SSRIs

Question:

Of course, the biggest problem about cross posting to so many groups is that you increase the amount of people available for mud slinging once it starts and as this very post shows, some of the posts go way off track to the original question.  I suspect this thread will run and run and run….. Regards, Andrew Austin. — NLP, Neurology, Schizophrenia:  http://www.23NLPeople.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hello, > > Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact > that > I posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. > It’s cross-posted; that’s bad enough. > Where is there a law against cross-posting? How is that "bad enough"? It’s > true that spammers and trolls often crosspost to many unrelated newsgroups. > It’s quite clear, as this guy said, that what he wrote is not spam or a > troll post, but some serious questions, and all the NGs he posted it to were > related to the topic. I don’t see anything wrong with that. What’s "bad" > about that? > > If you look at the list of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are > related to the topic. > I’m posting from a depression group, not a medication group. > Are you saying that a post about the medication Prozac, certainly one of the > major anti-depressants, is not relevant to a depression group?  Please > explain. Do you see any newsgroup he posted to, to which the topic of > "Prozac" is not relevant? Is this the first time someone discussed a > medication on the depression group? > > I don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone > reading > who could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting > to > several related newsgroups. > You’re too lazy to do any research. > Asking people to share their experiences with a medication is being "lazy"? > Somehow, I don’t get that connection. Discussion with others = laziness? > > If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. > I’ll do as I please, just as you have done. > Of course, you can do as you please. You can go stand on your head now for > an hour, if you wish. He was just making a request. Of course he cannot > force you to do anything. Is there something wrong with his making a > request, regarding how his message is replied to? > > I will probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one > you are reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might > never > see it. > You post to a NG you don’t read and you reckon you’re not a troll? > I don’t see anything in his post that has the slightest connection to being > a troll. Serious questions, related to all the newsgroups he posted to. > Nothing vaguely related to trollery in that. Trolldom has nothing to do with > what or how many newsgroups one posts to, but has to do with the content of > what is written. > > Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, > so do not reply via e-mail. > You’re such a man. Mashed email = troll. > Oh, you’re being macho now, insulting his manhood? A real man prints his > real e-mail address to his newsgroup posts, ensuring that he’ll get tons of > spam? A lot of people use fake e-mail addresses in their newsgroup posts, > including myself, as that’s the surest way to avoid spam, as spammers have > programs that "harvest" e-mail addresses from newsgroups. You sure have a > strange definition of what is a "troll". > There are plenty of real trolls on Usenet, especially on the mental health > newsgroups, people who ruin those NGs, filling them with trollery, so it’s > often hard to find the real discussions there. Trolls really wreck many > newsgroups. Better to spend your time fighting the real trolls, rather than > going after someone who starts a serious and relevant discussion. > (Actually, the e-mail address that you use here on the NG > not saying it isn’t, just that it doesn’t look like one to me. Is there a > real domain called "absinthebri.com"? If you yourself are using a fake > e-mail address (as many do on Usenet, to avoid spam and troll e-mails, > nothing wrong with it), why are you slamming him for doing the same thing?) > > Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs above in your reply. > Don’t tell people what to do. > Again, he made a request, he did not "tell you what to do". Yes Brian, you > are free to do as you wish. You are a free man. No one is "telling you what > to do". > > Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion of the issues > raised. > You post, I reply; you get what you get. You have shown Usenet no respect > whatsoever by cross-posting your troll instructions. > There is no Usenet law against cross-posting. And nothing at all trollish in > what he wrote. Again, if you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real > ones to go after. > If you are concerned about your medication see your doctor. You are > unlikely > to get medically qualified advice here (however valid the personal > experiences may be). > Of course, only one’s personal doctor can decide what medication is right > for the patient. That said, it’s understandable that people want to share > ideas, discuss experiences, etc. Otherwise, what are these medical > newsgroups for? You could say that to anyone writing to a medical newsgroup, > asking to hear about other’s experiences–"don’t write here, see your > doctor". What are newsgroups for then, IYO, if asking about other’s > experience with a condition, treatment, medication, etc. is taboo? > I think this guy (Edgar) would have been better off if he had skipped the > part at the beginning, in which he explained why he was posting his message > to several NGs.  You might have then paid more attention to what he was > writing about. (And I see another guy answered him by only quoting that > part, and then asking "What was the question?", I guess not wanting to read > farther than that.) So, by trying to explain the cross-posting at the > beginning, some people make that the issue, rather than reading farther to > see what the man was trying to discuss. He (Edgar) should have just started > with the issue, rather than starting with an apology/explanation for > cross-posting, for which there was really no need to apologize. Or, he > should have at least left that explanation to the end, rather than at the > beginning, as it seems some people couldn’t get further than that. > Brian, you seem to be in a bad mood today. There’s really no reason to take > it out on this guy, for asking about people’s experiences with a medication. > If you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real ones out there. > I hope there are others who really give this guy (Edgar) their input into > his questions, that this discussion doesn’t degenerate into a fight about > cross-posting.

Response:

> But in > general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on > as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner?

They usually start immediately and become less after 2 weeks or so. MB

Response:

>If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem >knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for >you.

I know that I replied to you on one group only and I’d be willing to bet others did too.  Many of us feel uncomfortable posting to 10-15 ng’s.  My personal, unsolicited suggestion to you would be to check the ng’s you posted to.  You might find some valuable replies from people who really cared and took the time to write, yet didn’t cross-post. (About this one –  I don’t know what group the original poster is reading and don’t have his email address – btw, you can avoid spam and help us write to you by adding little things to your email address that would make your real address obvious to us.  I never get spam the way I’ve got my return address set up yet I do get very nice mail from people on my ng.) – Jen

Response:

> I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while > spamming 11 groups.

I guess you have an unusual definition of the word "spam". From what I understand the meaning of the word to be, in its Internet (not canned meat) usage, it refers to unsolicited e-mail ads. That is what the anti-spam fake e-mail address for newsgroup posting protects from, as the spammers get their e-mail spam lists from newsgroups. Was there any advertising in what I wrote? I was not selling Prozac, just asking questions about it, wanting to discuss it. I explained my reason for posting to several newsgroups, that all could have some relation to the topic of Prozac. Cross-posting does not equal "spam". Spam is unsolicited unwanted bulk advertising on the Internet. > Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect > profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous > positive benefits.

If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for you. (I think I asked this in another post already (not the original one), but don’t know if you saw it.) From what I have heard and read, including from my psychiatrist, it takes a while for one to start experiencing the positive benefits of Prozac, perhaps even 4 to 6 weeks. My question is: if one is also going to experience some negative side effects of Prozac, such as those discussed, will that happen at about the same time? Will that also take weeks? Or would one experience the side effects sooner-immediately, a few days, one week? Of course, I know that medications affect each individual differently, so there is no way to give a definitive answer regarding how long it might take me to feel negative side effects of the medication, if I am going to feel any. But in general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner? Thank you for your input.

Response:

>Dave, you obviously have a strong bias against medications for psychiatric >problems.

Obvious because I’m honest? Frankly, psychiatric treatment usually isn’t any better, although CBT is a vast improvement over psychoanalysis/ECT/leeches. >I don’t know whether or not Prozac might or might not help Edgar, >and what the side effects might be like for him, I’ve never taken it myself, >but I do know that a lot of people have been significantly helped by such >medications, their lives turned around. I don’t think your standpoint >automatically against such medications is correct.

I don’t think your assumption that I’m automatically against such medications is correct either.  But it’s not the first time I’ve been accused of it. > Almost guaranteed to.  It’s pretty obvious that your immune system is > messed up, with Adderall and Prozac being stimulants, it’s not going to > help. >Prozac is an anti-depressant, not a stimulant.

No.  Prozac is a SSRI. You see, depression in DSM-IV doesn’t mean depression any more.  The criteria have tended towards the symptoms of people that Prozac might actually help. >I’ve never heard that either type has an effect on the immune system. >Show us your source for either drug affecting the immune system.

It’s common sense really.  You can start with Candace Pert’s Molecules of Emotion: "every neuropeptide receptor we could find in the brain is also on the surface of the human monocyte." > You do know that Adderall is Speed, right?  The exact same Speed that > young people buy illegally, possess illegally, take in clubs illegally > and often get addicted to. >The stimulant dosages used for treatment of ADD are not at all comparable to >the dosages used by illegal recreational speed users.

Please define "not at all comparable". > I once took 400mg of Prozac.  Was fun for about an hour and a half.  You > see, it peaks after an hour.  And yet doctors tell you to take it for > 4-6 weeks.  No-one knows why. >Sounds like you are one of those recreational drug users. People don’t take >Prozac for "fun", but because it has been prescribed to them for serious >problems. And no one takes 400 mg of it at once! That’s an incredible dose. >Lucky you’re alive!

You’re right, it was 40mg.  Maximum recommended dosage is 80mg. >Yes, doctors do "know why" they prescribe medicines for the length of time they >prescribe it for.

But you don’t?  Go ask one – I’d love to hear their answer. > Dave (professional PSYCHO-therapist), http://www.deep-trance.com >You are a professional "psycho-therapist"? Hard to believe.

Like I care what you believe. >(I don’t have time to look at the web site now.) (Easier to believe the part before the >hyphen, as one might have to be "psycho" to take 400 mg of Prozac.) What are >your credentials as a psychotherapist? Is your method of therapy to put >people in a "deep trance" (from the name of your web site). Are you a >hypnotist?

I could explain it to you, but that would take a long time and you probably still wouldn’t get it.  No offence – but I’ve tried that before. No, I don’t like pushing my authority and I wouldn’t wish anyone to pander to it. The only people I give credence to are those who are able to justify what they say with common sense. Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com Goodbye freedom: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25891.html

Response:

> Nothing "brave" or "non-brave" about it. It is effective in avoiding spam, > as spammers harvest e-mail addresses from newsgroups. I do it too.

I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while spamming 11 groups. > Prozac to the ADD med), it doesn’t sound like he is suicidal,

Patients usually don’t volunteer this information, particularly over the Internet.  And patients can *become* suicidal after starting an SSRI. There have been lawsuits in the US over it, so I suspect that doctors there are prone to ‘do something’ to try to avoid it. > Just to point out, that when you say something like "the side effects of > Prozac are trivial, compared to the effects of serious depression, suicidal > behavior, etc.", that probably is relevant to many people, but perhaps not > to this guy, if he doesn’t have those conditions, and doesn’t know whether > the Prozac will really help him at all with the organizational problems, > etc. So his weighing of the side effects might be different than with > someone who is suffering from serious depression.

I doubt it.  He hasn’t experienced any of those side effects yet.  Wait till he’s on the medication and then ask him how he feels. > What do you mean by "well liked because of its side effects"?

Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous positive benefits.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact that I >posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. If you look at the list >of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are related to the topic. I >don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone reading who >could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting to >several related newsgroups. >If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. I will >probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one you are >reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might never see it. >Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, so >do not reply via e-mail. Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs >above in your reply. Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion >of the issues raised. >A few days ago I was prescribed Prozac by my psychiatrist. I just picked it >up at the pharmacy today, and  haven’t yet taken it, >Just for some background–I’m male, 50 years old, this is the first time >I’ve been prescribed any kind of anti-depressant. Just recently I was >diagnosed with ADD (non-hyperactive type-difficulty organizing, staying on >task, getting things done, etc.) and have been taking Adderall for a month. >The doctor is now adding Prozac to it, thinking that my problem might be >partially caused by anxiety. >When he first prescribed it for me on Wednesday, he specified the brand name >Prozac on the prescription, 10 mg tablets. One week taking a half tablet >once per day, then 1 tablet for the next week, 1

Question:

Here is a link to the 7 May 2002 article in The Washington Post regarding placebos versus antidepressants. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42930-2002May6.html Cut and paste it into the address spot in your Internet browser.

Response:

As if you didn’t know?

Response:

> But hasn’t EACH ONE of these anti depressants undergone trials for > effectiveness before approval and use by the general public? Part of that is > to be better than placebo. What am I missing?

Evidently the FDA requires that the drug manufacturer furnish data from at least 2 studies (so usually only data from 2 studies are provided) showing the drug to be better than placebos.  Sometimes manufacturers must conduct 5 studies (maybe even more!) to obtain 2 that show their drug has qualities that exceed those of the placebo. The studies not sent to the FDA to gain approval for the drug may show that the placebo performed better than the drug, or that the drug was not found to be better than the placebo with suitable statistical significance (based on the number of patients involved in the study, etc.). Evidently patients who learn they improved using the placebo are prone to sudden reversal of the gains of the non-drug placebo!  So how much of "getting better" is in the mind of the patient, that "thinking one has gotten better" is a major part of "getting better"?  We must all wonder…

Response:

But hasn’t EACH ONE of these anti depressants undergone trials for effectiveness before approval and use by the general public? Part of that is to be better than placebo. What am I missing?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Placebos & Antidepressants Work the same Way > Antidepressants also cause additional brain changes > http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa050502a.htm > We have known for some time that patients given placebos (pills with no > active ingredient) often respond the same way that patients given > antidepressants. Their depression often lifts as a result of either > treatment. A new study (5/02) shows us that these two treatments both > cause similar changes in the brain. > Helen Mayberg, M.D., and her colleagues at the University of Texas > Health Science Center, San Antonio, used functional brain imaging to > study glucose metabolism in different parts of the brain following > treatment with either fluoxetine or placebo. The study was a > randomized, double-blind trial of 17 middle-aged men who were > hospitalized for unipolar depression. The researchers found that their > depressed male subjects who got better (four in each condition) > responded with increased cortical activity and decreased limbic > activity after six weeks of either treatment. Patients receiving > fluoxetine also showed changes in lower parts of the brain – in the > brainstem, striatum and hippocampus. These changes were not seen in > patients who received placebo. > A graphic illustration of the changes shows the similarities and > differences between the two conditions. > Composite PET (positron emission tomography) scan data, superimposed on > MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans, show brain areas that increased > (red) or decreased (yellow) in activity in men who responded to placebo > (top row) and fluoxetine (bottom row). Both groups shared a pattern of > increased activity in the cortex (e.g., prefrontal, posterior > cingulate) and decreased activity in limbic regions (e.g., subgenual > cingulate), which the researchers suggest is necessary for therapeutic > response. Men who responded to the active medication, in addition, > experienced decreased activity in certain lower brain areas (e.g., > hippocampus, anterior insula) thought to sustain the cortical/limbic > changes and prevent relapse. (Graphic and key courtesy of NIMH, 2002) > What does this all mean? There are several ways to think about this > study. One conclusion that we can draw is that the placebo effect is > real – and that the act of taking an inert substance (along with other > aspects of a hospital treatment program) can trigger certain changes in > the brain. In an interview with NIMH Dr. Mayberg cautioned against > equating antidepressants and placebos. "Our findings do not support > the notion that antidepressants work merely via a placebo effect. > Patients on active medication who failed to improve did not sustain the > brainstem, striatal and hippocampus changes unique to antidepressant > responders." Rather, the authors speculate that "clinical improvement > in the group receiving placebo as part of an inpatient study is > consistent with the well-recognized effect that altering the > therapeutic environment may significantly contribute to reducing > clinical symptoms. The additional subcortical and limbic metabolism > decreases seen uniquely in fluoxetine responders may convey additional > advantage in maintaining long-term clinical response and in relapse > prevention" (Mayberg, et.al., 2002). > This study is important because it helps us begin to understand how > antidepressants and other treatment techniques change the brain. We > are just beginning to understand the brain at this level, and further > research will undoubtedly build upon this foundation. We already know > that both psychiatric medications and psychotherapy result in changes > in the brain. This study begins to tell us how the brain changes. > Reference: > Helen S. Mayberg, J. Arturo Silva, Steven K. Brannan, Janet L. Tekell, > Roderick K. Mahurin, Scott McGinnis, and Paul A. Jerabek, The > Functional Neuroanatomy of the Placebo Effect, Am J Psychiatry 2002 > 159: 728-737. [Abstract available Online]

Response:

This surprises me. Worries me for some reason also. On one hand I think that my anti depressant probably works for me. (Indeed, speculation is that too much antidressants can set off a manic cycle.) On the other hand I KNOW that my other medications do control my mania.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Placebos & Antidepressants Work the same Way > Antidepressants also cause additional brain changes > http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa050502a.htm > We have known for some time that patients given placebos (pills with no > active ingredient) often respond the same way that patients given > antidepressants. Their depression often lifts as a result of either > treatment. A new study (5/02) shows us that these two treatments both > cause similar changes in the brain. > Helen Mayberg, M.D., and her colleagues at the University of Texas > Health Science Center, San Antonio, used functional brain imaging to > study glucose metabolism in different parts of the brain following > treatment with either fluoxetine or placebo. The study was a > randomized, double-blind trial of 17 middle-aged men who were > hospitalized for unipolar depression. The researchers found that their > depressed male subjects who got better (four in each condition) > responded with increased cortical activity and decreased limbic > activity after six weeks of either treatment. Patients receiving > fluoxetine also showed changes in lower parts of the brain – in the > brainstem, striatum and hippocampus. These changes were not seen in > patients who received placebo. > A graphic illustration of the changes shows the similarities and > differences between the two conditions. > Composite PET (positron emission tomography) scan data, superimposed on > MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans, show brain areas that increased > (red) or decreased (yellow) in activity in men who responded to placebo > (top row) and fluoxetine (bottom row). Both groups shared a pattern of > increased activity in the cortex (e.g., prefrontal, posterior > cingulate) and decreased activity in limbic regions (e.g., subgenual > cingulate), which the researchers suggest is necessary for therapeutic > response. Men who responded to the active medication, in addition, > experienced decreased activity in certain lower brain areas (e.g., > hippocampus, anterior insula) thought to sustain the cortical/limbic > changes and prevent relapse. (Graphic and key courtesy of NIMH, 2002) > What does this all mean? There are several ways to think about this > study. One conclusion that we can draw is that the placebo effect is > real – and that the act of taking an inert substance (along with other > aspects of a hospital treatment program) can trigger certain changes in > the brain. In an interview with NIMH Dr. Mayberg cautioned against > equating antidepressants and placebos. "Our findings do not support > the notion that antidepressants work merely via a placebo effect. > Patients on active medication who failed to improve did not sustain the > brainstem, striatal and hippocampus changes unique to antidepressant > responders." Rather, the authors speculate that "clinical improvement > in the group receiving placebo as part of an inpatient study is > consistent with the well-recognized effect that altering the > therapeutic environment may significantly contribute to reducing > clinical symptoms. The additional subcortical and limbic metabolism > decreases seen uniquely in fluoxetine responders may convey additional > advantage in maintaining long-term clinical response and in relapse > prevention" (Mayberg, et.al., 2002). > This study is important because it helps us begin to understand how > antidepressants and other treatment techniques change the brain. We > are just beginning to understand the brain at this level, and further > research will undoubtedly build upon this foundation. We already know > that both psychiatric medications and psychotherapy result in changes > in the brain. This study begins to tell us how the brain changes. > Reference: > Helen S. Mayberg, J. Arturo Silva, Steven K. Brannan, Janet L. Tekell, > Roderick K. Mahurin, Scott McGinnis, and Paul A. Jerabek, The > Functional Neuroanatomy of the Placebo Effect, Am J Psychiatry 2002 > 159: 728-737. [Abstract available Online]

Response:

Question:

I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of us that are prone toward it? Louise

Response:

> I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. > Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of > us that are prone toward it? > Louise

I have the same problem with SSRI and tried Serzone (no hypomanic reaction but made me sleep all the time) and Manerix (moclobemide), a good antidepressant with very little side effects that is not available in the US. alias.p

Response:

> I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. > Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of > us that are prone toward it? > Louise

I understand that the new direction of anti-depressants, after patents expire soon such as on prozac, will actually be a backwards direction, towards tricyclics. You might explore those, and also consider that wellburtin (is supposed to) effects dopamine rather than seratonin. I believe wellbutrin is more commonly prescribed to patients who might experience (hypo)mania. You also need to discuss these things with your doctor.

Response:

That’s odd since Wellbutrin is definitely one of the speediest of current ADs, often causing insomnia in fact.

Response:

> That’s odd since Wellbutrin is definitely one of the speediest of current ADs, > often causing insomnia in fact.

What’s even more odd, is that neurontin is used as a mood stabilizer, yet causes almost immediate hypomania. They might use it as an anti depressant now, I’m not sure.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. > Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of > us that are prone toward it? > Louise > I understand that the new direction of anti-depressants, after patents > expire soon such as on prozac, will actually be a backwards direction, > towards tricyclics. You might explore those, and also consider that > wellburtin (is supposed to) effects dopamine rather than seratonin. I > believe wellbutrin is more commonly prescribed to patients who might > experience (hypo)mania. > You also need to discuss these things with your doctor.

I took Wellbutrin a while ago and was so-o-o-o irritable I couldn’t stand myself! Louise

Response:

Question:

typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. >> the placebo effect >Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. > Prove that he would have killed himself without it?

I have tried to kill myself several times.  I took anti-depressants (zoloft) and my urge to kill myself…died. Admittadly, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all.  They worked for me and many others where other methods have failed. > A sugar pill would have been cheaper and have less long term side > effects..

There were many things that were done to try and make me happy, but ultimately none worked. > But you’re a drug company shill hired by Eli Lilly to post on ASDM.

Why am I a drug company shill?  Who’s Eli Lilly?  I’m posting from asad not asdm. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. > the placebo effect

Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

> I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

You are boring B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

This is what is happening to me. I think that it works B

Response:

> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years..

not true!!! I had one three days ago! I have to say, maybe efexor is helping me to have back a normal sex life. B

Response:

> Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- > one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another > bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since > it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the > symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might

know…)…. I am sorry, I am not a bipolar person so I can’t answer you. I am just a chronical depressed – …- The important thing is that you found the right medication, I am still researching the best love B

Response:

When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. > well stop xposting to asdt! > > > EFEXOR > > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > > >  effects. > > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months > on > the > > >  drug, I stuck a > > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I > would > not > > >  wake up and get > > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > > and angry. > > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that > maybe > > > your problem is deeper . > > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you > need > > > friends more than a medicine. > > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. > The > only > > >  thing I can > > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > > >  attempts were > > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all > accounts > I > > >  should be dead. If > > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > > >  not be from > > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, > but > > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you > from > > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > > take care > > > love > > > B > > > > — > > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > > Berty

Response:

Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might know…) Anyway I just want to say that I am allergic to all those SSRIs too.  I posted this yesterday.  They all make me feel much, much worse.  Zoloft led to my only overdose (no one pumped my stomach because I didn’t tell anyone it was a strange 3 days.)   Did you all know that suicide is listed as an effect of these drugs? You can read it on many websites and even in the small print on the folded pamphlet included with your Dr’s samples of the drug.  I also read the pamphlet on Zyprexa, and it says suicide can be a rare effect of that too. I know Zyprexa has antihistamine in it, the same thing that makes you tired in benadryl or sleeping pills, and antihistamine also makes me very depressed. I have noticed the little tendancies on the few occasions I was on Zyprex for it being impossible to sleep. They don’t warn you.  I noticed SSRIs are the first thing slapped down as Rx EVERY TIME I’ve seen a different doctor.  thankfully now I have one and we have found the right medications.  Without them I feel like killing myself too. Though I would never do it.  I know its stupid to do.  But it still sucks when life feels so bad you just want to die all the time, except from September to March.  I have a breakdown every year when it turns from hot to cold or back, like clockwork.  anyone else have that?  I always go in the hospital.   I asked this yesterday too.  Don’t bipolars have Excess serotonin, anyway? Why do they put us on ssris, then? I also read some theory that decreasing serotonin is the way out of depresion, that paxil etc works by bombarding receptors to make them less sensitive to serotonin.  that would make sense.   just what is really chemically different about the bipolar brain?  does anyone know?  I only get 30 minutes with my dr and dont’ see a shrink.  I have many questions and have done a lot of reading.  I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to fix it too.  the doctors only have half the info, and we have the other half.  they don’t have the delusions, mania, and depression.  they dont take the Rxs they prescribe.  They only know half. We should pool our info so we can get out of this predicament. I hate it. Love yall, someone please write to me.

Response:

Hehe, actually, effexor has given me MORE INTENSE orgasms No problems with orgasms or getting my dick up. I’m 22 years old and I’ve been on effexor for about 7 months I think. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years.. >I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. >And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. >> well stop xposting to asdt! >> > > EFEXOR >> > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for >> > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >> > >  effects. >> > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months >on >> the >> > >  drug, I stuck a >> > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I >would >> not >> > >  wake up and get >> > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home >> dejected >> > > and angry. >> > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that >maybe >> > > your problem is deeper . >> > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you >need >> > > friends more than a medicine. >> > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. >> > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, >> > > whith efexor you sleep a lot >> > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and >> > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. >> > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. >> Dont >> > > blame any medicine or whatever… >> > > I feel fantastic, in control and >> > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. >The >> only >> > >  thing I can >> > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My >> suicide >> > >  attempts were >> > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all >accounts >> I >> > >  should be dead. If >> > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it >> would >> > >  not be from >> > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. >> > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I >> exist >> > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, >but >> > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you >from >> > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting >> > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. >> > > take care >> > > love >> > > B >> > > > — >> > > > Psychiatry is to Science >> > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy >> > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups >> > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. >> > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? >> > Berty > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well stop xposting to asdt! > > EFEXOR > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > >  effects. > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on > the > >  drug, I stuck a > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would > not > >  wake up and get > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > and angry. > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > > your problem is deeper . > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > > friends more than a medicine. > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The > only > >  thing I can > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > >  attempts were > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts > I > >  should be dead. If > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > >  not be from > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > take care > > love > > B > > > — > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

well stop xposting to asdt!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > > — > > Psychiatry is to Science > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

EFEXOR   In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected

and angry. Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe your problem is deeper . You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need friends more than a medicine. Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night,

whith efexor you sleep a lot Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life.

I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont blame any medicine or whatever… I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor.

I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. take care love B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. > the placebo effect

Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. >> the placebo effect >Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. > Prove that he would have killed himself without it?

I have tried to kill myself several times.  I took anti-depressants (zoloft) and my urge to kill myself…died. Admittadly, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all.  They worked for me and many others where other methods have failed. > A sugar pill would have been cheaper and have less long term side > effects..

There were many things that were done to try and make me happy, but ultimately none worked. > But you’re a drug company shill hired by Eli Lilly to post on ASDM.

Why am I a drug company shill?  Who’s Eli Lilly?  I’m posting from asad not asdm. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. > well stop xposting to asdt! > > > EFEXOR > > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > > >  effects. > > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months > on > the > > >  drug, I stuck a > > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I > would > not > > >  wake up and get > > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > > and angry. > > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that > maybe > > > your problem is deeper . > > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you > need > > > friends more than a medicine. > > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. > The > only > > >  thing I can > > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > > >  attempts were > > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all > accounts > I > > >  should be dead. If > > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > > >  not be from > > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, > but > > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you > from > > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > > take care > > > love > > > B > > > > — > > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > > Berty

Response:

> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years..

not true!!! I had one three days ago! I have to say, maybe efexor is helping me to have back a normal sex life. B

Response:

> Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- > one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another > bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since > it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the > symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might

know…)…. I am sorry, I am not a bipolar person so I can’t answer you. I am just a chronical depressed – …- The important thing is that you found the right medication, I am still researching the best love B

Response:

> I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

You are boring B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

This is what is happening to me. I think that it works B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

I agree with you, Dobei, I find Efexor good. I use to be on surmontil for a year and it didn’t do anything at all for my depression. B

Response:

Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might know…) Anyway I just want to say that I am allergic to all those SSRIs too.  I posted this yesterday.  They all make me feel much, much worse.  Zoloft led to my only overdose (no one pumped my stomach because I didn’t tell anyone it was a strange 3 days.)   Did you all know that suicide is listed as an effect of these drugs? You can read it on many websites and even in the small print on the folded pamphlet included with your Dr’s samples of the drug.  I also read the pamphlet on Zyprexa, and it says suicide can be a rare effect of that too. I know Zyprexa has antihistamine in it, the same thing that makes you tired in benadryl or sleeping pills, and antihistamine also makes me very depressed. I have noticed the little tendancies on the few occasions I was on Zyprex for it being impossible to sleep. They don’t warn you.  I noticed SSRIs are the first thing slapped down as Rx EVERY TIME I’ve seen a different doctor.  thankfully now I have one and we have found the right medications.  Without them I feel like killing myself too. Though I would never do it.  I know its stupid to do.  But it still sucks when life feels so bad you just want to die all the time, except from September to March.  I have a breakdown every year when it turns from hot to cold or back, like clockwork.  anyone else have that?  I always go in the hospital.   I asked this yesterday too.  Don’t bipolars have Excess serotonin, anyway? Why do they put us on ssris, then? I also read some theory that decreasing serotonin is the way out of depresion, that paxil etc works by bombarding receptors to make them less sensitive to serotonin.  that would make sense.   just what is really chemically different about the bipolar brain?  does anyone know?  I only get 30 minutes with my dr and dont’ see a shrink.  I have many questions and have done a lot of reading.  I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to fix it too.  the doctors only have half the info, and we have the other half.  they don’t have the delusions, mania, and depression.  they dont take the Rxs they prescribe.  They only know half. We should pool our info so we can get out of this predicament. I hate it. Love yall, someone please write to me.

Response:

Hehe, actually, effexor has given me MORE INTENSE orgasms No problems with orgasms or getting my dick up. I’m 22 years old and I’ve been on effexor for about 7 months I think. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years.. >I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. >And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. >> well stop xposting to asdt! >> > > EFEXOR >> > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for >> > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >> > >  effects. >> > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months >on >> the >> > >  drug, I stuck a >> > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I >would >> not >> > >  wake up and get >> > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home >> dejected >> > > and angry. >> > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that >maybe >> > > your problem is deeper . >> > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you >need >> > > friends more than a medicine. >> > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. >> > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, >> > > whith efexor you sleep a lot >> > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and >> > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. >> > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. >> Dont >> > > blame any medicine or whatever… >> > > I feel fantastic, in control and >> > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. >The >> only >> > >  thing I can >> > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My >> suicide >> > >  attempts were >> > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all >accounts >> I >> > >  should be dead. If >> > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it >> would >> > >  not be from >> > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. >> > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I >> exist >> > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, >but >> > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you >from >> > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting >> > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. >> > > take care >> > > love >> > > B >> > > > — >> > > > Psychiatry is to Science >> > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy >> > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups >> > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. >> > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? >> > Berty > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

well stop xposting to asdt!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > > — > > Psychiatry is to Science > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well stop xposting to asdt! > > EFEXOR > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > >  effects. > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on > the > >  drug, I stuck a > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would > not > >  wake up and get > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > and angry. > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > > your problem is deeper . > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > > friends more than a medicine. > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The > only > >  thing I can > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > >  attempts were > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts > I > >  should be dead. If > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > >  not be from > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > take care > > love > > B > > > — > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

EFEXOR   In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected

and angry. Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe your problem is deeper . You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need friends more than a medicine. Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night,

whith efexor you sleep a lot Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life.

I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont blame any medicine or whatever… I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor.

I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. take care love B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

Question:

It wreaks ethically and the sheer volume of the ads, ad after ad, is disgusting, pushing the newest and most expensive drugs, driving up the cost of heath care for everybody.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> why is this so bad? isn’t it medication used to help people? it’s not > crack… > it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our media, > but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. > Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, and > ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! > Namaste > J > > Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your > stomach, > > no?? > > > do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > > > Thats incredible… > > > J > > >>> Hi folks, > > >>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the > US > > > or > > >>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also > using > 2g > > > of > > >>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since > taking > > > B5 > > >>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > > > muscles > > >>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from > this > > > symp- > > >>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is > this > > > even > > >>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine > anti-depressant > > > ? > > >> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > > >> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > > >> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain > blood > > > barrier" > > >> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and > or > > > drugs.In > > >> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, > since > > > those > > >> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > > >> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be > smart > to > > > talk > > >> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > > > encountered. > > >> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts > about > > >> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem > than > > > B5. > > >> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

why is this so bad? isn’t it medication used to help people? it’s not crack…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our media, > but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. > Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, and > ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! > Namaste > J > Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your > stomach, > no?? > > do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > > Thats incredible… > > J > >>> Hi folks, > >>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the > US > > or > >>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using > 2g > > of > >>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since > taking > > B5 > >>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > > muscles > >>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this > > symp- > >>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this > > even > >>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine > anti-depressant > > ? > >> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > >> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > >> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood > > barrier" > >> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or > > drugs.In > >> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, > since > > those > >> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > >> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart > to > > talk > >> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > > encountered. > >> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts > about > >> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem > than > > B5. > >> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

Did you mean "reeks?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It wreaks ethically and the sheer volume of the ads, ad after ad, is > disgusting, pushing the newest and most expensive drugs, driving up the cost > of heath care for everybody. > why is this so bad? isn’t it medication used to help people? it’s not > crack… >> it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our > media, >> but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. >> Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, > and >> ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! >> Namaste >> J >>> Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your >> stomach, >>> no?? >>>> do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? >>>> Thats incredible… >>>> J >>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in > the >> US >>>> or >>>>>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also > using >> 2g >>>> of >>>>>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since >> taking >>>> B5 >>>>>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and > my >>>> muscles >>>>>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from > this >>>> symp- >>>>>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is > this >>>> even >>>>>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine >> anti-depressant >>>> ? >>>>> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but >>>>> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart >>>>> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain > blood >>>> barrier" >>>>> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and > or >>>> drugs.In >>>>> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, >> since >>>> those >>>>> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. >>>>> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be > smart >> to >>>> talk >>>>> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve >>>> encountered. >>>>> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts >> about >>>>> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil > problem >> than >>>> B5. >>>>> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more > help.

Response:

Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your stomach, no?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > Thats incredible… > J >> Hi folks, >> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US > or >> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g > of >> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking > B5 >> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > muscles >> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this > symp- >> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this > even >> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant > ? > I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood > barrier" > thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or > drugs.In > that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since > those > drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to > talk > with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > encountered. > You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about > vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than > B5. > Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

Maybe Zoloft wasn’t prescribed because, as the commercial says, it has "certain sexual side effects . . .". For the human male, it’s like chemical castration – the libido ceases to exist in some; heard it’s not much better for the female. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I seriously doubt that B5 interacted with Paxil to cause the symptoms > that you described.  However, it’s recommended that folic acid (B9) > should be taken with AD (antidepressants) as well as anti-epileptic > drugs (AEDs) and it is very unfortunate that your doc failed to inform > you about it.  Here is one of the studies (I chose an easy to read > one:-). > Before you throw B5 altogether I suggest that you add folic acid; I > would start with 400 mcg (800 is the RDA) and even increase it to 800 > if no adverse reaction/s. Folic acid has been found to help in the > prevention of so many other neurological disorders. > BTW, why you were prescribed Paxil and not Zoloft, which is a much > superior medication and was the prescribing doc a psychiatrist or your > generalist/family doc/internist? > Good luck, > ada > You may want to consult your physician or your pharmacist but I don’t see > how it could cause a reaction. >> Hi folks, >> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or >> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g >  of >> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 >> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my >  muscles >> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this >  symp- >> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even >> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

it’s unbelievable. Over here in the UK, we endlessly criticise our media, but I really can’t imagine anyone being allowed to do that. Although we do have a tendency to follow America’s bad habits blindly, and ignore the good ones, hope we don’t follow this one! Namaste J

> Oh yes, they certainly do, that and a lot more. Kind of turns your stomach, > no??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? > Thats incredible… > J >>> Hi folks, >>> I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US > or >>> Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g > of >>> B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking > B5 >>> I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my > muscles >>> feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this > symp- >>> toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this > even >>> a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant > ? >> I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but >> according to the people at rec.drugs.smart >> B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood > barrier" >> thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or > drugs.In >> that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since > those >> drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. >> Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to > talk >> with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve > encountered. >> You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about >> vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than > B5. >> Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

do they really advertise anti-depressants on TV in the states? Thats incredible… J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi folks, >I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or >Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of >B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 >I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles >feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- >toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even >a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ? > I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but > according to the people at rec.drugs.smart > B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood barrier" > thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or drugs.In > that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since those > drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. > Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to talk > with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve encountered. > You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about > vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than B5. > Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

> Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects they > tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling > and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words > "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is > "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the > bad side effects!    ;0

Yeah, it’s called advertising.  Usually those *bad* side effects are so unlikely that only one in a million would have any serious problems.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Side affects? What side affects????? <g> > > Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. > > Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers > or > > dish soap. > Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects > they > tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling > and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words > "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is > "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the > bad side effects!    ;0

Response:

Side affects? What side affects????? <g>

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. > Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers or > dish soap. > Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects they > tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling > and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words > "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is > "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the > bad side effects!    ;0

Response:

I seriously doubt that B5 interacted with Paxil to cause the symptoms that you described.  However, it’s recommended that folic acid (B9) should be taken with AD (antidepressants) as well as anti-epileptic drugs (AEDs) and it is very unfortunate that your doc failed to inform you about it.  Here is one of the studies (I chose an easy to read one:-). Before you throw B5 altogether I suggest that you add folic acid; I would start with 400 mcg (800 is the RDA) and even increase it to 800 if no adverse reaction/s. Folic acid has been found to help in the prevention of so many other neurological disorders. BTW, why you were prescribed Paxil and not Zoloft, which is a much superior medication and was the prescribing doc a psychiatrist or your generalist/family doc/internist? Good luck, ada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You may want to consult your physician or your pharmacist but I don’t see > how it could cause a reaction. > Hi folks, > I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or > Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g >  of > B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 > I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my >  muscles > feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this >  symp- > toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even > a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

You may want to consult your physician or your pharmacist but I don’t see how it could cause a reaction.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi folks, > I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or > Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of > B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 > I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles > feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- > toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even > a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

Stop taking the damn antidepressant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi folks, > I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or > Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of > B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 > I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles > feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- > toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even > a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

Response:

> Hi folks, >I’m taking an anti-depressant called Tagonis (aka under Paxil in the US or >Seroxat in the UK) since 1995 and for about two months I’m also using 2g of >B5 a day in timed-realease tabs to cope with my oily skin. Since taking B5 >I’m feeling less able to concentrate, suffering from vertigo and my muscles >feel slabby. I dropped B5 yesterday and I quickly recovered from this symp- >toms. Has anyone here also experienced this when taking B5 or is this even >a commonly known effect when taking B5 with a paroxetine anti-depressant ?

I don’t know much about AD or Paxil but according to the people at rec.drugs.smart B5 is known for its ability to help other drugs cross the "brain blood barrier" thereby increasing/aiding in the absorbtion of some suppliments and or drugs.In that way it could possibly have some effect on the antidepressant, since those drugs act primarily on brain chemicals. Since no one here is a doctor, least of all me. I think you’d be smart to talk with your GP and find out more about the type of problems you’ve encountered. You might also do some googling to see if there are any other posts about vitamins and Paxil interacting, could be its more of a Paxil problem than B5. Either way good luck to you, sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help.

Response:

Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers or dish soap.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stop taking the damn antidepressant. >  You seem to be experienced in giving stupid answers.

Response:

> Not stupid. Doctors over prescribe them, like many other things. > Christ, in the U.S. they have tv ads for them like they are hamburgers or > dish soap.

Yeah, and have you noticed how when they’re describing the side effects they tend to play this "happy" xylophone music and show images of cats rolling and people strolling through meadows? It’s like, you may hear the words "bloody vomit" or "liver failure", but what you see and hear is "happy-go-lucky". Gee, one might conclude they’re trying to play down the bad side effects!    ;0

Response:

Question:

Depression Meds: Rigging the definition to boost profits New Statesman (London) 11 March 2002 The  New  Statesman  Special  Report  -  The  rebranding  of a disease Should  we  trust  the scientific data on the effects of drugs? Not if the case of depression, for which pharmaceutical companies found a new definition, is anything to go by. Jerome Burne reports If  the  directors  of drug companies are in the habit of taking their own   medicines,   then   consumption  of  anti-depressants  in  their boardrooms should have soared last month. Not least to show solidarity in  the  face  of  growing  concerns  that Prozac-type anti-depression drugs,  one  of the biggest pharmaceutical success stories of the past decade, may be not only dangerous to some, but also addictive. The magazine Health, Which came out with a warning that patients being offered  anti-depressants  were  often  not told "about issues such as withdrawal  problems  or  .  . . a possible risk of increased suicidal behaviour",   and  the  Royal  College  of  Psychiatrists  issued  new guidelines,  saying  that  only 50 per cent of patients would be "much improved" after taking anti-depressants, which is little better than a placebo.  Meanwhile,  in the United States, the issue of addiction was highlighted  when the Food and Drug Administration ordered the company GlaxoSmithKline to warn doctors prescribing the drug Seroxat about the possibility of dependency. The company was also found in breach of the industry code by describing problems with withdrawal as "very rare". All of this came in the wake of a court case last June, brought by the family  of  a  man  who,  a  few  days after being put on the drug for sleeping  problems,  had shot his daughter, his grandchildren and then himself. The court agreed with the family’s claim that Seroxat (one of a  class of drugs known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs)  had contributed to his behaviour, and awarded them $6.4m. This was  the  second case linking SSRIs with suicide to come to court, but more than 200 have been settled out of court. What  makes  this all the more alarming is that the drugs involved are so widely used – prescriptions for all SSRIs in the UK run at about 10 million.  They  are  increasingly  prescribed  for  a  wide variety of conditions,  such  as  skin complaints, pre- menstrual tension, weight loss  and  attention-deficit  disorder.  But  it  also raises the more important  and  wider question: can we trust the drug companies? Or is there  a  strong possibility that their business practices could leave both  doctors  and  patients  with  no way of telling just how safe or effective our medications are? When  it  comes  to  spin, the drug companies make the government look clumsy  and  amateurish. At the heart of the worries over SSRIs is the growing  belief  that the drug companies have been less than honest in their account of the risks involved. But it is not just SSRIs that are given  a  positive  gloss  when  the evidence points the other way. In January, for instance, Swiss prosecutors began a criminal inquiry into the pharmaceutical giant Bayer AG, "on suspicion of fraud and grievous bodily  damage",  following  the  recall last year of the cholesterol- lowering  drug  cerivastatin (otherwise known as Lipobay in Europe and Baycol  in  the US). The prosecutors are accusing Bayer of suppressing vital  information about the drug’s potentially fatal interaction with another drug, which has been linked to more than 50 deaths. Could  the  drug companies do such a thing? The editors of the world’s top  11  medical  journals,  including the Lancet, the British Medical Journal  and  the New England Journal of Medicine, certainly think so. Last September, the International Committee of Medical Journal Editors issued  a  joint  statement  calling for more openness in the way drug companies report their results and less readiness to hide unfavourable ones.  The  editors  declared  that  they will now "require authors to attest that they had full access to all of the data in [a] study and . .  .  [to]  take complete responsibility for the integrity of the data and the accuracy of the data analysis". The  point  about  having "full access to all of the data" is crucial, because  it  lies  at  the root of how science works. Only if they can look at the raw data are other scientists able to judge how reasonable is the interpretation. But all too often, the results from drug trials are  presented  in  the  form of tables, and the drug companies refuse access  to  the  raw  data  on  the  grounds  that  it is commercially sensitive. However,  the  concerns  of  the  journal  editors  on this point were clearly  not  enough.  In  February,  the  UK’s  National Institute of Clinical   Excellence   (Nice)   claimed  that  "drug  companies  have successfully  withheld important data". Gauging the efficacy of a drug is  fraught  with  problems, declared Dr Iain Chalmers of the Cochrane Centre,  an  organisation  set  up to evaluate the efficacy of medical treatments,  "because negative results are rarely published in medical journals". The moral vacuum that results from constant spinning is threatening to suck  in  not  just the academics who are paid to do the work for drug companies, but the whole process of scientific medicine. In an article last  September  entitled  "Dancing  with the porcupine", the Canadian Medical  Association Journal attempted to set out some principles that ought  to  apply  when pharmaceutical companies are funding academics. The  authors  start  by recognising that such alliances are inherently tricky:  "The  duty of the universities is to seek the truth. The duty of  the  pharmaceutical  companies is to make money." But, and this is the  important  bit,  "if  either abandons its fundamental mission, it ultimately  fails".  A broke drug company or a discredited academic is no use to anyone. The  attempt to hammer out some sort of guidelines was set against the background of at least two highly publicised Canadian cases where drug companies   had  used  "intimidating  tactics"  that  had  "profoundly affected"  researchers’ lives. One involved a lawsuit by Bristol-Myers Squibb against the Canadian Co-ordinating Office for Health Technology Assessment  to  suppress  a  report  on the cholesterol-lowering drugs statins.  The  other  was  the  legal  threat by AstraZeneca against a researcher   at  Ontario’s  McMaster  University  for  her  review  of medications for stomach disorders. Even  if  matters  don’t  get  as far as the courts, "industry funding creates  an  incentive  to  promote  the  positive  and  suppress  the negative",  says  the  journal.  An  example is the "landmark article" showing  that  industry-sponsored research into certain heart drugs is more likely to be supportive of their use than is independently funded research.  The  conclusion  argues  for the drawing up of some sort of industry/university  contract  containing clauses giving academics the right  to "disclose potentially harmful clinical effects immediately", for  a  surcharge  on  contracts  to  fund  a regulatory body, for the setting up of an ombudsman, and so on. All  very  well  and good, but getting regulatory bodies to respond to concerns  about  some drugs can be hard work. That, at least, has been the experience of the psychiatrist Dr David Healy who, since 1999, has been  engaged  in  extensive  correspondence  with  the UK’s Medicines Control  Agency  (MCA)  over  the  links  between  SSRIs,  suicide and addiction.  Their exchange of letters now runs to more than 100 pages, with  the  majority  of  that coming from Healy. As of last month, the agency’s  position  is that there is no cause for concern and that all the warnings that are needed are in place. What  makes  Healy’s  campaign  of particular interest is, first, that he’s  no maverick, driven by a belief in herbs or the healing power of madness.  He  is  a mainstream biological psychiatrist and director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine in Bangor, he has written   a   highly  acclaimed  history  of  anti-depressants  -  The Anti-depressant Era, published by Harvard University Press – and he is the  author  of  more  than 100 scientific papers. But he is concerned that  patients  and  the profession are not being told the truth about the risks. His  campaign also gains added weight from his experience as an expert witness  in two American court cases involving suicide and SSRIs. As a result,  he has seen previously unpublished data on trials carried out by  the  drug  companies  on  healthy  volunteers. His analysis of the secret  data,  the sort that drug companies usually refuse to release, shows  that about 25 per cent of healthy volunteers given the drug had some  sort  of  unpleasant psychological reaction. "That suggests that the  likelihood of someone committing suicide during their first month of  treatment  with  Prozac  is  ten  times  greater than if they were untreated,"  he  says.  "That is a level of risk approaching that of a smoker’s likelihood of developing lung cancer." This  suggests  an astonishing gap between what the drug companies say publicly  and what their own data shows. As a striking illustration of this gap between secret and public knowledge, Healy is fond of quoting a  story  from an American newspaper, the Boston Globe, which appeared in May 2000. It concerned a new form of Prozac, known as R-fluoxetine, which had been patented in 1993 (US patent no 5,708,035) and which Eli Lilly  planned  to  market when the existing patent ran out in 2002. A patent  application  requires  that you say why your new version is an improvement.  So  what were the benefits of R-fluoxetine? "It will not produce several existing side effects, including akathsia [agitation], suicidal thoughts and self-mutilation . . . one of its [Prozac's] more … read more »

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> Depression Meds: Rigging the definition to boost profits > New Statesman (London) > 11 March 2002 > The  New  Statesman  Special  Report  -  The  rebranding  of a disease

Very good article – thank you – hope it gets replays Squiggles

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Question:

You have probably seen these things before, but just in case not, they may be of help; Eric reminded me that some people are not faring as well as they could on current meds: Some handy guides on depression treatment and meds: http://www.mhsource.com/narsad/anti-d.html http://www.depressiondisorders.com/article1014.html http://www.expressviagra.com/main/paxil.html http://www.nami.org/helpline/women.html http://www.merck.com/pubs/mm_geriatrics/sec4/ch33.htm http://www.depressedchild.org/symptoms.htm http://www.depressiondepot.net/Treatment/Anti-Depressants/anti-depres… http://www.google.com/search?q=SSRIs+clinical+depression+help&hl=en&s… http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section15/chapter189/189b.htm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You have probably seen these things before, >but just in case not, they may be of help; >Eric reminded me that some people are not >faring as well as they could on current meds: > You are a smart ass. Take a hike Squiggles. Its already known that these online > NGs tend to attract refractory depressed people. >Some handy guides on depression treatment and meds: >http://www.mhsource.com/narsad/anti-d.html >http://www.depressiondisorders.com/article1014.html >http://www.expressviagra.com/main/paxil.html >http://www.nami.org/helpline/women.html >http://www.merck.com/pubs/mm_geriatrics/sec4/ch33.htm >http://www.depressedchild.org/symptoms.htm >http://www.depressiondepot.net/Treatment/Anti-Depressants/anti-depres… > s.html >http://www.google.com/search?q=SSRIs+clinical+depression+help&hl=en&s… > =90&sa=N >http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section15/chapter189/189b.htm > Go away you are depressing Squiggles. > Eric

@ @  +  U

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Question:

> Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?   > I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I > will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc > etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month > before I get back on my feet ?

I did go off Effexor, and I don’t recommend stopping suddenly. If you’re starting from 225 mg per day, I’d certainly suggest reducing the dose over several weeks. Six months seems like quite a long time, but as usual I think it’s wiser to listen to one’s physician than to random strangers posting in Usenet. You mention that you won’t be taking any anti-depressant at all for two weeks to "clear your blood". A period like this is required when changing between some anti-depressants, but not with SSRIs such as Effexor, I believe. — Francais / English / Esperanto Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

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ive gone from over 300mg to 0 straight away with no problems at all. one time i went straight off 75mg and had terrible problems.   its rather strange,  just a matter of luck i guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi all, >            I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided >to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 >mg every month. >            This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks >without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before >the other SSRI does its effects… >            I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on >another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal >symptoms during these 6 months. >            Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it >COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >(because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head >ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 >month before I get back on my feet ? >            I would appreciate comments on this. >            Thank you.

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>             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it > COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week >             I would appreciate comments on this.

I’ve gone ‘cold turkey’ on effexor a number of times. Some times I don’t feel a thing, and other times I get wierd, wierd delusions & hallucinations. I smell things that aren’t real. Buildings seem totally out of proportion. Sometimes get REALLY manic. Other times, it’s like I went from taking sugar pills to not taking sugar pills. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. I suggest making sure you have an ample supply of effexor on hand, if you do start getting bad side effects, so you can get back on the horse, and start tapering. HTH, B

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> Id recommend finding another doctor.  You can go off Effexor much faster than > 37.5 mg a month, especially if your intention is to switch to another > antidepressant afterward.

i wouldnt go that far as calling your dr. an idiot…… most doctors are not careful enough, so on that level you are lucky. however, going on and off meds is a very individual experience and really the best guide is how YOU FEEL. if you really need to get on another med, taper a little faster if six months  seems too slow. but i would not try to ‘cram’ that isnt the way drugs work. tapering is really the best even if you taper a little faster. having a dr that errs on the side of caution is not a bad thing…. but the reality is that every situation is totally different and what really matters is how these medicines affect *the patient* at any given moment. some people are not so sensitive and need to taper  faster and get on that new med. so its really the individuals choice. the best thing a doctor can do in my opinion is listen to and carefully monitor the *individual* patient. that will work better than any formula because every single patient is a completley different case. some people are simply very sensitive to meds. some people are not so. if you dont feel anything adverse, taper a little faster. if you feel something adverse, taper a little slower. the whole idea is how you feel, right? ive known my <good> dr five years now and he lets me change dosages at will without even calling him becuase he knows that i listen to what the drugs do to me. thats the best way imo. my previous doctors did not listen to what i TOLD THEM about how i felt and how the drugs affected me, and that was a big problem. if you and your dr have a good working relationship, then you can adjust your taper according to how it affects you individually……that would be my suggestion….. it really is  easier on your brain….. (and a mind is a terrible thing to reduce to waste if you ask me) good luck…. annas holes in whats left of my reason holes in the knees of my blues odds against me been increasin’. but i’ll pull through never could read no road map and i dont know what the weather might do but i’ll drink sweet wine and see the dark star shine ive got a feelin theres no time to lose……. no time to lose….. ~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~

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Hi all,             I am currently on EffexorXR 225mg.  My GP and I have decided to change it for another SSRI.  He told me to reduce the dosage by 37.5 mg every month.             This means 6 months before getting to 0 !!!  Then 2 weeks without any medication to clean my blood, then at least 2 weeks before the other SSRI does its effects…             I’m really affraid of waiting 7 months before being on another medication.  Furthermore, I know I will suffer of withdrawal symptoms during these 6 months.             Anybody ever tried to stop such a medication by stopping it COMPLETELY ?  I’m wondering if I could try it and stay in bed for a week (because I will be all fucked up: dizzyness, nausea, stomach ache, head ache, etc etc etc…) and then I will be okay ?  Or will it still take 6 month before I get back on my feet ?             I would appreciate comments on this.             Thank you.

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Question:

Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it get better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it?  What they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy nor really sad, just kind of numb? H.

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yeah i did,  all the anti-depressants kill my emotions. ive never had it get any better with time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it get >better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it?  What >they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy nor >really sad, just kind of numb? >H.

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I started taking Zoloft a few months ago and I didn’t notice a flat affect with it.   Before that, I took Paxil for about 8 years with no flat affect noticed. Christine

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With me it did cause some flattening-but in my case that was good as my emotional turmoil had worn me out….now that I supplement with the Wellbutrin I feel more like me, but still able to function well…. bunnyfire – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it >  get >>better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it?  What >>they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy >  nor >>really sad, just kind of numb? >>H. > I notice the opposite with SSRIs like Zoloft. Im more "flat" off meds because I > become more depressed. Severe depression causes "flatness." Numbness, > nothingness, inability to "feel" emotions, whatever youd like to call it. Go on > an SSRI and some of that ability to feel emotion comes back. Least thats been > my personal experiences. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

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> Did anyone here experience a flattening of emotions with Zoloft and did it get > better with continued use so you were able to feel happiness after it? What > they call Flat Affect (not effect) in medical terminology?  Neither happy nor > really sad, just kind of numb? > H. > I noticed a little flattening of emotion,,,but got better after a few

months.  I have been off and on Zoloft a few times….It works really well if I give it a chance…..a foot note….I could not orgasim the first month on it…..but that went away. "FORGET ABOUT IT"

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Question:

I used caffine and nicotine (cigarettes) to fight my periodic depressions.  After I quit smoking I needed to take anti-depressants to help fight my depression. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Reading the article below, it occurred to me that caffeine works by > increasing the production of cyclic AMP. > Does anyone find that they’ve felt better at times when they were drinking > lots of coffee/tea? > I read on Medscape or somewhere like that last year that caffeine may have > an antidepressant effect. > (I’m not suggesting anyone throw away their SSRIs.) > Beyond Monoamines: New Clues, New Approaches > A more comprehensive understanding of the intracellular and signal > transduction pathways may result in novel therapeutic interventions, said > Dr. Phil Skolnik.[10] One of the intracellular pathways affected in the > development of depression is the cyclic adenosine 3′,5′-monophosphate (cAMP) > system. By increasing the production of cAMP, a cascade of reactions ensue, > including phosphorylation of protein kinase A, stimulation of the > cAMP-responsive element binding protein (CREB) system, and the subsequent > induction of mRNA and new protein synthesis.[11] One of these new proteins > synthesized appears related to depression is brain-derived neurotrophic > factor (BDNF),[12] a member of the neurotrophic growth factor family of > molecules. In vitro, it protects rat serotonin and dopamine neurons against > insult, giving support to the notion that depression-associated > neurodegeneration may occur when there are decreased levels of this > molecule.[13] It has also been observed that chronic antidepressant > administration increases BDNF mRNA levels in the rat hippocampus and that > infusion of BDNF in rat brains during behavioral despair challenge produces > an antidepressant-like action. Thus, enhancement of BDNF may offer a more > direct means of producing antidepressant effects… > from On the Horizon: New Antidepressants   Martin L. Korn, MD > Medscape Conference Coverage based on selected presentations at the 154th > Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, May 5-10, 2001, New > Orleans, Louisiana

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>My big vice is Diet Coke.  I’m a serious Diet Cokehead. >Denise, its been reported that the aspartame used in diet sodas is bad for >depressives. The nutrasweet depletes B-vitamins, which are essential for >maintaining central nervous system health.  Read about it here. I rarely >drink >diet soda anymore or any nutrasweet containing drink. >Scroll down to number six for the hint about aspartame. >http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.hints.html > Thanks, Eric. I appreciate the link. > Actually, I know it’s supposed to be bad for me.  The aspartame may make my > depression worse, the caffeine may make my breasts lumpy (and who wants that?? > ), the phosphoric acid may make my bones brittle and my teeth decay. It’s > like I’m drinking a six-pack of poison every day. Bad, bad stuff. > But, I really have tried life without it, and I swear I feel *sooo* much worse. > So, I’ve decided that’s one tip I’m going to have to forego, at least for now. > My blood work always comes out good on B-vitamins, so maybe I’ll survive my > addiction.  :-/  :-) > BTW, my sister is horribly allergic (or sensitive, I guess… I don’t know that > it’s a true allergy) to aspartame.  If she chews a little piece of sugarless > gum she has nausea and crushing headaches the rest of the day… she has to > take to bed. > Denise

i throw up when i have fizzy drinks. i however am a serious caffeine addict and go through 1.5 liters of ice coffee a day plus the other hot coffee i have (about 3-5 cups a day)!

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I love the flavored bottled water at Wal-Mart.   L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Thanks for the link, eric.  I guess I knew that…  I sometimes try drinking >seltzer water rather then soda….

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…….snip >  Mostly what I do read is "guy stuff" books, like books > on working out or lifting weights or Penthouse magazine or something like that.

Rather then reading about sex and looking at pictures of women in the top .1 percentile, I think a real woman would be of great help to you eric.  You might find that natures cure works even better then drugs, dude.  Just dont stop the aerobic exercise!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just make sure you take a multivitamin like a Centrum everyday and maybe >throw >in a B-50 or B-100 complex tab daily and you should be fine despite using >products that contain aspartame. I guess. > I think that’s good advice.  I do try to keep up with my vitamins. > I dont use any aspartame containing >products anymore, but boy I was a big diet Dr. Pepper and diet Mountain Dew >drinker before depression. Always was stopping at the quick store to get a >diet >mountain dew or diet Dr. Pepper. > Diet Dr. Pepper or Diet Mountain Dew will do when my first love isn’t > available.  :-)

Oh not for me.  Diet dew..ugh!!!!  regular is great but diet…ugh.  I never liked Dr. P either…I do like diet 7-up, and sprite…but no caffineeeee, thats why I drink the stuff…and dont even mention diet pepsi!! LOL Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Denise

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Thanks for the link, eric.  I guess I knew that…  I sometimes try drinking seltzer water rather then soda…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My big vice is Diet Coke.  I’m a serious Diet Cokehead. > Denise, its been reported that the aspartame used in diet sodas is bad for > depressives. The nutrasweet depletes B-vitamins, which are essential for > maintaining central nervous system health.  Read about it here. I rarely drink > diet soda anymore or any nutrasweet containing drink. > Scroll down to number six for the hint about aspartame. > http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.hints.html > Eric > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm > FIDO…Fuck It Drive On

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> I have fewer mood problems decreasing coffee. > Gemini > "I’m nobody. Who are you?" …..Emily Dickenson

Do you mean you have better moods when you have less coffee? I’d guess that it would probably need to be taken in relatively high doses for about 3 weeks to work, but I don’t know.

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Denise, I hear you so well!!  I drink a 2 liter bottle a day if I do not watch myself, its a bad addiction we share.  I have been drinking from 12 oz cans now so I make myself be aware of each drink of diet coke.  The bottle is so easy to sneak a sip from! By the way…in france it’s called coke light, so if you go now you know!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Reading the article below, it occurred to me that caffeine works by >increasing the production of cyclic AMP. >Does anyone find that they’ve felt better at times when they were drinking >lots of coffee/tea? > My big vice is Diet Coke.  I’m a serious Diet Cokehead. > I reach for one first thing in the morning (I don’t really like coffee) and > have about 5 more during the day.  I get withdrawal headaches if I go for more > than about 16 hours without one. > I very much view them as the drug I’m addicted to.  I would love to do without > them, but I’ve quit several times, for periods of six months to a year, and > it’s torture — daily torture.  I never feel awake, I constantly crave them, > even months and months after I’ve stopped. So yes, I feel a lot better when I’m > consuming caffeine.  I could easily drink 15 Diet Cokes a day if I didn’t > consciously limit myself. > The psychological effect is pretty amazing to me — because I feel a rush of > energy the instant the Diet Coke touches my tongue, long before any caffeine > has actually entered my system.  Very Pavlovian.  In a pinch, I can fool myself > a little by drinking a Caffeine Free Diet Coke.  It works very briefly to perk > me up. > To most people, my DC addiction seems out-of-character, because I’m also a > vegetarian and try to eat pretty healthy most of the time.  I don’t know what > to tell them… I just *need* this stuff to feel okay. > Last year I read an essay in some women’s magazine by this woman who had a DC > addiction that’s even worse than mine.  She carries them in her purse and her > glove compartment. She came home early from a trip to some foreign country > because she ran out of them and couldn’t find more. Her boyfriend had a Diet > Coke fountain dispenser installed in her apartment! > I identified with that chick *so* much! > Denise

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Okey dokey.   But for your own intellectual curiosoty, next time you’re at B&N, flip through Andrew Solomon’s book, as well as Hallowell and Ratey’s Driven to Distraction. Acually, John Ratey’s recent book is also quite interesting:  The User’s Guide to the Brain. And by the way, inattentive ADDers fit the following profile:  sluggish, non-impulsive, dreamy, prone to hyperfocus, etc.  This subtype is often missed, and was not recognized in the DSM until after 1970.  There are a lot of misconceptions about this subtype, and they slip through the Dx net quite often.  Ritalin may not be the best med for them;  Adderall or dex is probably better for these adults, some say. But you’re quite right about the cognitive effects of depression. Again, for your interest, here’s a site offering a new treatment approach, as well as describing very specific subtypes: http://www.amenclinic.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Eric– >Have you ever considered an ADD diagnosis, instead of major depression?  As >I’m >sure you know — you are very well-informed about mental health issues — >that >many ADDers (especially inattentive women) are incorrectly diagnosed. >Just a thought.  I’m sure you’ve already considerd this idea, but was curious >as to your thoughts.  Ever read any of the popular books, eg, Drive to >Distraction, Amen’s new book, etc? >Speaking on the subject of books:  have you taken a look at Andrew Solomon’s >new book on depression, Noonday Demon?  If so, I’d be interested in your >thoughts on it.  AS has suffered from deep depression for many years, and has >written a marvelous account — not only of his personal experience, but a >survey of the culture, as well.

No I have not considered ADD and I dont believe I have that. My symptoms are pure SEVERE depression. Perhaps with a ruminative psychosis.  I didnt think people with ADD have severe eating, sleeping and sex drive problems. I do have severe cognitive problems, but again that can stem from just plain old severe depression. My last Pdoc, the one I fired right after I got out of the hospital, told me in the hospital that he thought I had some kind of ADD, that had something to do with my cognitive problems. I disagreed with that for a couple reasons, one of which is that Id seen several much better Pdocs before him and ADD had never been suggested. I also disagreed with it because of the simple fact that just plain old severe depression can cause serious cognitive problems. See, I dont really think a lot of people understand how badly severe depression can destroy cognition, Not even some Pdocs understand Ive picked up. Severe depression can really destroy your clear thinking, focusing, remembering, decision making, reading comprehension, etc. Plus Ive tried Ritalin before and while it did improve my cognition some, it didnt do as good a job at it as plain old SSRIs. I was on Prozac when I tried Ritalin. ADD is kind of a hip diagnosis to have right now, kind of like bipolar has been in the past. Im really too methodical in my thinking though to have ADD in my opinion. I think very mechanically and kind of am a methodical person. Im really not all that impulsive and the way I understand it impulsiveness goes along with ADD. Im kind of like the opposite of impulsive, more conservative and careful. Ive never even heard of Noonday Demon. Thats not saying much as I dont read that many books anymore. Mostly what I do read is "guy stuff" books, like books on working out or lifting weights or Penthouse magazine or something like that. I do read Stephen Stahl books however and I do go to Barnes and Noble to browse a lot, but I dont have any money to buy books with anymore. My last magazine subscription ran out a few months ago, MILO, a really cool magazine that covers powerlifting/olympic weightlifting and strongman competitions. Like where strongmen pull trucks and crazy things like that. LOL Im fucking with you a little. Gee  a guy with ADD might wanna read MILO huh? Do all guys who like to work out heavy have ADD? I bet some of these shrinks would probably say so. Im very unhyper and more sedated, sluglike. I really dont think I have ADD, really dont. Eric http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression                       \  - –  //                      oooO   (    )                       (     )     )  /                          (     (_

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Should I respond to that easy remark? L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Doh, how come I never meet the chicks who are easy to please? >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Eric– Have you ever considered an ADD diagnosis, instead of major depression?  As I’m sure you know — you are very well-informed about mental health issues — that many ADDers (especially inattentive women) are incorrectly diagnosed. Just a thought.  I’m sure you’ve already considerd this idea, but was curious as to your thoughts.  Ever read any of the popular books, eg, Drive to Distraction, Amen’s new book, etc? Speaking on the subject of books:  have you taken a look at Andrew Solomon’s new book on depression, Noonday Demon?  If so, I’d be interested in your thoughts on it.  AS has suffered from deep depression for many years, and has written a marvelous account — not only of his personal experience, but a survey of the culture, as well. Yes, I have found after I drink a couple mugs of coffee in the morning I feel much better. And I feel that way both on and off meds. Caffeine definitely has some mild stimulant properties, which for some of us equates to an antidepressant effect (mild). Others however absolutely cannot tolerate caffeine while depressed or anxious. For some, coffee or tea activates terrible anxiety, panic attacks, etc. Ive never had that problem however. Eric http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression                       \  - –  //                      oooO   (    )                       (     )     )  /                          (     (_

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>Does anyone find that they’ve felt better at times when they were drinking >lots of coffee/tea?

Of *course*. C//

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The psychological effect is pretty amazing to me — because I feel a rush of >energy the instant the Diet Coke touches my tongue, long before any caffeine >has actually entered my system.  Very Pavlovian.  In a pinch, I can fool myself >a little by drinking a Caffeine Free Diet Coke.  It works very briefly to perk >me up.   >To most people, my DC addiction seems out-of-character, because I’m also a >vegetarian and try to eat pretty healthy most of the time.  I don’t know what >to tell them… I just *need* this stuff to feel okay. >Last year I read an essay in some women’s magazine by this woman who had a DC >addiction that’s even worse than mine.  She carries them in her purse and her >glove compartment. She came home early from a trip to some foreign country >because she ran out of them and couldn’t find more. Her boyfriend had a Diet >Coke fountain dispenser installed in her apartment! >I identified with that chick *so* much! >Denise

Doh, how come I never meet the chicks who are easy to please? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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And they LAUGHED at me when I said it was EVIL!  mwahahahahaha Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My big vice is Diet Coke.  I’m a serious Diet Cokehead. >Denise, its been reported that the aspartame used in diet sodas is bad for >depressives. The nutrasweet depletes B-vitamins, which are essential for >maintaining central nervous system health.  Read about it here. I rarely drink >diet soda anymore or any nutrasweet containing drink. >Scroll down to number six for the hint about aspartame. >http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.hints.html >Eric >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression >MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) >http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm >FIDO…Fuck It Drive On

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> Others however absolutely cannot tolerate > caffeine while depressed or anxious. For some, coffee or tea activates terrible > anxiety, panic attacks, etc.

Yes, that describes me.  When I’m at my most depressed, I treat caffeine as a poison.  It’s like liquid anxiety that makes me much more susceptible to panic attacks. I still *need* the stimulating effect of caffeine at work, but I have to be very careful with the amount.  I can tolerate and benefit from the caffeine in a couple cups of instant hot chocolate a day, but that’s my limit. And I never take any on the weekend. Bruce.

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hello john i tend to feel lethargic and low in the mornings, so i automatically need 2 cups of coffee as soon as i get to the office.  I cant function without them.  i tend to drink about 10 mugs a day and then a feel abit hyper, especially if i dont eat that day. There might be something to the claim, but i dont think that it is necessarily curative, i think it temporarily changes your state of mind, but then again, so do meds! lisa xxx

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Reading the article below, it occurred to me that caffeine works by > increasing the production of cyclic AMP. > Does anyone find that they’ve felt better at times when they were drinking > lots of coffee/tea? > I read on Medscape or somewhere like that last year that caffeine may have > an antidepressant effect. > (I’m not suggesting anyone throw away their SSRIs.) > Beyond Monoamines: New Clues, New Approaches > A more comprehensive understanding of the intracellular and signal > transduction pathways may result in novel therapeutic interventions, said > Dr. Phil Skolnik.[10] One of the intracellular pathways affected in the > development of depression is the cyclic adenosine 3′,5′-monophosphate (cAMP) > system. By increasing the production of cAMP, a cascade of reactions ensue, > including phosphorylation of protein kinase A, stimulation of the > cAMP-responsive element binding protein (CREB) system, and the subsequent > induction of mRNA and new protein synthesis.[11] One of these new proteins > synthesized appears related to depression is brain-derived neurotrophic > factor (BDNF),[12] a member of the neurotrophic growth factor family of > molecules. In vitro, it protects rat serotonin and dopamine neurons against > insult, giving support to the notion that depression-associated > neurodegeneration may occur when there are decreased levels of this > molecule.[13] It has also been observed that chronic antidepressant > administration increases BDNF mRNA levels in the rat hippocampus and that > infusion of BDNF in rat brains during behavioral despair challenge produces > an antidepressant-like action. Thus, enhancement of BDNF may offer a more > direct means of producing antidepressant effects… > from On the Horizon: New Antidepressants   Martin L. Korn, MD > Medscape Conference Coverage based on selected presentations at the 154th > Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, May 5-10, 2001, New > Orleans, Louisiana

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Reading the article below, it occurred to me that caffeine works by increasing the production of cyclic AMP. Does anyone find that they’ve felt better at times when they were drinking lots of coffee/tea? I read on Medscape or somewhere like that last year that caffeine may have an antidepressant effect. (I’m not suggesting anyone throw away their SSRIs.) Beyond Monoamines: New Clues, New Approaches A more comprehensive understanding of the intracellular and signal transduction pathways may result in novel therapeutic interventions, said Dr. Phil Skolnik.[10] One of the intracellular pathways affected in the development of depression is the cyclic adenosine 3′,5′-monophosphate (cAMP) system. By increasing the production of cAMP, a cascade of reactions ensue, including phosphorylation of protein kinase A, stimulation of the cAMP-responsive element binding protein (CREB) system, and the subsequent induction of mRNA and new protein synthesis.[11] One of these new proteins synthesized appears related to depression is brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF),[12] a member of the neurotrophic growth factor family of molecules. In vitro, it protects rat serotonin and dopamine neurons against insult, giving support to the notion that depression-associated neurodegeneration may occur when there are decreased levels of this molecule.[13] It has also been observed that chronic antidepressant administration increases BDNF mRNA levels in the rat hippocampus and that infusion of BDNF in rat brains during behavioral despair challenge produces an antidepressant-like action. Thus, enhancement of BDNF may offer a more direct means of producing antidepressant effects… from On the Horizon: New Antidepressants   Martin L. Korn, MD Medscape Conference Coverage based on selected presentations at the 154th Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, May 5-10, 2001, New Orleans, Louisiana

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