SSRIs

Question:

I am on xanax & zoloft already. Today my Dr also gave me risperdal. She almost went with lithium. Does anyone know anything about risperdal?

Response:

Hi, > I am on xanax & zoloft already. Today my Dr also gave me risperdal. She > almost went with lithium. Does anyone know anything about risperdal?

Risperdal is an newer antipsychotic medication. It is used for psychotic symptoms that may accopnay a manic episode. MS are the first line treatment for people with BP illness. ADs alone have the potential of triggering mania. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!

Response:

I have been on and off Risperidal for almost 3 years. It really helps me. It’s not as sedating as the other anti-psychotics, and for me anyways, I don;t feel lke a zombie(though sometimes I’d like to).

Response:

>Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on >xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic >attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs >are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a >difference?

Zoloft is a SSRI antidepressant, but one that is (typically: YMMV) mildly sedating. It also has some effects on panic. It takes a while to take hold, therefore the Xanax. I’ve been on that combination at one time in the past.

Response:

Try the County, I don’t know which one your in, but they pay all for me and I get a fee waiver for psych. appts., therapy and meds. They rarely say no to anyone.  USUALLY!!!

Response:

Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a difference? Also, I do not work b/c of my panic attacks. I have not worked in 6yrs b/c i had a child and stayed home with him and since Aug 97 my attacks are so bad i CANNOT work. I have no insurance & do not qualify for state & fed. help because I live with my fiance. He makes little so we cannot afford ins. Someone told me to try ssi. Would they help? I have only been on meds for 3 weeks.

Response:

                    DE  DIGITALE  STAD Op 26 Feb 1999, MandMandM3 schreef: > Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on > xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic > attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs > are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a

Zoloft is an SSRI. SSRIs are useful in panic disorders. However it will take 3 to 8 weeks before benefit of SSRIs in panic disorder may be noticed. Xanax is a benzodiazepine, they are useful in panic disorders and work immediately. Because SSRIs can actually cause a slight worsening of symptoms in the beginning of therapy, your doc might have decided to give Xanax as well, so overcoming this first period will be easier, and the effects of the therapy are noted faster. Benzodiazepines are also the basis of treatment of panic disorders, and you’ve received the famous SSRI combo for panic disorder. It’s quite common, my guess is that if this proves to be not effective enough after dosage adjustments and all he will add buspirone (buspar), fenfluramine, trazodone or nefazodone. The first of those being the more likely. > difference? Also, I do not work b/c of my panic attacks. I have not worked in > 6yrs b/c i had a child and stayed home with him and since Aug 97 my attacks are > so bad i CANNOT work. I have no insurance & do not qualify for state & fed. > help because I live with my fiance. He makes little so we cannot afford ins. > Someone told me to try ssi. Would they help? I have only been on meds for 3

It might still take some weeks before the benefits of the treatment become apparent, and maybe even more if the meds need to be adjusted. Be patient, panic disorder is treatable. Taking your meds spaced over the day, and drinking no or almost no coffee can increase the effectiveness of treatment. > weeks.

GreetinX & Good Luck !        X        X       Bas p.s: There’s a newsgroup called alt.support.anxiety.panic which is on this type of disease. I consider you welcome here, but they might be able to give you more support.

Response:

Question:

I read up on this.   Most likely nothing bad will happen, since your already tappering your SSRI, you won’t have enough drug in your system to interact dangerously.  I’ve seen a study where they combine a SSRI with 5-HTP(tryptophan) and nothing bad was reported.  Same study with st. johns wort and Kava.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to > 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better > dose. > Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of > SSRIS, > I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. > Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a > horrible death ? LOL > What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Dear Never Mind, > I think everyone’s experience can be very different. > I withdrew from celexa, slowly in two week increments. > 20mg / 10mg / 5mgs  by cutting the tablets into halves > than quarters.  But your question about tryptophan > I can answer, I suggest you contact your doctor or > pharmacist. > Take care of yourself, > Julie > I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to > 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better > dose. > Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of > SSRIS, > I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. > Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a > horrible death ? LOL > What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks

My Dr wouldnt know ANYTHING about tryptophan.

Response:

I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better dose. Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of SSRIS, I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a horrible death ? LOL What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

Does anyone have any comments or is this board just a wasteland of spam ?

Response:

Dear Never Mind, I think everyone’s experience can be very different. I withdrew from celexa, slowly in two week increments. 20mg / 10mg / 5mgs  by cutting the tablets into halves than quarters.  But your question about tryptophan I can answer, I suggest you contact your doctor or pharmacist. Take care of yourself, Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to > 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better > dose. > Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of > SSRIS, > I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. > Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a > horrible death ? LOL > What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks

Response:

Question:

Here is a link to the 7 May 2002 article in The Washington Post regarding placebos versus antidepressants. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42930-2002May6.html Cut and paste it into the address spot in your Internet browser.

Response:

As if you didn’t know?

Response:

> But hasn’t EACH ONE of these anti depressants undergone trials for > effectiveness before approval and use by the general public? Part of that is > to be better than placebo. What am I missing?

Evidently the FDA requires that the drug manufacturer furnish data from at least 2 studies (so usually only data from 2 studies are provided) showing the drug to be better than placebos.  Sometimes manufacturers must conduct 5 studies (maybe even more!) to obtain 2 that show their drug has qualities that exceed those of the placebo. The studies not sent to the FDA to gain approval for the drug may show that the placebo performed better than the drug, or that the drug was not found to be better than the placebo with suitable statistical significance (based on the number of patients involved in the study, etc.). Evidently patients who learn they improved using the placebo are prone to sudden reversal of the gains of the non-drug placebo!  So how much of "getting better" is in the mind of the patient, that "thinking one has gotten better" is a major part of "getting better"?  We must all wonder…

Response:

But hasn’t EACH ONE of these anti depressants undergone trials for effectiveness before approval and use by the general public? Part of that is to be better than placebo. What am I missing?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Placebos & Antidepressants Work the same Way > Antidepressants also cause additional brain changes > http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa050502a.htm > We have known for some time that patients given placebos (pills with no > active ingredient) often respond the same way that patients given > antidepressants. Their depression often lifts as a result of either > treatment. A new study (5/02) shows us that these two treatments both > cause similar changes in the brain. > Helen Mayberg, M.D., and her colleagues at the University of Texas > Health Science Center, San Antonio, used functional brain imaging to > study glucose metabolism in different parts of the brain following > treatment with either fluoxetine or placebo. The study was a > randomized, double-blind trial of 17 middle-aged men who were > hospitalized for unipolar depression. The researchers found that their > depressed male subjects who got better (four in each condition) > responded with increased cortical activity and decreased limbic > activity after six weeks of either treatment. Patients receiving > fluoxetine also showed changes in lower parts of the brain – in the > brainstem, striatum and hippocampus. These changes were not seen in > patients who received placebo. > A graphic illustration of the changes shows the similarities and > differences between the two conditions. > Composite PET (positron emission tomography) scan data, superimposed on > MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans, show brain areas that increased > (red) or decreased (yellow) in activity in men who responded to placebo > (top row) and fluoxetine (bottom row). Both groups shared a pattern of > increased activity in the cortex (e.g., prefrontal, posterior > cingulate) and decreased activity in limbic regions (e.g., subgenual > cingulate), which the researchers suggest is necessary for therapeutic > response. Men who responded to the active medication, in addition, > experienced decreased activity in certain lower brain areas (e.g., > hippocampus, anterior insula) thought to sustain the cortical/limbic > changes and prevent relapse. (Graphic and key courtesy of NIMH, 2002) > What does this all mean? There are several ways to think about this > study. One conclusion that we can draw is that the placebo effect is > real – and that the act of taking an inert substance (along with other > aspects of a hospital treatment program) can trigger certain changes in > the brain. In an interview with NIMH Dr. Mayberg cautioned against > equating antidepressants and placebos. "Our findings do not support > the notion that antidepressants work merely via a placebo effect. > Patients on active medication who failed to improve did not sustain the > brainstem, striatal and hippocampus changes unique to antidepressant > responders." Rather, the authors speculate that "clinical improvement > in the group receiving placebo as part of an inpatient study is > consistent with the well-recognized effect that altering the > therapeutic environment may significantly contribute to reducing > clinical symptoms. The additional subcortical and limbic metabolism > decreases seen uniquely in fluoxetine responders may convey additional > advantage in maintaining long-term clinical response and in relapse > prevention" (Mayberg, et.al., 2002). > This study is important because it helps us begin to understand how > antidepressants and other treatment techniques change the brain. We > are just beginning to understand the brain at this level, and further > research will undoubtedly build upon this foundation. We already know > that both psychiatric medications and psychotherapy result in changes > in the brain. This study begins to tell us how the brain changes. > Reference: > Helen S. Mayberg, J. Arturo Silva, Steven K. Brannan, Janet L. Tekell, > Roderick K. Mahurin, Scott McGinnis, and Paul A. Jerabek, The > Functional Neuroanatomy of the Placebo Effect, Am J Psychiatry 2002 > 159: 728-737. [Abstract available Online]

Response:

This surprises me. Worries me for some reason also. On one hand I think that my anti depressant probably works for me. (Indeed, speculation is that too much antidressants can set off a manic cycle.) On the other hand I KNOW that my other medications do control my mania.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Placebos & Antidepressants Work the same Way > Antidepressants also cause additional brain changes > http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa050502a.htm > We have known for some time that patients given placebos (pills with no > active ingredient) often respond the same way that patients given > antidepressants. Their depression often lifts as a result of either > treatment. A new study (5/02) shows us that these two treatments both > cause similar changes in the brain. > Helen Mayberg, M.D., and her colleagues at the University of Texas > Health Science Center, San Antonio, used functional brain imaging to > study glucose metabolism in different parts of the brain following > treatment with either fluoxetine or placebo. The study was a > randomized, double-blind trial of 17 middle-aged men who were > hospitalized for unipolar depression. The researchers found that their > depressed male subjects who got better (four in each condition) > responded with increased cortical activity and decreased limbic > activity after six weeks of either treatment. Patients receiving > fluoxetine also showed changes in lower parts of the brain – in the > brainstem, striatum and hippocampus. These changes were not seen in > patients who received placebo. > A graphic illustration of the changes shows the similarities and > differences between the two conditions. > Composite PET (positron emission tomography) scan data, superimposed on > MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans, show brain areas that increased > (red) or decreased (yellow) in activity in men who responded to placebo > (top row) and fluoxetine (bottom row). Both groups shared a pattern of > increased activity in the cortex (e.g., prefrontal, posterior > cingulate) and decreased activity in limbic regions (e.g., subgenual > cingulate), which the researchers suggest is necessary for therapeutic > response. Men who responded to the active medication, in addition, > experienced decreased activity in certain lower brain areas (e.g., > hippocampus, anterior insula) thought to sustain the cortical/limbic > changes and prevent relapse. (Graphic and key courtesy of NIMH, 2002) > What does this all mean? There are several ways to think about this > study. One conclusion that we can draw is that the placebo effect is > real – and that the act of taking an inert substance (along with other > aspects of a hospital treatment program) can trigger certain changes in > the brain. In an interview with NIMH Dr. Mayberg cautioned against > equating antidepressants and placebos. "Our findings do not support > the notion that antidepressants work merely via a placebo effect. > Patients on active medication who failed to improve did not sustain the > brainstem, striatal and hippocampus changes unique to antidepressant > responders." Rather, the authors speculate that "clinical improvement > in the group receiving placebo as part of an inpatient study is > consistent with the well-recognized effect that altering the > therapeutic environment may significantly contribute to reducing > clinical symptoms. The additional subcortical and limbic metabolism > decreases seen uniquely in fluoxetine responders may convey additional > advantage in maintaining long-term clinical response and in relapse > prevention" (Mayberg, et.al., 2002). > This study is important because it helps us begin to understand how > antidepressants and other treatment techniques change the brain. We > are just beginning to understand the brain at this level, and further > research will undoubtedly build upon this foundation. We already know > that both psychiatric medications and psychotherapy result in changes > in the brain. This study begins to tell us how the brain changes. > Reference: > Helen S. Mayberg, J. Arturo Silva, Steven K. Brannan, Janet L. Tekell, > Roderick K. Mahurin, Scott McGinnis, and Paul A. Jerabek, The > Functional Neuroanatomy of the Placebo Effect, Am J Psychiatry 2002 > 159: 728-737. [Abstract available Online]

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by > >  suppressing > > > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the > >  definition > > > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why >are > > > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > > > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > > both > I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are > not addictive. > Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all > like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact > reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a > mystery. >OK. I drop my request for a molecular/biological level description of >addiction. All I ask is, why do you call alcohol and benzos addictive, and >the AD’s not addictive! What is the behavioural difference between the >addicts to benzos and patients strugling to withdraw Effexor? >cem

I suppose you could start with saying you can’t take xanax for a year and NOT have withdrawal, but can stop Paxil abruptly and be just fine. It doesn’t fit.

Response:

>I suppose you could start with saying you can’t take xanax for a year >and NOT have withdrawal, but can stop Paxil abruptly and be just fine. >It doesn’t fit.

But people have sued the manufacturers of Paxil and won because they didn’t reveal the severity of withdrawal.  There have been scores of Paxil anecdotes here, some people have no problem while others say it was the worst experience of their lives. One subtle difference between Xanax and Paxil is that one produces a mildly euphoric experience while the other simply restores a normal state of being.  But Xanax is HIGHLY addictive!!!  I can’t describe the sensation, but Xanax made me feel like I always had to take another dose.  There was no pain or suffering, just a mental compulsion to take another dose.  I was lucky that I only took it for 5-6 months, long-term users report absolute hell in withdrawal.

Response:

> But people have sued the manufacturers of Paxil and won because they > didn’t reveal the severity of withdrawal.  There have been scores of > Paxil anecdotes here, some people have no problem while others say > it was the worst experience of their lives.

I’m one of the former, although I had such horrible side-effects when I was taking it that any withdrawal may have been compensated for by the diminished side-effects once I’d given it the boot. > One subtle difference between Xanax and Paxil is that one produces a > mildly euphoric experience while the other simply restores a normal > state of being.  But Xanax is HIGHLY addictive!!!  I can’t describe > the sensation, but Xanax made me feel like I always had to take > another dose.  There was no pain or suffering, just a mental > compulsion to take another dose.  I was lucky that I only took it > for 5-6 months, long-term users report absolute hell in withdrawal.

I’m curious about this one.  I’d taken lorazepam for about 2 years, which is supposedly one of the most "addictive" benzos, and when I decided it wasn’t really useful so I may as well stop it I experienced 2 or 3 weeks of slightly increased anxiety, agitation and so on, but certainly a long way from "absolute hell."  I’m wondering if I’m somehow more resistant to withdrawal than most others, or if it’s more a case of how much aggro someone’s prepared to tolerate?  In my case I think I took the rather morbid line that life was already so crap that some extra horribleness was no big deal. Chris.

Response:

> >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example?? >cem > They all are addictive.

Before proceeding on this, does anyone know why the ASAP people, of whom one at least has visited here, are vociferously against the position that benzos are addicting?  And why, this group does not go bezerk if you mention benzo addiction? Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Before proceeding on this, does anyone know >why the ASAP people, of whom one at least has >visited here, are vociferously against the position >that benzos are addicting?  And why, this group >does not go bezerk if you mention benzo addiction? > Because unlike you, they just can’t admit addiction. It’s like walking > in a bar at 11 a.m. and telling people they are alcoholics. > It’s the flip side of anti-med —- pro-med. So blinded and in denial > they can’t see the forest for the trees. > Did you notice they now have a message board for people who want to > debate things that may be "disruptive", IOW – addiction? > Just go to ASAP and ask if benzos are addictive, and report back your > results.

I’ve been there – if you check the Google correspondence between Ian and me, you will see the acrimonious nature of the debate. It’s hard to believe that all of them are blinded to the possibility of addiction.   Interesting that they now have a "disruptive" room – maybe I should go there, LOL!   Squiggles

Response:

>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example??

I can only say from personal experience that benzos are incredibly addictive.  Especially Xanax.  In a way they are similar to methamphetamine, neither makes you think you’re addicted.  Like meth, benzos create a pure mental desire to take another dose, you always find some rationale to do more, thee is no actual physical withdrawal involved.  Perhaps there is some withdrawal, it tends not to be painful, just a dramatic increase in anxiety, the very thing benzos are prescribed to treat.

Response:

>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example?? > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean?

both

Response:

> Not true, Chris.  The benzodiazepine Klonopin (clonazepam HCl) has a > half-life of between 30-40 hours–a half life typical of the SSRIs (except > fluoxetine).

Okay, maybe I missed out the phrase "generally speaking."  Of course there are exceptions with a minority of benzos with atypically long half-lives and antidepressants with very short ones, but IMHO using one of the exceptions to say the basis is "not true" is nitpicking (of course it may be inaccurate in other more valid aspects) Chris.

Response:

> > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by >  suppressing > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the >  definition > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > both

I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are not addictive. Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a mystery. Antidepressants aren’t.  They seem to work by putting a floor under one’s mood state, so that you don’t go spiraling downwards.  But you won’t see people on the street because of being hooked on antidepressants – it just doesn’t happen. The people who deny that benzos are addictive are either in an addictive denial state or in some other peculiar denial state. There’s no doubt that benzos are highly addictive.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by >  suppressing > > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the >  definition > > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > both > I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are > not addictive. > Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all > like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact > reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a > mystery. > Antidepressants aren’t.  They seem to work by putting a floor under > one’s mood state, so that you don’t go spiraling downwards.  But you > won’t see people on the street because of being hooked on > antidepressants – it just doesn’t happen. > The people who deny that benzos are addictive are either in an > addictive denial state or in some other peculiar denial state. > There’s no doubt that benzos are highly addictive.

I think the word "addiction" has a special pharmaceutical meaning and a literal one; it is the literal one that gets people or riled up.  Regarding the ADs however, it seems that some of the new ones leave their mark, if you discontinue the drug; hence the neologism:  "discontinuation syndrome" – how similar that is to "addiction" is something a competent pharmacologist should be able to figure out. Squiggles — Truth has become a commodity.              - Squiggles

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by >  suppressing > > >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the >  definition > > >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > > >they not considered addictive, for example?? > > There are two kind, psychological and physical. Which do you mean? > both > I agree with all the above about benzos.  However, antidepressants are > not addictive. > Basically, addictive psychiatric drugs (i.e. benzodiazepines) are all > like alcohol and all the other well known addictive drugs.  The exact > reason they are addictive, on a molecular/biochemical level, is a > mystery.

OK. I drop my request for a molecular/biological level description of addiction. All I ask is, why do you call alcohol and benzos addictive, and the AD’s not addictive! What is the behavioural difference between the addicts to benzos and patients strugling to withdraw Effexor? cem

Response:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are they not considered addictive, for example?? cem

Response:

> Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing > the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition > of addiction?

Because the CNS adapts to compensate after prolonged suppression, so once the suppression ends the CNS becomes overactive resulting in various nasties like anxiety and insomnia.  Or something like that. > Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > they not considered addictive, for example??

Much longer half-life.  Benzos wear off after a few hours leading to the chronic user to be continuously aware that they need to take another dose.  Most ADs take several days (at least) before any withdrawal effects are likely to appear, which doesn’t have quite the same immediacy about it. Chris.

Response:

>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing >the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition >of addiction? Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are >they not considered addictive, for example?? >cem

They all are addictive.

Response:

Not true, Chris.  The benzodiazepine Klonopin (clonazepam HCl) has a half-life of between 30-40 hours–a half life typical of the SSRIs (except fluoxetine).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Correct me if I’m wrong, but I know that benzodiazepines work by suppressing > the CNS. So why are they addictive? And first of all, what is the definition > of addiction? > Because the CNS adapts to compensate after prolonged suppression, so > once the suppression ends the CNS becomes overactive resulting in > various nasties like anxiety and insomnia.  Or something like that. > Effexor and Paxil has terrible withdrawal symptoms; why are > they not considered addictive, for example?? > Much longer half-life.  Benzos wear off after a few hours leading to > the chronic user to be continuously aware that they need to take > another dose.  Most ADs take several days (at least) before any > withdrawal effects are likely to appear, which doesn’t have quite > the same immediacy about it. > Chris.

Response:

Question:

> Take deep breaths…maybe a hot bath.  This too shall pass.  It is > only temporary.  It can…and it will…get better. > –bethster

thats a really good suggestion, there are many natural things that you can try that can help relieve your anxiety too… try adding a few drops of lavender oil into your bath… it has relaxing properties, also helps you to sleep… chamomile tea is very good for anxiety… i also do relaxation exercises, very simple ones, starting with my feet, i slowly clench one muscle at a time and relax it, and work my way up to my head… while im doing this i just take nice relaxed deep breaths… the effort of concentrating on doing this can be enough to distract you for a while too, and it feels like you’re giving your whole body a massage which is rather nice ))) distraction is very useful for anxiety and panic, if you feel able to try reading a book, or phoning a friend for a chat, things that occupy your mind help you to stop thinking about the feelings you’re getting… which can make you worry all the more, and round it goes… you can stop it in its tracks sometimes just simply by distracting yourself with something nice… i know some more specific techniques if you’re having worries about particular things or events rather than general feelings of anxiety and panic… they’re a bit more involved though. take care and let us know how you are doing m — ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ iriXx version: 3.12 GMU/FA/O/U/AT d? s-:+ a C++++$ UL>++++$ UI>+++ P+ L+++ E W+++$ N* o- K- w– O- M+$ V– PS+++ PE— Y++ PGP(++) t- 5? X? R !tv b+++ DI(+) D? G+ e+++(++++) h* r++ x? UF+++

Response:

>I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from >myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. >I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was >prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. >What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more >anxious at first couple days.

It sounds like you need to go back on meds.  You might need to try something else besides prozac, but you ought to at least try whatever prozac you have left and make an appointment to see a psychiatrist as soon as you can.  The doctor can prescribe clonazepam, xanax, or numerous other drugs to help with anxiety.

Response:

(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))) it does sound like you’re having a very tough time hon, i would say, please do visit your family doctor or p-doc as soon as you can, im sure they can give you some relief that will help straight away.. i was in a similiar situation 4 years ago and was prescribed 2 meds, one to relieve the panic straight away (and it was non-addictive too) and am antidepressant as a longer-term solution. there are many different types of meds, do explain to your doc the troubles that you had with prozac, because docs do understand that people react differently to different meds. i am taking Zoloft (sertraline, known as Lustral in the UK) which has helped me a lot with anxiety as well as depression, it has a calming effect on me. Zoloft is an SSRI antidepressant, like prozac, but doesnt have the tension side effects, there are many alternatives that your doctor would be able to suggest. i do hope that you can get some relief soon, we are here if you feel you want to write more or just let out how you’re feeling take care m > I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

– ~~~~~>><:>~~~~~ iriXx version: 3.12 GMU/FA/O/U/AT d? s-:+ a C++++$ UL>++++$ UI>+++ P+ L+++ E W+++$ N* o- K- w– O- M+$ V– PS+++ PE— Y++ PGP(++) t- 5? X? R !tv b+++ DI(+) D? G+ e+++(++++) h* r++ x? UF+++

Response:

> I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

Is there some place local that you can get a hold of? Like you I haven’t had any meds for about two months now, and my pdoc retired. Last week was bad, and I got hold of a centre here that deals with people in trouble like ours. I didn’t consider myself an emergency case, so I met an assessment person, and have an appointment with another pdoc shortly. I could have been dealt with immediately. Maybe even emerge would work for you if desparate. Sorry I can’t be more help than this. jodelli

Response:

Hello Marypoohbear, Things can get very frightening at times can’t they?  I have trouble with panic attacks and that is even with meds so I know you must be really miserable.  Is there anyone there with you tonight?  Is there someone there you know and trust that you can talk to just to get some of your feelings out?  Or maybe a friend you can call and talk to?  Sometimes it helps a little to talk about all that is bothering you so at least you can get your feelings out.  I find that when I hold my feelings in that they grow and become more painful.  If there is no one there you can talk to then maybe there is some kind of a crisis line you can call? Tomorrow can you call and set up an appointment with your doc or pdoc so you can see about getting back on meds?  If you feel this badly then you would probably benefit from getting whatever kind of help you could get.  In the meantime if you feel too badly tonight please do not hesitate to go to the emergency room and explain how you are and have been feeling.  They should be able to help you for now and maybe even  help you to get in to see a pdoc sooner than if you just called to set up an appointment. Whatever you do, you know you can always write your feelings here and you will find others that are understanding of them.  I have done that many times before and I have always found others that knew what I was talking about and were very understanding of my feelings. I hope you feel better soon and you are able to get some help, Hugs, Bonnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

Response:

Hi Marypoohbear,     I’m sorry that you are in such a sad state of mind.  If you are frightened and feeling alone please try to get help.  Talk to your pdoc for example; or if you feel the situation has reach a urgent level, go to the emergency ward.     What ever you decide, please know that people are thinking about you and you are not completely alone.  I wish you the best. Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from > myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. > I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was > prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. > What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more > anxious at first couple days.

Response:

I am doing bad now. Real bad. I cry, panic, just plain need to get away from myself. It is bad. I cry & cry, I am so tired, yet am having problems sleeping. I have been off meds for 4 months, and the last med I was perscribed was prozac. I am too afraid to take it, and I cannot waite for a med to kick in. What can I do? Please, suggest something. Also, i heard prozac makes you more anxious at first couple days.

Response:

Question:

5-htp alone didnt get it done for me. Celexa at higher dosages is better but the sexual side effects are pretty bad. And at several dollars each, Celexa is expensive.  What about low does celexa & 5-htp ?

Response:

Thank you for bringing up the 5-HTP subject… From Psychosomatic Medicine Journal, September 1999: "5-HTP is commercially produced by extraction from the seeds of an African plant, Griffonia simplicifolia, and this extract is available in the United States. Antidepressant effects seem to be more consistent with 5-HTP than with tryptophan." "Although the same potential may exist for 5-HTP to interact with SSRIs, in many studies, they have been successfully combined to enhance the therapeutic effect." >  What about low does celexa & 5-htp ?

With caring, Sal, soldier of Christ

Response:

> > What about low does celexa & 5-htp ? > wouldn’t try it. serotonin syndrome aint fun. > — > James >> Fife, Scotland > ICQ :41149795 – http://www.mp3.com/jameskerr > "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

James, I have read the descriptions – I wonder if you had it? Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have read the descriptions – I wonder if you had it? > i did, when i came off zoloft (about a month ago)… i started taking > 5-htp the day after i stopped the zoloft. for the next 2-3 days i felt > really weird…electric shock feelings in my joints all over my body > when i moved, feeling really cold, and just generally quite bad. > — > James >> Fife, Scotland > ICQ :41149795 – http://www.mp3.com/jameskerr > "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

I think electric shocks are nothing close to it – everyone has those with dose fluctuations even – SS is VERY serious, often fatal: http://members.aol.com/atracyphd/syndrome.htm Squiggles

Response:

>(Its

Question:

Hello – I’m Peter and I’m new to this newsgroup. I had been on Prozac for 6 years and then it stopped working for me. The doc put me on Effexor, and it worked a treat-all the old anger and anxiety went away and then I began to notice things. I had real trouble reaching orgasm, and when I did the ejaculation and orgasm were separated, which was really weird. My wife thought it was her fault, but I begin to realise it wasn’t. The worst effect by far is when I miss a tablet-that’s right, JUST ONE !! I begin to get confused and my eyes begin to, well, how can I put it, buzz and hurt, as if some extra fluid had just been pumped in. The other day I was driving back from Coventry to Bradford (150 miles) and I began to feel the eyes going, and that’s when I realised I’d forgotten the tablet. Now I know it has a short half life, but this is crazy – how can I ever hope to get off it, as I am trying to do now with the help of therapy. It’s really horrible; some people might say that these are symptoms of my condition reappearing, but I say NO! This never happened before Effexor. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Can anyone say that any of the above has happened to them? Thanks everyone, I know you can ease my mind and I really appreciate you help and input. Bye for now, Peter Finan

Response:

> Paxil and Effexors half life make them the worse antidepressants to stop… > people frequently get horrific withdrawal  especially where they stop > abruptly…  you have to taper off very very gradually..

I’ve been on both at one time or another for prolonged periods of time. I stopped each one of them cold turkey without any noticeable adverse effects. > As people get down to lowest possible dosage of Paxil or Effexor…..some > have used Prozac then,   tapering off that…then as well, ..to keep the > worse of the symptoms of withdrawal at bay…and reported it works to do > that.. > Sexual dysfunction as you reported is Frequent side effect of the SSRI et al

Effexor is not an SSRI, and has notably fewer sexual side effects than the SSRIs. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> or modern class of Antidepressants.. > Hello – I’m Peter and I’m new to this newsgroup. I had been on Prozac for > 6 > years and then it stopped working for me. The doc put me on Effexor, and > it > worked a treat-all the old anger and anxiety went away and then I began to > notice things. I had real trouble reaching orgasm, and when I did the > ejaculation and orgasm were separated, which was really weird. My wife > thought > it was her fault, but I begin to realise it wasn’t. The worst effect by > far is > when I miss a tablet-that’s right, JUST ONE !! I begin to get confused and > my > eyes begin to, well, how can I put it, buzz and hurt, as if some extra > fluid > had just been pumped in. The other day I was driving back from Coventry to > Bradford (150 miles) and I began to feel the eyes going, and that’s when I > realised I’d forgotten the tablet. Now I know it has a short half life, > but > this is crazy – how can I ever hope to get off it, as I am trying to do > now > with the help of therapy. It’s really horrible; some people might say that > these are symptoms of my condition reappearing, but I say NO! This never > happened before Effexor. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Can anyone > say > that any of the above has happened to them? Thanks everyone, I know you > can > ease my mind and I really appreciate you help and input. > Bye for now, > Peter Finan

Response:

> Now I know it has a short half life, but > this is crazy – how can I ever hope to get off it, as I am trying to do now > with the help of therapy. It’s really horrible; some people might say that > these are symptoms of my condition reappearing, but I say NO! This never > happened before Effexor. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Can anyone say > that any of the above has happened to them? Thanks everyone, I know you can > ease my mind and I really appreciate you help and input.

I took Effexor XR for quite a while, and I don’t recall having any trouble going off it nor having particularly adverse reactions to missing a single dose. It is possible and not necessarily an unpleasant experience. I probably had the sexual dysfunction, but I didn’t get a sufficient response to it to be interested in having sex in the first place. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

Question:

3 years ago my G.P. dianosed me as being clinically depressed and prescribed Cipramil tablets. I have once tried to come off them but within 4 weeks I was having my original symptoms and was advised to go back on them. I am now at my wits end as I have a complete loss of libido which I am aware is a side effect of  antidepressants and as a result am considering to once again try to manage without the help of the Cipramil. Has anyone experienced a similar problem and if so how have you managed to overcome it ? P.S. also known as Citalopram Hydrobromide.

Response:

Why not try another anti-depressant?  There are many out on the market today & I would think you should be able to find one with minimal side effects.  It might take some trial & error, however. >3 years ago my G.P. dianosed me as being clinically depressed and prescribed >Cipramil tablets. I have once tried to come off them but within 4 weeks I >was having my original symptoms and was advised to go back on them. I am now >at my wits end as I have a complete loss of libido which I am aware is a >side effect of  antidepressants and as a result am considering to once again >try to manage without the help of the Cipramil. Has anyone experienced a >similar problem and if so how have you managed to overcome it ? P.S. also >known as Citalopram Hydrobromide.

Kim Miller Bow-Wow: http://members.tripod.com/allaboutdogs/ Christmas Dreams: http://members.tripod.com/joyfulchristmas/ Surf Minnesota: http://www.surfminnesota.net/ Personal Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/ ICQ: 48547727

Response:

Question:

I had been on Zoloft to treat depression for a long time, many years. However, it interfered with my sleep.  I couldn’t sleep, actually.  So I told my doctor I was going to gradually reduce the dosage & stop taking it to see what happened.  Well, I have been very depressed lately & yesterday I had a panic attack at work.  Today I went back to the doctor & asked if there were any other drugs I could take that wouldn’t interfere with my sleep as much & they gave me Celexa.  Where can I find information about this drug?  Has anyone here taken it & did it make you wide awake in the middle of the night?  Thanks. Kim Miller Bow-Wow: http://members.tripod.com/allaboutdogs/ Christmas Dreams: http://members.tripod.com/joyfulchristmas/ Surf Minnesota: http://www.surfminnesota.net/ Personal Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/ ICQ: 48547727

Response:

Hello Kim. About 18 months ago I was on Celexa. I think out of all the SSRI’s I have tried, and they all make me manic, I slept the best on Celexa. You may be tired for a week or so when first taking it or increasing the dosage, but sleep for me and overall wakefulness was the best with Celexa. Right now I’m on Paxil 20 mg. from 30 mg. Mania is a horrible feeling,although productive but irritable and restless. Also on Paxil 30 mg. I lost my pleasure in a lot of things. People say they lose interest in sex or sustaining a relationship but for me I lost interest in everything but sex. I am just starting to feel like I’m getting back to the things I love, and that’s an anti-depressant in itself. Hope all goes well for you Philip

Response:

> I had been on Zoloft to treat depression for a long time, many years. > However, it interfered with my sleep.  I couldn’t sleep, actually.  So > I told my doctor I was going to gradually reduce the dosage & stop > taking it to see what happened.  Well, I have been very depressed > lately & yesterday I had a panic attack at work.  Today I went back to > the doctor & asked if there were any other drugs I could take that > wouldn’t interfere with my sleep as much & they gave me Celexa.  Where > can I find information about this drug?  Has anyone here taken it & > did it make you wide awake in the middle of the night?  Thanks.

I was on Celexa, and it made me drowsy, so I took it at night because I have insomnia. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

<snip> >wouldn’t interfere with my sleep as much & they gave me Celexa.  Where >can I find information about this drug?  Has anyone here taken it & >did it make you wide awake in the middle of the night?  Thanks. >Kim Miller

Hi Kim, I’ve been on Celexa for about 2 years now and find that it’s an excellent anti-depressent.  I have no trouble sleeping on it, though it does give me really vivid dreams that sometimes wake me up 3 or 4 times in a night, but I have no trouble getting back to sleep. Cheers, Peter.

Response:

Thanks everyone.  I am not doing so good right now & it is nice to find a supportive group like this.

Response:

Yes, Zoloft seemed to help me for a long time except for the sleeping problem.  Thanks for the info.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It appears from your post,  that Zoloft helped you for > many years except for your one problem with insomnia.. > The  idea of  trying Celexa does not seem like a bad > idea.   But no way to tell ahead of time where this > will all end up. > For your situation as described in your post,  where > you were able to take  Zoloft for many years the idea > of trying Celexa as suggested by the Doctor could turn > out OK due to the reduced side effects of the drug. But > no way to know.  If it doesn’t work, you might want to > consider going back to your "old faithful" Zoloft, and > then solve the insomnia problem some other way. > Good luck in your efforts.

Response:

I meant to say I got a prescription for it.  My sister is on it too & so far, she has no trouble sleeping but has tremors.  I don’t know how long she’s been on it, she said not too long.  My doctor listens to me too & if a drug is not helping me, I will speak up.  If a doctor doesn’t listen to me the first time, they will the second time or I’ll find one who will. >BTW  Meant to ask what you meant when you said the >doctor "gave you" Celexa. Did that mean a "free" >sample?. Or did it mean a prescription.? . Was not >aware that  Celexa has free samples so your information >could be of help on that point. >Have been wondering how come it is not prescribed more. >Whether that could be because Celexa is not a US drug, >or because it is not advertised here like the others on >television,   or whether on not the free sample >situation  might be a factor.

Kim Miller Bow-Wow: http://members.tripod.com/allaboutdogs/ Christmas Dreams: http://members.tripod.com/joyfulchristmas/ Surf Minnesota: http://www.surfminnesota.net/ Personal Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/ ICQ: 48547727

Response:

Yes, my doctor had a 7 day package. I guess the pharmaceutical company is on a hot marketing campaign for Celexa.  I am certain that it works well for other people.  My sleep wasn’t disturbed and I am listening to what Zoloft is doing to sleep patterns for others. I haven’t started the Effexor yet. Planning on doing that next Thursday.  Just needed to chill a little more after the Celexa experience. I am so pleased that this doctor listens to me. I would bolt and hide in this deep, dark hole for a while.  Not a pleasant thought, but I insist on having some control over what happens to my brain! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, Zoloft seemed to help me for a long time except for the sleeping >problem.  Thanks for the info. >There has been quite a bit of discussion lately on >Celexa and I felt that one of the things being missed >in this and  other threads,  was the superior side >effects of Celexa. >Though Celexa does have side effects and those side >effects can still be sufficient to be bad news for some >people.   >Sort of  3 situations. >Situation 1 >You like the SSRIs, they help you, get along with >things like Zoloft, and are likely to get along with >something like Celexa "too". >For you the tradeoff is if you stay on Zoloft, you have >a "sure winner:"    However,  you have already decided >that you would like to be off of Zoloft and would like >to try something else. Maybe already off it  in part. >And  have a doctor working with you ,  recommending >Celexa. >There is a  reasonable chance of having Celexa at least >working for the depression , and maybe better for you >due to lower side effects as compared to your Zoloft. >But the entire thing is like a gamble.  Might get >something better, might screw it up. >The important thing is that it should be  "your >decision" based on whatever information you can find >including what the doctor recommends.   >We  can all hope  your new try at  "Celexa" works for >you. >—– >Situation 2 >Another  thread  about Celex , where Marilyn has a >number of really awful side effects.  Both on a prior >attempt at Zoloft, and on a recent excursion into >Celexa.  In that situation she is fortunate to have a >doctor that "listens" to her    In the situation 2 >thread , she and her doctor are about to try Effexor >We can all hope that in her case "getting rid’ of the >Celexa works for her. >Situation 3 >A situation where dictator doctors try to get people to >use Celexa (or Paxil or Zoloft or other SSRIs) , for >"life" .   In spite of some very bad side effects.  And >bad enough to disrupt some  functionally of living. >And bad enough for "some"  people to want to some extra >relapse risk.     >It is too bad, because the "dictator" type of   doctors >end up in a situation of  de facto declaration of >"war",  on their own  patients.  And thereby end up >depriving them of even the medial care they might have >obtained ,  if they did not take the  "order" the >patient to do this or that  approach. >—- >So seems like it is: >Full speed ahead for you on Celexa,  and your possible >new magic bullet. With the doctors help.   And full >speed ahead on "getting rid" of Celexa for Marilyn. >And on to hopes of Effexor as her possible magic >bullet. . With her  doctor’s help.  And for  those few >(hopefully very few), situation 3 people,  it is full >speed ahead getting rid of Celexa – or equivalents. >In some case with the doctor’s help. In some others >without the doctor’s help. >BTW  Meant to ask what you meant when you said the >doctor "gave you" Celexa. Did that mean a "free" >sample?. Or did it mean a prescription.? . Was not >aware that  Celexa has free samples so your information >could be of help on that point. >Have been wondering how come it is not prescribed more. >Whether that could be because Celexa is not a US drug, >or because it is not advertised here like the others on >television,   or whether on not the free sample >situation  might be a factor. >>It appears from your post,  that Zoloft helped you for >>many years except for your one problem with insomnia.. >>The  idea of  trying Celexa does not seem like a bad >>idea.   But no way to tell ahead of time where this >>will all end up. >>For your situation as described in your post,  where >>you were able to take  Zoloft for many years the idea >>of trying Celexa as suggested by the Doctor could turn >>out OK due to the reduced side effects of the drug. But >>no way to know.  If it doesn’t work, you might want to >>consider going back to your "old faithful" Zoloft, and >>then solve the insomnia problem some other way. >>Good luck in your efforts.

Response:

Question:

You have probably seen these things before, but just in case not, they may be of help; Eric reminded me that some people are not faring as well as they could on current meds: Some handy guides on depression treatment and meds: http://www.mhsource.com/narsad/anti-d.html http://www.depressiondisorders.com/article1014.html http://www.expressviagra.com/main/paxil.html http://www.nami.org/helpline/women.html http://www.merck.com/pubs/mm_geriatrics/sec4/ch33.htm http://www.depressedchild.org/symptoms.htm http://www.depressiondepot.net/Treatment/Anti-Depressants/anti-depres… http://www.google.com/search?q=SSRIs+clinical+depression+help&hl=en&s… http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section15/chapter189/189b.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You have probably seen these things before, >but just in case not, they may be of help; >Eric reminded me that some people are not >faring as well as they could on current meds: > You are a smart ass. Take a hike Squiggles. Its already known that these online > NGs tend to attract refractory depressed people. >Some handy guides on depression treatment and meds: >http://www.mhsource.com/narsad/anti-d.html >http://www.depressiondisorders.com/article1014.html >http://www.expressviagra.com/main/paxil.html >http://www.nami.org/helpline/women.html >http://www.merck.com/pubs/mm_geriatrics/sec4/ch33.htm >http://www.depressedchild.org/symptoms.htm >http://www.depressiondepot.net/Treatment/Anti-Depressants/anti-depres… > s.html >http://www.google.com/search?q=SSRIs+clinical+depression+help&hl=en&s… > =90&sa=N >http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section15/chapter189/189b.htm > Go away you are depressing Squiggles. > Eric

@ @  +  U

Response: