’s extremely hard for me to find medications I can tolerate – > everything from antibiotics to antidepressants.  Bummer, having so > many medical problems and all… but, life is unfair I suppose.  I do > what I can. > Thanks again.  I wanted to check in a respond since everyone was so > kind in taking the time to answer my questions. > Jen

Response:

Thanks so much for the reply.  I was actually on Ultracet, not Ultram – which shows where my head is – but I guess the acetominphen isn’t the issue anyway. I have absolutely terrible reactions to SSRIs so your story actually sounds like me.  I think after my first dose yesterday (one week into it) I felt my body just reject the stuff – too much med.  I stopped it (Ultracet).  Couldn’t get out of bed the rest of the day.  Took a shower late afternoon, got so tired, fell into bed shaking. Today, still extremely tired, sweaty, brain fuzz, plus whatever I mentioned below.  Feels like how people describe the flu I guess. I’m glad to hear it passed quickly for you.  I’m very sensitive to meds and I’m so sick of feeling sick!  I really am. Thanks again.  Hope I’m making sense Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >As far as I know, Celebrex doesn’t cause dependency (it’s a COX-2 >inhibitor). One week on Ultram 3 tab a day sounds too short of cause >dependency too. >However I know that Ultram can cause some very weird reactions if you stop >it suddenly. I became allergic to it suddenly after taking it for a couple >of weeks and when I stopped it abruptly because of it, I had uncommanded >limb movements which was quite scary, then lost memory for the rest of the >night. It only lasted a day, but it was very unpleasant. According to my >husband, ER doctor said that he’d seen it many times in people suddenly >stopping Ultram (I don’t remember anything that happened in ER). I remember >reading that it’s supposedly due to it affecting the serotonin level, but I >might have got that wrong. I was really tired for about a week afterwards. > don’t see my first post yet but I forgot to mention this major > headache and nausea, bad stomach.  More probably.  Nauseous exhausted > jittery.  Did my first post come through? > Question was after a year and half on 400 mgs celebrex a day stop cold > turkey do you get withdrawal. > Or one week on Ultram 3 tabs a day, do you get withddrawal? > Feverish too. > Feels like drugs.

Response:

Sometmes we never make sense… Dont worry … Ronnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks so much for the reply.  I was actually on Ultracet, not Ultram > – which shows where my head is – but I guess the acetominphen isn’t > the issue anyway. > I have absolutely terrible reactions to SSRIs so your story actually > sounds like me.  I think after my first dose yesterday (one week into > it) I felt my body just reject the stuff – too much med.  I stopped it > (Ultracet).  Couldn’t get out of bed the rest of the day.  Took a > shower late afternoon, got so tired, fell into bed shaking. > Today, still extremely tired, sweaty, brain fuzz, plus whatever I > mentioned below.  Feels like how people describe the flu I guess. > I’m glad to hear it passed quickly for you.  I’m very sensitive to > meds and I’m so sick of feeling sick!  I really am. > Thanks again.  Hope I’m making sense > Jen >As far as I know, Celebrex doesn’t cause dependency (it’s a COX-2 >inhibitor). One week on Ultram 3 tab a day sounds too short of cause >dependency too. >However I know that Ultram can cause some very weird reactions if you stop >it suddenly. I became allergic to it suddenly after taking it for a couple >of weeks and when I stopped it abruptly because of it, I had uncommanded >limb movements which was quite scary, then lost memory for the rest of the >night. It only lasted a day, but it was very unpleasant. According to my >husband, ER doctor said that he’d seen it many times in people suddenly >stopping Ultram (I don’t remember anything that happened in ER). I remember >reading that it’s supposedly due to it affecting the serotonin level, but I >might have got that wrong. I was really tired for about a week afterwards. >> don’t see my first post yet but I forgot to mention this major >> headache and nausea, bad stomach.  More probably.  Nauseous exhausted >> jittery.  Did my first post come through? >> Question was after a year and half on 400 mgs celebrex a day stop cold >> turkey do you get withdrawal. >> Or one week on Ultram 3 tabs a day, do you get withddrawal? >> Feverish too. >> Feels like drugs.

Response:

Jen, I react badly to quite a few meds (including SSRIs) myself, so I can sympathize! I hope you’ll be feeling better very soon. (By the way, I hope you don’t have a flu as well as a reaction to meds!) Jay

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks so much for the reply.  I was actually on Ultracet, not Ultram > – which shows where my head is – but I guess the acetominphen isn’t > the issue anyway. > I have absolutely terrible reactions to SSRIs so your story actually > sounds like me.  I think after my first dose yesterday (one week into > it) I felt my body just reject the stuff – too much med.  I stopped it > (Ultracet).  Couldn’t get out of bed the rest of the day.  Took a > shower late afternoon, got so tired, fell into bed shaking. > Today, still extremely tired, sweaty, brain fuzz, plus whatever I > mentioned below.  Feels like how people describe the flu I guess. > I’m glad to hear it passed quickly for you.  I’m very sensitive to > meds and I’m so sick of feeling sick!  I really am. > Thanks again.  Hope I’m making sense > Jen

Response:

how long ago did you stop the SSRIs? They can have some pretty aggresive withdrawals and it may take a while to get through them… – Ъ

Question:

>However the bad thing is that the cogentin is extremely sedating >and makes me get out of breath faster,

So much for wanking it at porn sites.

Response:

>Who has heard of adding anti-cholinergics like Cogentin to their SSRIs to get >them to activate decently again?

You’re the usenut Pdoc – tell us!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ive been taking the anti-parkinsons/EPS drug Cogentin for the past week. I find > its quite sedating. It has gotten rid of all tight muscle related problems Ive > been having. I didnt like it until today. Today I realized suddenly, > unexpectely I began getting that old familiar "SSRI activation" real strongly. > Like when my SSRIs used to activate good. Took me by total surprise. Starting > to get nausea too, like when SSRIs used to activate good for me and give me > nausea, akathisia, dizziness, anxiety, etc. the first two weeks. > Who has heard of adding anti-cholinergics like Cogentin to their SSRIs to get > them to activate decently again? I cant believe this, this has totally take me > by surprised. However the bad thing is that the cogentin is extremely sedating > and makes me get out of breath faster, even though I feel relaxed.

It’s a double miracle!! First the dreaded anti-cholinergics make Eric feel better, then he recovers enough from his depression that he does not need ECT. Praise the lord, you better tithe 20% of whatever salary this miracle the lord has wrought enables you to make, Eric.  How about that, huh the lord surely do act in strange and mysterious ways, huh?

Response:

>First the dreaded anti-cholinergics make Eric feel better, then he recovers >enough from his depression that he does not need ECT.

Gee – I see you were as surprised as myself. Cogentin is the answer!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks Peter, I actually dont have that many side effects  with the ACE. Its > kind of hard to describe, its  just that the ACE interferes with the Luvox. I > seriously doubt Id have any better luck with another blood pressure pill. Its a > hard to explain problem. I think what I am going to have to do is add some low > dose atypial anti-psychotic to get the SSRI fully activated, then perhaps throw > in an anticonvulsant on top of it all to help get rid of the "numbess."

Response:

YEAAAAAAAAA!! i am rejoicing with you!! cal

Response:

>Zoloft. Stopped taking the Cogentin cause it was revving my BP up, guess it was >those anti-cholinergic side effects.

BP no doubt meaning Bipolar after the manic posting of wav files. Is the shock jock still on? Why waste 3 years talking about it – you could have had relief 3 years ago! Attention seeker?

Response:

Question:

i heard this on a movie one time.  does this really help some people, or is it bullshit?  i had side effects which included severe panic attacks.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->i heard this on a movie one time.  does this really help some people, or is >it >bullshit?  i had side effects which included severe panic attacks. >If youre having panic attacks from meds your Pdoc needs to know that. One >thing >you should know in case you are taking SSRIs by any chance is that SSRIs can >worsen anxiety in panic prone individuals during the first couple weeks. Then >the anti-panic effect of the SSRIs kicks in usually and you start feeling >relaxed. >Many times Pdocs will prescribe a benzo to help you get thru the first couple >weeks of an SSRI, like Klonopin. >Eric >Basic course in logic 101: >Psychiatry is bullshit…psychiatrists are full of shit

Eric no offense pal, but are you really that nice, or really that stupid? Either way, I pray for you my friend.  But honestly, no offense, did those ECT procedures work for the best?  I believe that post, made by MaryPoppedCherry (which is a hint right there) was just a JOKE.  Common sense will take you a long way, but hell, maybe I should try those ECT’s, maybe just shocking the common sense out of me would be a better way of living.  I guess i’d rather be dumb and happy than to be living in this stresszone.

Response:

>ome people are labeled NICE because their STUPID

some people are labeled nice because THEIR stupid?  Umm try THEY’RE! practice what you preech! LMFAO Jason

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ome people are labeled NICE because their STUPID >some people are labeled nice because THEIR stupid?  Umm try THEY’RE! >practice what you preech! >LMFAO >Jason

sue me, i hated english and literature!  ohhhhh let me put more time in my usenet postings, pull out my dictionary and spell checker and make sure my posts are very articulate.   there, they’re out now!  oops, i just found a problem Jason, my dictionary says that there isn’t a definition for PREECH. Also, learn how to highlight text why don’t ya! ps:  practice what you PREACH

Response:

> sue me, i hated english and literature!  ohhhhh let me put more time in my > usenet postings, pull out my dictionary and spell checker and make sure my > posts are very articulate.   > there, they’re out now!  oops, i just found a problem Jason, my dictionary says > that there isn’t a definition for PREECH. > Also, learn how to highlight text why don’t ya! > ps:  practice what you PREACH

Uummm…..he spelled it "preech" on purpose lmao! — Amelia

Response:

>Many times Pdocs will prescribe a benzo to help you get thru the first couple >weeks of an SSRI, like Klonopin.

Bullshit, drug pusher, prove it.

Response:

>maybe I should try those ECT’s, maybe just shocking the >common sense out of me would be a better way of living.

No, it popular in NC though.

Response:

>Eric no offense pal, but are you really that nice, or really that stupid?

Stupid

Response:

>Uummm…..he spelled it "preech" on purpose lmao!

Mind reader?

Response:

>If youre having panic attacks from meds your Pdoc needs to know that.

A sign meds are fucked up.

Response:

>sue me, i hated english and literature!  ohhhhh let me put more time in my >usenet postings, pull out my dictionary and spell checker and make sure my >posts are very articulate.  

Eric?

Response:

>Many times Pdocs will prescribe a benzo to help you get thru the first couple >weeks of an SSRI, like Klonopin.

Squiggles?

Response:

>SSRIs by any chance is that SSRIs can >worsen anxiety in panic prone individuals during the first couple weeks.

They can worsen panic PERIOD.

Response:

> >Uummm…..he spelled it "preech" on purpose lmao! > Mind reader?

Yea. Why do you ask? — Amelia

Response:

> >> Mind reader? >Yea. >Why do you ask? > If you are a mind reader, why are you asking? LOL

I slipped. Back on track now though. Damn. — Amelia

Response:

Question:

> Take deep breaths…maybe a hot bath.  This too shall pass.  It is > only temporary.  It can…and it will…get better. > –bethster

thats a really good suggestion, there are many natural things that you can try that can help relieve your anxiety too… try adding a few drops of lavender oil into your bath… it has relaxing properties, also helps you to sleep… chamomile tea is very good for anxiety… i also do relaxation exercises, very simple ones, starting with my feet, i slowly clench one muscle at a time and relax it, and work my way up to my head… while im doing this i just take nice relaxed deep breaths… the effort of concentrating on doing this can be enough to distract you for a while too, and it feels like you’re giving your whole body a massage which is rather nice ))) distraction is very useful for anxiety and panic, if you feel able to try reading a book, or phoning a friend for a chat, things that occupy your mind help you to stop thinking about the feelings you’re getting… which can make you worry all the more, and round it goes… you can stop it in its tracks sometimes just simply by distracting yourself with something nice… i know some more specific techniques if you’re having worries about particular things or events rather than general feelings of anxiety and panic… they’re a bit more involved though. take care and let us know how you are doing m — ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ iriXx version: 3.12 GMU/FA/O/U/AT d? s-:+ a C++++$ UL>++++$ UI>+++ P+ L+++ E W+++$ N* o- K- w– O- M+$ V– PS+++ PE— Y++ PGP(++) t- 5? X? R !tv b+++ DI(+) D? G+ e+++(++++) h* r++ x? UF+++

Response:

>I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from >myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. >I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was >prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. >What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more >anxious at first couple days.

It sounds like you need to go back on meds.  You might need to try something else besides prozac, but you ought to at least try whatever prozac you have left and make an appointment to see a psychiatrist as soon as you can.  The doctor can prescribe clonazepam, xanax, or numerous other drugs to help with anxiety.

Response:

(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))) it does sound like you’re having a very tough time hon, i would say, please do visit your family doctor or p-doc as soon as you can, im sure they can give you some relief that will help straight away.. i was in a similiar situation 4 years ago and was prescribed 2 meds, one to relieve the panic straight away (and it was non-addictive too) and am antidepressant as a longer-term solution. there are many different types of meds, do explain to your doc the troubles that you had with prozac, because docs do understand that people react differently to different meds. i am taking Zoloft (sertraline, known as Lustral in the UK) which has helped me a lot with anxiety as well as depression, it has a calming effect on me. Zoloft is an SSRI antidepressant, like prozac, but doesnt have the tension side effects, there are many alternatives that your doctor would be able to suggest. i do hope that you can get some relief soon, we are here if you feel you want to write more or just let out how you’re feeling take care m > I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

– ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ iriXx version: 3.12 GMU/FA/O/U/AT d? s-:+ a C++++$ UL>++++$ UI>+++ P+ L+++ E W+++$ N* o- K- w– O- M+$ V– PS+++ PE— Y++ PGP(++) t- 5? X? R !tv b+++ DI(+) D? G+ e+++(++++) h* r++ x? UF+++

Response:

> I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

Is there some place local that you can get a hold of? Like you I haven’t had any meds for about two months now, and my pdoc retired. Last week was bad, and I got hold of a centre here that deals with people in trouble like ours. I didn’t consider myself an emergency case, so I met an assessment person, and have an appointment with another pdoc shortly. I could have been dealt with immediately. Maybe even emerge would work for you if desparate. Sorry I can’t be more help than this. jodelli

Response:

Hello Marypoohbear, Things can get very frightening at times can’t they?  I have trouble with panic attacks and that is even with meds so I know you must be really miserable.  Is there anyone there with you tonight?  Is there someone there you know and trust that you can talk to just to get some of your feelings out?  Or maybe a friend you can call and talk to?  Sometimes it helps a little to talk about all that is bothering you so at least you can get your feelings out.  I find that when I hold my feelings in that they grow and become more painful.  If there is no one there you can talk to then maybe there is some kind of a crisis line you can call? Tomorrow can you call and set up an appointment with your doc or pdoc so you can see about getting back on meds?  If you feel this badly then you would probably benefit from getting whatever kind of help you could get.  In the meantime if you feel too badly tonight please do not hesitate to go to the emergency room and explain how you are and have been feeling.  They should be able to help you for now and maybe even  help you to get in to see a pdoc sooner than if you just called to set up an appointment. Whatever you do, you know you can always write your feelings here and you will find others that are understanding of them.  I have done that many times before and I have always found others that knew what I was talking about and were very understanding of my feelings. I hope you feel better soon and you are able to get some help, Hugs, Bonnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

Response:

Hi Marypoohbear,     I’m sorry that you are in such a sad state of mind.  If you are frightened and feeling alone please try to get help.  Talk to your pdoc for example; or if you feel the situation has reach a urgent level, go to the emergency ward.     What ever you decide, please know that people are thinking about you and you are not completely alone.  I wish you the best. Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

Response:

I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more anxious at first couple days.

Response:

Question:

hi there. yea im on neurontin as a mood stabilizer. xanax for anxiety(i have it badly) and zyprexa to chill me out from leaping off tall buildings at a single bound. you have a good xmas too! harp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> thanks.i will do my best.so far so good. > and i have been on zoloft for a number of years now with good results. > of course they could be better. > im on 200 mgs a day. > whats ther highest dosage they can use??? > harp > as far as i know the highest dose for sertraline hydrochloride is > 250mg… 200 is the standard highest dose though. it makes sense if > you’re on that much that it would be very painful for you cutting > down… i was on 150mg but it aggravated my hypomania so i cut back to > 100mg… that was very hard though, i had a big depressive reaction even > though i did it in small stages, i actually split the pills in half for > a week and took 125mg… i do think its good stuff…. it keeps me > balanced enough while i’m working on the deep things and long-term > solutions with my therapist. yeah, i couldbe better too… maybe adding > a mood stabiliser would be a good idea… do you take a MS ? > hope you’re feeling more stable now, and that you can enjoy a peaceful > day tomorrow, > take care > m > — > ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ > iriXx > www.iriXx.org > "… faith is being sure of what we hope for, > and certain of what we cannot see"

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> thanks.i will do my best.so far so good. > and i have been on zoloft for a number of years now with good results. > of course they could be better. > im on 200 mgs a day. > whats ther highest dosage they can use??? > harp

as far as i know the highest dose for sertraline hydrochloride is 250mg… 200 is the standard highest dose though. it makes sense if you’re on that much that it would be very painful for you cutting down… i was on 150mg but it aggravated my hypomania so i cut back to 100mg… that was very hard though, i had a big depressive reaction even though i did it in small stages, i actually split the pills in half for a week and took 125mg… i do think its good stuff…. it keeps me balanced enough while i’m working on the deep things and long-term solutions with my therapist. yeah, i couldbe better too… maybe adding a mood stabiliser would be a good idea… do you take a MS ? hope you’re feeling more stable now, and that you can enjoy a peaceful day tomorrow, take care m — ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ iriXx www.iriXx.org "… faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we cannot see"

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thanks.i will do my best.so far so good. and i have been on zoloft for a number of years now with good results. of course they could be better. im on 200 mgs a day. whats ther highest dosage they can use??? harp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> thanks A BUNCH! > im stayin on it. > i havent seen the new pdoc yet so i dont know what he will want.im sure if > im(reasonably) stable he will keep me on what i take. > my recently"dismissed" pdoc wanted me off all meds. > she was terrible! > harpy > yes, that does sound terrible. i sacked one of my p-docs who decided to > mess with my meds and put me on reboxetine which gave me a terrible > anxiety reaction (((. then he tried to blame it on me cos "im ill, i > cant possibly know"… i thought those sorta doctors werent around any > more… but ho hum… anyhow after him i saw my current p-doc. she just > wanted to make sure i was stable because that incident messed me up so > much. i am really glad of this, she doesnt even want to try me on a mood > stabiliser yet, even though its gonna be the next logical thing, because > she thinks i need time just being stable on what im on. i think thats > really important – always remember that its your choice in the end, and > the doctor is there for you (and not the other way round, the way some > of them seem to like to think! ;o))) > i would think if you are stable he would be happy to keep you on zoloft. > it has a good reputation for being calming too, which im sure has a > slight calming effect on my hypomania as well as helping lots with my > depression. just make it clear to him you want to stay stable, im sure > he will be happy to keep you on it )))). yeah, stay on it until you > see him too… coming off any AD is hard work… and there’s no harm you > can do in taking it, its not like its addictive or anything…. > hope you can have some peace of mind this xmas ))) > take care > m > — > ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ > iriXx > "… faith is being sure of what we hope for, > and certain of what we cannot see"

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> thanks A BUNCH! > im stayin on it. > i havent seen the new pdoc yet so i dont know what he will want.im sure if > im(reasonably) stable he will keep me on what i take. > my recently"dismissed" pdoc wanted me off all meds. > she was terrible! > harpy

yes, that does sound terrible. i sacked one of my p-docs who decided to mess with my meds and put me on reboxetine which gave me a terrible anxiety reaction (((. then he tried to blame it on me cos "im ill, i cant possibly know"… i thought those sorta doctors werent around any more… but ho hum… anyhow after him i saw my current p-doc. she just wanted to make sure i was stable because that incident messed me up so much. i am really glad of this, she doesnt even want to try me on a mood stabiliser yet, even though its gonna be the next logical thing, because she thinks i need time just being stable on what im on. i think thats really important – always remember that its your choice in the end, and the doctor is there for you (and not the other way round, the way some of them seem to like to think! ;o))) i would think if you are stable he would be happy to keep you on zoloft. it has a good reputation for being calming too, which im sure has a slight calming effect on my hypomania as well as helping lots with my depression. just make it clear to him you want to stay stable, im sure he will be happy to keep you on it )))). yeah, stay on it until you see him too… coming off any AD is hard work… and there’s no harm you can do in taking it, its not like its addictive or anything…. hope you can have some peace of mind this xmas ))) take care m — ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ iriXx "… faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we cannot see"

Response:

thanks A BUNCH! im stayin on it. i havent seen the new pdoc yet so i dont know what he will want.im sure if im(reasonably) stable he will keep me on what i take. my recently"dismissed" pdoc wanted me off all meds. she was terrible! harpy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes, it does… i take zoloft and i find if i miss a dose , i’ll be a > weepy wreck by the evening. im on 100mg. > my pdoc has always said to me if it helps being on it then i should stay > on it… we’ve talked about the alternative of switching me to a MS, but > she doesnt want to do that just because stability is so important to me > right now. i reckon you could make that point to your p-doc as well, > that being stable is what you need…. is he trying to take you off it? > i’d suggest dont worry about decreasing it right yet…. just try to > keep stable, and raise the point with him if and when he suggests coming > off it… sometimes you might need to be on them for some time (im > thinking maybe i might need to be on them for life or at least another > few years…) > take care and i hope you feel better soon > ((((((((((((((harpy)))))))))))))))) > m > does it exist? sure feels like it when i try to get off it no matter how > little i decrease it. > i dont WANNA  get off it but it would be good to have something concrete to > take to my new pdoc should he try and get me off the med. > my head feels like a damned baloon when i try and come off that stuff and i > cant think or function. > but it helps me tenfold being on it. > any good advice on this is welcome or input. > thanks > harpy > — > ~~~~~>><:>~~~~ > iriXx > www.iriXx.org > "…faith is being sure of what we hope for, >   and certain of what we cannot see"

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thanks jim.yep..those are the bad effects described to a tee. im staying on it thats for sure!!! harp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I took Zoloft for about a year and then the pdoc changed me over to > wellbutrin SR 300MG.  I experienced a lot of headaches and malaise during > that time but she still changed it.  I hope you can persuade him to keep you > on it if it works for you. > Jim > does it exist? sure feels like it when i try to get off it no matter how > little i decrease it. > i dont WANNA  get off it but it would be good to have something concrete > to > take to my new pdoc should he try and get me off the med. > my head feels like a damned baloon when i try and come off that stuff and > i > cant think or function. > but it helps me tenfold being on it. > any good advice on this is welcome or input. > thanks > harpy

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yes, it does… i take zoloft and i find if i miss a dose , i’ll be a weepy wreck by the evening. im on 100mg. my pdoc has always said to me if it helps being on it then i should stay on it… we’ve talked about the alternative of switching me to a MS, but she doesnt want to do that just because stability is so important to me right now. i reckon you could make that point to your p-doc as well, that being stable is what you need…. is he trying to take you off it? i’d suggest dont worry about decreasing it right yet…. just try to keep stable, and raise the point with him if and when he suggests coming off it… sometimes you might need to be on them for some time (im thinking maybe i might need to be on them for life or at least another few years…) take care and i hope you feel better soon ((((((((((((((harpy)))))))))))))))) m > does it exist? sure feels like it when i try to get off it no matter how > little i decrease it. > i dont WANNA  get off it but it would be good to have something concrete to > take to my new pdoc should he try and get me off the med. > my head feels like a damned baloon when i try and come off that stuff and i > cant think or function. > but it helps me tenfold being on it. > any good advice on this is welcome or input. > thanks > harpy

– ~~~~~>><:>~~~~ iriXx www.iriXx.org "…faith is being sure of what we hope for,   and certain of what we cannot see"

Response:

does it exist? sure feels like it when i try to get off it no matter how little i decrease it. i dont WANNA  get off it but it would be good to have something concrete to take to my new pdoc should he try and get me off the med. my head feels like a damned baloon when i try and come off that stuff and i cant think or function. but it helps me tenfold being on it. any good advice on this is welcome or input. thanks harpy

Response:

I took Zoloft for about a year and then the pdoc changed me over to wellbutrin SR 300MG.  I experienced a lot of headaches and malaise during that time but she still changed it.  I hope you can persuade him to keep you on it if it works for you. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> does it exist? sure feels like it when i try to get off it no matter how > little i decrease it. > i dont WANNA  get off it but it would be good to have something concrete to > take to my new pdoc should he try and get me off the med. > my head feels like a damned baloon when i try and come off that stuff and i > cant think or function. > but it helps me tenfold being on it. > any good advice on this is welcome or input. > thanks > harpy

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Question:

Now that I am coming off effexor xr and it will take some time I think…..now its time to think of what med to change to….quickly my hang-ups…..worrier….anxiety….very high pressure job…..a mind that never stops thinking…..endless self analysis…always taken though responsibility for things that are out of my control….these are just to start with.. once I was on top of the world……now I look up…..

Response:

> Now that I am coming off effexor xr and it will take some time I > think…..now its time to think of what med to change to….quickly my > hang-ups…..worrier….anxiety….very high pressure job…..a mind that > never stops thinking…..endless self analysis…always taken though > responsibility for things that are out of my control….these are just to > start with.. > once I was on top of the world……now I look up…..

And a bird craps on your head, right?  LOL  Couldn’t resist.  Is it just human nature to experience what you’ve described above?  Or, is it all part of depression?  I’m kicking Wellbutrin.  I have nowhere to go now.  I’m so tired of the side effects, I’m just like an old, wet, rung out, worn out dish rag.  I’ve used Effexor XR 2 years ago and a number of others.  Have you tried Wellbutrin, Paxil or any others? Cheers, Carrie

Response:

I’m curious as to why we go off meds…..do they cease to stop the depression?    I just stopped effexor and went straight to Remeron…..I’ve never been advised of weaning off one to begin another, although my research into these things would suggest that I do wean off. The Remeron made me totally undepressed for two days, but the past two days I’m on edge…..much the same way I felt with Effexor and Celexa. I am going to post a new thread re xanax. Jeanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now that I am coming off effexor xr and it will take some time I > think…..now its time to think of what med to change to….quickly my > hang-ups…..worrier….anxiety….very high pressure job…..a mind that > never stops thinking…..endless self analysis…always taken though > responsibility for things that are out of my control….these are just to > start with.. > once I was on top of the world……now I look up….. > And a bird craps on your head, right?  LOL  Couldn’t resist.  Is it just > human nature to experience what you’ve described above?  Or, is it all part > of depression?  I’m kicking Wellbutrin.  I have nowhere to go now.  I’m so > tired of the side effects, I’m just like an old, wet, rung out, worn out > dish rag.  I’ve used Effexor XR 2 years ago and a number of others.  Have > you tried Wellbutrin, Paxil or any others? > Cheers, Carrie

Response:

i have just gone back on meds, and started with the ZOLOFT sample pack of i am also VERY TIRED of this "on again, off again" — read and post daily! rosie http://www.geocities.com/barrettetc/rosie.html

Response:

I came over to this group today (have been at alt.support. depression.recovery for awhile) because I’m facing the possibility of accepting some anti-depressant prescription later this week.  I’ve been in something I’ve called an "anxiety crisis" since last Sept., more recently getting some of the anxiety under control, and being told, by therapist, that I’m now experiencing depression.  I keep telling myself that I "should" be able to overcome this problem… through therapy, altered self-talk, disphragmatic breathing, and other techniques. Strong resistance to going on medication (though I did accept and try some Xanax during part of this time period, but didn’t notice any success with it).  I think my docotor is ready to prescribe Paxil or something like that. I resist partly due to concerns about money (which helped trigger this "anxiety crisis"), and partly because I don’t want to have to rely on chemistry to affect my moods.  One option might be to accept prescription for some milder (?)[and cheaper?] medications.  Someone suggested Elavil?, and one of the drugs you’ve been discussing here.  Effexor, I think? I’m interested in some informed opinions.  My own depression doesn’t seem so severe as some of the people I encounter here. My mornings are usually "bad", waking up at five a.m., and not being able to get back to sleep.  But many days I manage to make myself DO things, and sometimes wind up later in the day with feeling O.K. (mostly, when I’m NOT "O.K.", I think I’m in "fight or flight" response.  Then.. due to some new thought, or a different activity?, etc.?, I can suddenly find myself feeling "relief".  It’s like the tension which has been strangling me is suddenly gone… and I can be relaxed for awhile.  I’m trying to learn some techniques… so that I can create that relaxation to some extent on demand.  Currently I feel like a victim of my moods.  I’d like to have some power over them. Do some of the drugs have this effect?  Could medication give me some control?  If so… what might you recommend? thanks for any suggestions… dennis

Response:

Actually it was very funny cuz my bird actually did do that! lol Yes all things I listed below could be just describing life but its life that has put the screws to me….see when you usually sit across the table(I am a social worker) and work out other people’s troubles you don’t always see it that way….every day I wake I never know what emotion or person I will be today. Since I have to where the painted face all day at work it makes it hard to do it at home. After my time as a work aholic for many years I now know that my time is deserved to my family. I just wish I could give then stability in my personality. Admitting that I needed help was the hardest thing I have ever done. See I know I have not been "right" ever since childhood. No blame to anyone Unfortunately there are no family dr’s around my area so I am stuck with the walk in clinic. The last dr recommended that I drop effexor xr and try Paxil. I am not sure what to think?????

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now that I am coming off effexor xr and it will take some time I > think…..now its time to think of what med to change to….quickly my > hang-ups…..worrier….anxiety….very high pressure job…..a mind that > never stops thinking…..endless self analysis…always taken though > responsibility for things that are out of my control….these are just to > start with.. > once I was on top of the world……now I look up….. > And a bird craps on your head, right?  LOL  Couldn’t resist.  Is it just > human nature to experience what you’ve described above?  Or, is it all part > of depression?  I’m kicking Wellbutrin.  I have nowhere to go now.  I’m so > tired of the side effects, I’m just like an old, wet, rung out, worn out > dish rag.  I’ve used Effexor XR 2 years ago and a number of others.  Have > you tried Wellbutrin, Paxil or any others? > Cheers, Carrie

Response:

(snip). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes you dont sound that bad…this NG tends to attract people with more severe > mental illness problems, including a lot with whats known as "treatment > resistant" depression. >My mornings are usually "bad", waking up at five a.m., >and not > being able to get back to sleep.  But many days I manage to > make myself DO things, and sometimes wind up later in the day > with feeling O.K. (mostly, when I’m NOT "O.K.", I think I’m > in "fight or flight" response.  Then.. due to some new thought, > or a different activity?, etc.?, I can suddenly find myself > feeling "relief".  It’s like the tension which has been strangling > me is suddenly gone… and I can be relaxed for awhile.  I’m > trying to learn some techniques… so that I can create that > relaxation to some extent on demand.  Currently I feel like a > victim of my moods.  I’d like to have some power over them. > Do some of the drugs have this effect?  Could medication give me > some control?  If so… what might you recommend? > thanks for any suggestions… dennis > You sound like youd be a perfect candidate for drugs Dennis. Your attitudes > against meds are silly. The meds can help you. The modern class meds in > particular are very safe to take, they really are very safe. The older psych > meds tended to have a lot more side effects and people many times didnt like > taking them. But the modern ones like SSRIs,  Effexor, Buspar, etc. are > actually quite effective and very safe in most cases. > Eric > Eric – THANKS for your thoughts on this.  I’m seeing a doctor

tomorrow.. and will probably go on meds (much better informed than last time I checked on it). Dennis  (tried to email you directly… no luck) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

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Question:

Does anyone know of / have any experience with drugs that suppress REM sleep? I know I fall into the category of those depressed who benefit from sleep deprivation. Sleeping less usually guarantees a happier, more centered and energetic mood the next day for me. I understand from the last time I poked around in medline that it’s the reduction in REM sleep that is thought to be therapeutic, and not necessarily sleep as a whole. I’ve gone through various SSRI’s (now on sertraline) and they didn’t have a noticeable difference on my mood. If anything they made me more lethargic. I’ve tried changing my sleeping patterns but the problem is that when waking up at the hour I want to it just seems insurmountable to get out of bed. I end up laying there and then waking up 4 hours later, feeling drained. Things that screw with sleeping patterns (i.e. alcohol) typically have a positive benefit on my mood the day after. Sleeping more usually leaves me feeling worse. If anyone can offer any help, insight or experience, I’d appreciate it. Thanks.

Response:

I’m taking 40mgs daily of Paxil, which made me very sleepy, so I started to take Mirapex, a Parkinson’s drug that is only being used recently to treat depression. I started on .25 mgs daily, went up to .5, then .75, then 1. The more I took, the more it lessened the effect of Paxil, but the more energy I had. When I hit .75 and 1 mgs a day, I was sleeping about 4 hours a night and was less tired, but my anxiety came back. I also had nightmares. I took Wellbutrin SR for a week, and I was sleeping 6 hours a night and had more energy. KC

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Question:

I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; i don’t know if this is due to the drug or just a shitty attitude; Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; and i would think that it must be against the Charter of this newsgroup. I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating and that it can do a lot of harm to people who are already struggling and relying on this for a connection to a supportive net of cyberfriends. Squiggles

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles

Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not depressed, in a good way of course. As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor. When I go on antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some. Im sorry that my warped jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it. I get sick and fucking tired of listening to anti-psychiatry medication assholes like Steven Kaess and this FGM character coming onto ASDM and putting down depressives who take antidepressants. Its downright incorrect information and its discriminatory towards we the mentally ill. I dont like coming onto ASDM to see Kaess and FGM’s smartalecky condescending tones towards depressives such as myself. FGM’s posts are downright insulting to depressives and he isnt joking about it either. Someone must stand up to these individuals Irene. I know you are an extremely sensitive person Irene, you have told me that you are in private Emails. I realize you are probably a "people pleaser" and hate to see violent arguments or disagreements among people. You probably like to see compromise and agreement among people. I understand that but you also need to understand some people dont see it that way, some people believe in fighting back against the discrimination against the severely mentally ill. Thats why many times I am extremely sarcastic and pissy towards individuals such as Steve Kaess, Bob Whelan and this FGM character. Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles. They should be your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness. These people do not represent your interests at all and they need to be stood up to and put in their places. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles > Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by > depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not > depressed, in a good way of course. As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I > cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor. When I go on > antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some. Im sorry that my warped > jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything > goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it.

Eric, It’s true that this is an alt. group; nevertheless i think that others too are insulted by your outbursts; > Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles. They should be > your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness. These people do not > represent your interests at all and they need to be stood up to and put in > their places. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

I don’t know who my friends or my enemies are on the NET frankly, because i think there is no way of telling, and because i believe that these terms are kind of meaningless anyway on the NET, i concentrate on expressing my own views as best i can, and i also just try to get practical advice – but at the end of the day, i have to be the judge – the thing about the NET, especially in support mode, is that you are ultimately in control; if you decide to give up that control, you give up to unknown factors. Anyway, i can see that you have your cowboy hat on and you’re riding a very colourful horse; as i said, it’s very hard to prove who is who on the NET, and whether you are abrasive or not, i think that it’s only fair to give proof of identification when making personal accusations. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles > Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by > depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not > depressed, in a good way of course.

Yes I am sure it would help you in, say, a prison experience, or perhaps the Marines. > As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I > cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor.

And you are out of touch with reality and demonstrating strong  symptoms of mania. > When I go on > antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some.

Yes your Ho post had em laughing, eric.  Do you like the idea of woman being slapped around to shut them up?  Perhaps such images cause you intense excitement, eric.  After all beating up people weaker then you is a good way to feel good about yourself.  If you are a psychopath. > Im sorry that my warped > jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything > goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it.

We do, too bad you seem unable to , eric. > I get sick and fucking tired of listening to anti-psychiatry medication > assholes like Steven Kaess and this FGM character coming onto ASDM and putting > down depressives who take antidepressants.

Your inability to comprehend my posts is most unsettling.  I suggest you try to read slower, perhaps sounding out each word.  Subtle seems to be a word you never learned.  FGM is a different person then me, I have no resemblance to FGM.  I do not say that  folks chose to be depressed.  I do think you chose the dx because depression in the medical model is much easier to accept and does not require you to take any responsibility for your true state. > Its downright incorrect information

Even though whenever I post strong proof of my statements you ignore it.  Simple denial will no longer work, eric. > and its discriminatory towards we the mentally ill.

There is no discrimination toward the mentally ill in my posts, but perhaps you might have some elements of a persecution complex, eric. > I dont like coming onto > ASDM to see Kaess and FGM’s smartalecky condescending tones towards depressives > such as myself.

You are not representative of the great majority of depressives.  You are like a black man who acts badly, perhaps breaks the law, and then blames the result on his race.  The way you are treated is not in any respect indicative of peoples general attitude toward depressives in general, eric.  It’s just an indication of the opinion people hold about you. > FGM’s posts are downright insulting to depressives and he isnt > joking about it either. Someone must stand up to these individuals Irene.

And you are the sheriff round these parts, eric? > I know you are an extremely sensitive person Irene, you have told me that you > are in private Emails. I realize you are probably a "people pleaser" and hate > to see violent arguments or disagreements among people. You probably like to > see compromise and agreement among people. I understand that but you also need > to understand some people dont see it that way, some people believe in fighting > back against the discrimination against the severely mentally ill. Thats why > many times I am extremely sarcastic and pissy towards individuals such as Steve > Kaess, Bob Whelan and this FGM character. > Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles.

You are unable to differentiate between enemies and those who disagree with you. Further evidence of your impaired cognitive ability.  Or perhaps you just never had the ability in the first place, lost boy. > They should be > your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness.

So here is the eric’s logic tree: Steve disagrees with me I am mentally ill Steve attacks my ideas about mental illness Steve attacks me Steve is my enemy Steve is the enemy of every person with mental illness If you accept this, squigglie, I am your enemy. > These people do not > represent your interests at all

So you are able to dictate to people what their interests are.  It is interesting to see you acting in the fashion of an authority figure in the ‘total institution’ model you presented recently.  Your idolization of psychiatrists is so total that you now posit that you are the person who should define others legitimate interests, eric. > and they need to be stood up to

Standing up to a person does not include calling them names, it does consist of offering counter arguments and facts, rather then your reiteration of your undefended themes, eric. > and put in > their places.

What place would that be, lost boy? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric > My defense system requires me to claim that steroids caused my > depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://www.ect.org

Response:

Here is the latest study on Luvox for anxiety, albeit with children: Walkup, John T.. Labellarte, Michael J.. Riddle, Mark A.. Pine, Daniel S.. Greenhill, Laurence. Klein, Rachel. Davies, Mark. Sweeney, Michael. Abikoff, Howard et al. Fluvoxamine for the Treatment of Anxiety Disorders in Children and Adolescents. New England Journal of Medicine. 344(17):1279-1285, April 26, 2001: Our report demonstrates the efficacy of fluvoxamine in the treatment of children with social phobia, separation anxiety disorder, or generalized anxiety disorder. Fluvoxamine treatment was generally well tolerated but was associated with significantly more gastrointestinal symptoms, as found in other trials, [6,7,13-17] and with greater increases in children’s levels of activity than was placebo. Effects on activity have been found in previous trials of selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors in children, particularly in children younger than 13 years of age, [7] but such effects typically have not been found in adults. [12-14] This increase in activity in children may relate to subjective effects in adults taking these drugs, who sometimes report increases in energy. Regardless of the mechanism, the side effects in the fluvoxamine group were usually mild. Only 5 of the 63 children in the fluvoxamine group discontinued treatment as a result of adverse events, as compared with 1 of the 65 children in the placebo group. The efficacy of treatment with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors for anxiety in children in our trial is consistent with data obtained in studies of adults. Panic disorder, social phobia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder are the three specific anxiety disorders in adults whose treatment with these drugs has been studied most intensively. [12-15] In general, approximately 50 to 70 percent of patients with these disorders respond to therapy with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors; response rates in patients with panic disorder are usually higher than in patients with the other disorders. The results of our trial in children with social phobia, separation anxiety disorder, and generalized anxiety disorder are also consistent with the results of trials of these drugs in children with obsessive-compulsive disorder and major depression. [6,7,16,17,26]

Response:

goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to > increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have > noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; > i don’t know if this is due to the drug > or just a shitty attitude; > Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; > and i would think that it must be against > the Charter of this newsgroup. > I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating > and that it can do a lot of harm to people > who are already struggling and relying on > this for a connection to a supportive net > of cyberfriends. > Squiggles

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken wings and learn to fly all your life you were only waiting for this moment to arrive ~

Response:

> goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite > now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary.

you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite >now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. > I agree…since going back on the meds my blood pressure is now under control > and I can tolerate antidepressants again like I used to. And by going back on a > simple SSRI, I find myself no longer the sappy, super guilty, worried, > pussified wussyboy I was off meds for most of the past seven or eight months. I > find my "old"  personality returning somewhat. Still nowhere even close to > normal but certainly better than I am off the meds. Id say Im currently at oh, > 30%. While for most of the past six or seven months Id say I was oh,  5%. > Sappy, self effacing and "super nice" is not the real Eric. I do indeed have a > warped sense of humor. Maybe I should keep it off the newsgroup, I dont know. > Lord knows any oldtimers from ASDM like Mike or some of the people who dont > hang out here anymore know how warped I can be. Its all in good fun though and > just joking around.

Further evidence of a pattern of refusal to take responsibility for your actions, eric. When do you cut your first album?  When daddies money comes through? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

Eric is simply feeling like himself again. Thats all there is too it. Hes not being aggressive because of the meds..DUH! He is feeling better enough to show his aggression now. This is natural for him. Enough of the anti med crusade ay? I’m not sure what is motivating your statements now. Do you?

Response:

>Anna likes hate and saying hateful things and likes Eric and anyone the more >hateful they get. For her the worse someone gets hateful wise, its her opinion >they are improving, while anyone getting better is from her perspective >becoming worse. >Linda

Anna is a very sweet person and a friend, when you push buttons bad things tend to happen with people. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite >> now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. >you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not >Squiggles > I dont think its true anna knows Eric better than you, Squiggles you seem to > know and understand Eric as well or better than anyone here. > Anna likes hate and saying hateful things and likes Eric and anyone the more > hateful they get. For her the worse someone gets hateful wise, its her opinion > they are improving, while anyone getting better is from her perspective > becoming worse. > Linda

Oh ok – then it may have been satire – went right by me; I don’t wanna play this game.  Leaves a bad taste for maybe days; Squiggles

Response:

> you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not

ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you hate my guts or want to see me dead. here goes. the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: he sounds more cheerful. he sounds more energetic. he is able to make jokes. he is able to joke about sex. he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control ummmm….. let see. will that do for now? we can discuss this without killing each other now, becuase we are CIVILISED human beings, rite? > Squiggles

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken wings and learn to fly all your life you were only waiting for this moment to arrive ~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not > ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a > meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other > potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to > realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you > hate my guts or want to see me dead. > here goes. > the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: > he sounds more cheerful. > he sounds more energetic. > he is able to make jokes. > he is able to joke about sex. > he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just > sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good > he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control > ummmm….. let see. > will that do for now? > we can discuss this without killing each other now, becuase we are > CIVILISED human beings, rite?

Diana, I take it you are referring to both of us when you say we are civilized – thanks.  Well, i have my uncivilized streak, but yes i appreciate your analysis of Eric.  I still say, he’s a writer  - nobody i know writes like that without an education in English Lit. Squiggles

Response:

> > ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a > meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other > potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to > realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you > hate my guts or want to see me dead. > here goes. > the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: > he sounds more cheerful. > he sounds more energetic. > he is able to make jokes.

All symptomatic of mania as well. > he is able to joke about sex.

His infamous ho posting?? > he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just > sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good

Yes his range of insults and curses is becoming more varied, and he has started to attempt to support his points by extensive misrepresentation of various sources. > he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control

Compliant with meds… > ummmm….. let see. > will that do for now?

Depends on your definition of better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

This is my medical history: back in 1994 to 1996, I was on and off Prozac three times. The first time was because I’d been depressed for a long time, from age 16 to about 25. It worked great, it really turned me around. The second and third time was to help me get through stressful situations I was in. It helped those times too, just not as quickly or as noticeably as the first. I was med-free for 1997, 1998, and 1999 and was doing OK. In May 2000 I crashed. It was anxiety more than depression though. I tried Prozac for the fourth time and it didn’t seem to help. During a brief hospital stay I switched to Effexor, and it helped alleviate the depression, but made me sleepy. My psychiatrist added Wellbutrin last winter, and I didn’t feel cured, but I was functioning OK. The Effexor was still making me sleepy, so I replaced it with Celexa. First 20mg/day, now 30mg/day. I’d been on Celexa for 11 weeks now along with 100mg/day wellbutrin. My depresion has gotten worse over the last few weeks. I use Clonazepam a few times a week when the anxiety gets rough, which seems to be getting worse. I’m anxious all the time, I feel kind of out of breath, I feel my heart pounding sometimes, I sleep a lot, feel sad, and cry more often. My psychiatrist doubts that Celexa is making me more depressed, but I’m not so sure. I’m looking for a little advice here. Should I withdraw from Celexa and Wellbutrin and cleanse my system and start over somehow? I really miss how Prozac helped me the first three times, and maybe I could go back to it, but I’m afraid my system has become immune to it somehow. Why isn’t the celexa helping at all? Should I try another SSRI or am I now immune to all SSRIs? Dammit dammit dammit I hate this. What should I do? Michael.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > This is my medical history: back in 1994 to 1996, I was on and off Prozac > three times. The first time was because I’d been depressed for a long time, > from age 16 to about 25. It worked great, it really turned me around. The > second and third time was to help me get through stressful situations I was > in. It helped those times too, just not as quickly or as noticeably as the > first. > I was med-free for 1997, 1998, and 1999 and was doing OK. > In May 2000 I crashed. It was anxiety more than depression though. I tried > Prozac for the fourth time and it didn’t seem to help. During a brief > hospital stay I switched to Effexor, and it helped alleviate the depression, > but made me sleepy. My psychiatrist added Wellbutrin last winter, and I > didn’t feel cured, but I was functioning OK. > The Effexor was still making me sleepy, so I replaced it with Celexa. First > 20mg/day, now 30mg/day. I’d been on Celexa for 11 weeks now along with > 100mg/day wellbutrin. My depresion has gotten worse over the last few weeks. > I use Clonazepam a few times a week when the anxiety gets rough, which seems > to be getting worse. > I’m anxious all the time, I feel kind of out of breath, I feel my heart > pounding sometimes, I sleep a lot, feel sad, and cry more often. My > psychiatrist doubts that Celexa is making me more depressed, but I’m not so > sure. > I’m looking for a little advice here. Should I withdraw from Celexa and > Wellbutrin and cleanse my system and start over somehow? I really miss how > Prozac helped me the first three times, and maybe I could go back to it, but > I’m afraid my system has become immune to it somehow. Why isn’t the celexa > helping at all? Should I try another SSRI or am I now immune to all SSRIs? > Dammit dammit dammit I hate this. What should I do? > Michael.

Hi Michael,  I’ve been on Prozac 4 different times, always coming back to it because it seemed to work the best. The way my pdoc explained it was that my brain became "bored" with the Prozac, and it didn’t work. It seem to give me a different "feel" each time I took it.  I’m not offering this as medical advice, only what *I* would do in your situation. Since the Celexa isn’t working after this long and the dose of Wellbutrin isn’t terribly high, I’d get an appointment ASAP and request another med, something "like prozac" (another SSRI like Zoloft or Paxil). When Prozac petered out on me, I started Wellbutrin and Zoloft, and feel excellant. I think it’s more or less trial and error, but don’t wait too long, your Celexa should have kicked in by now. I don’t know if your immune to SSRI’s, but Prozac died on me, and another worked fine. I’ve had many anti-depressants that may have well just been sugar pills because they did nothing, so don’t feel it’s just you. Good Luck, Dave —