SSRIs

Question:

Of course, the biggest problem about cross posting to so many groups is that you increase the amount of people available for mud slinging once it starts and as this very post shows, some of the posts go way off track to the original question.  I suspect this thread will run and run and run….. Regards, Andrew Austin. — NLP, Neurology, Schizophrenia:  http://www.23NLPeople.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hello, > > Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact > that > I posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. > It’s cross-posted; that’s bad enough. > Where is there a law against cross-posting? How is that "bad enough"? It’s > true that spammers and trolls often crosspost to many unrelated newsgroups. > It’s quite clear, as this guy said, that what he wrote is not spam or a > troll post, but some serious questions, and all the NGs he posted it to were > related to the topic. I don’t see anything wrong with that. What’s "bad" > about that? > > If you look at the list of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are > related to the topic. > I’m posting from a depression group, not a medication group. > Are you saying that a post about the medication Prozac, certainly one of the > major anti-depressants, is not relevant to a depression group?  Please > explain. Do you see any newsgroup he posted to, to which the topic of > "Prozac" is not relevant? Is this the first time someone discussed a > medication on the depression group? > > I don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone > reading > who could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting > to > several related newsgroups. > You’re too lazy to do any research. > Asking people to share their experiences with a medication is being "lazy"? > Somehow, I don’t get that connection. Discussion with others = laziness? > > If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. > I’ll do as I please, just as you have done. > Of course, you can do as you please. You can go stand on your head now for > an hour, if you wish. He was just making a request. Of course he cannot > force you to do anything. Is there something wrong with his making a > request, regarding how his message is replied to? > > I will probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one > you are reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might > never > see it. > You post to a NG you don’t read and you reckon you’re not a troll? > I don’t see anything in his post that has the slightest connection to being > a troll. Serious questions, related to all the newsgroups he posted to. > Nothing vaguely related to trollery in that. Trolldom has nothing to do with > what or how many newsgroups one posts to, but has to do with the content of > what is written. > > Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, > so do not reply via e-mail. > You’re such a man. Mashed email = troll. > Oh, you’re being macho now, insulting his manhood? A real man prints his > real e-mail address to his newsgroup posts, ensuring that he’ll get tons of > spam? A lot of people use fake e-mail addresses in their newsgroup posts, > including myself, as that’s the surest way to avoid spam, as spammers have > programs that "harvest" e-mail addresses from newsgroups. You sure have a > strange definition of what is a "troll". > There are plenty of real trolls on Usenet, especially on the mental health > newsgroups, people who ruin those NGs, filling them with trollery, so it’s > often hard to find the real discussions there. Trolls really wreck many > newsgroups. Better to spend your time fighting the real trolls, rather than > going after someone who starts a serious and relevant discussion. > (Actually, the e-mail address that you use here on the NG > not saying it isn’t, just that it doesn’t look like one to me. Is there a > real domain called "absinthebri.com"? If you yourself are using a fake > e-mail address (as many do on Usenet, to avoid spam and troll e-mails, > nothing wrong with it), why are you slamming him for doing the same thing?) > > Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs above in your reply. > Don’t tell people what to do. > Again, he made a request, he did not "tell you what to do". Yes Brian, you > are free to do as you wish. You are a free man. No one is "telling you what > to do". > > Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion of the issues > raised. > You post, I reply; you get what you get. You have shown Usenet no respect > whatsoever by cross-posting your troll instructions. > There is no Usenet law against cross-posting. And nothing at all trollish in > what he wrote. Again, if you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real > ones to go after. > If you are concerned about your medication see your doctor. You are > unlikely > to get medically qualified advice here (however valid the personal > experiences may be). > Of course, only one’s personal doctor can decide what medication is right > for the patient. That said, it’s understandable that people want to share > ideas, discuss experiences, etc. Otherwise, what are these medical > newsgroups for? You could say that to anyone writing to a medical newsgroup, > asking to hear about other’s experiences–"don’t write here, see your > doctor". What are newsgroups for then, IYO, if asking about other’s > experience with a condition, treatment, medication, etc. is taboo? > I think this guy (Edgar) would have been better off if he had skipped the > part at the beginning, in which he explained why he was posting his message > to several NGs.  You might have then paid more attention to what he was > writing about. (And I see another guy answered him by only quoting that > part, and then asking "What was the question?", I guess not wanting to read > farther than that.) So, by trying to explain the cross-posting at the > beginning, some people make that the issue, rather than reading farther to > see what the man was trying to discuss. He (Edgar) should have just started > with the issue, rather than starting with an apology/explanation for > cross-posting, for which there was really no need to apologize. Or, he > should have at least left that explanation to the end, rather than at the > beginning, as it seems some people couldn’t get further than that. > Brian, you seem to be in a bad mood today. There’s really no reason to take > it out on this guy, for asking about people’s experiences with a medication. > If you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real ones out there. > I hope there are others who really give this guy (Edgar) their input into > his questions, that this discussion doesn’t degenerate into a fight about > cross-posting.

Response:

> But in > general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on > as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner?

They usually start immediately and become less after 2 weeks or so. MB

Response:

>If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem >knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for >you.

I know that I replied to you on one group only and I’d be willing to bet others did too.  Many of us feel uncomfortable posting to 10-15 ng’s.  My personal, unsolicited suggestion to you would be to check the ng’s you posted to.  You might find some valuable replies from people who really cared and took the time to write, yet didn’t cross-post. (About this one –  I don’t know what group the original poster is reading and don’t have his email address – btw, you can avoid spam and help us write to you by adding little things to your email address that would make your real address obvious to us.  I never get spam the way I’ve got my return address set up yet I do get very nice mail from people on my ng.) – Jen

Response:

> I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while > spamming 11 groups.

I guess you have an unusual definition of the word "spam". From what I understand the meaning of the word to be, in its Internet (not canned meat) usage, it refers to unsolicited e-mail ads. That is what the anti-spam fake e-mail address for newsgroup posting protects from, as the spammers get their e-mail spam lists from newsgroups. Was there any advertising in what I wrote? I was not selling Prozac, just asking questions about it, wanting to discuss it. I explained my reason for posting to several newsgroups, that all could have some relation to the topic of Prozac. Cross-posting does not equal "spam". Spam is unsolicited unwanted bulk advertising on the Internet. > Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect > profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous > positive benefits.

If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for you. (I think I asked this in another post already (not the original one), but don’t know if you saw it.) From what I have heard and read, including from my psychiatrist, it takes a while for one to start experiencing the positive benefits of Prozac, perhaps even 4 to 6 weeks. My question is: if one is also going to experience some negative side effects of Prozac, such as those discussed, will that happen at about the same time? Will that also take weeks? Or would one experience the side effects sooner-immediately, a few days, one week? Of course, I know that medications affect each individual differently, so there is no way to give a definitive answer regarding how long it might take me to feel negative side effects of the medication, if I am going to feel any. But in general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner? Thank you for your input.

Response:

>Dave, you obviously have a strong bias against medications for psychiatric >problems.

Obvious because I’m honest? Frankly, psychiatric treatment usually isn’t any better, although CBT is a vast improvement over psychoanalysis/ECT/leeches. >I don’t know whether or not Prozac might or might not help Edgar, >and what the side effects might be like for him, I’ve never taken it myself, >but I do know that a lot of people have been significantly helped by such >medications, their lives turned around. I don’t think your standpoint >automatically against such medications is correct.

I don’t think your assumption that I’m automatically against such medications is correct either.  But it’s not the first time I’ve been accused of it. > Almost guaranteed to.  It’s pretty obvious that your immune system is > messed up, with Adderall and Prozac being stimulants, it’s not going to > help. >Prozac is an anti-depressant, not a stimulant.

No.  Prozac is a SSRI. You see, depression in DSM-IV doesn’t mean depression any more.  The criteria have tended towards the symptoms of people that Prozac might actually help. >I’ve never heard that either type has an effect on the immune system. >Show us your source for either drug affecting the immune system.

It’s common sense really.  You can start with Candace Pert’s Molecules of Emotion: "every neuropeptide receptor we could find in the brain is also on the surface of the human monocyte." > You do know that Adderall is Speed, right?  The exact same Speed that > young people buy illegally, possess illegally, take in clubs illegally > and often get addicted to. >The stimulant dosages used for treatment of ADD are not at all comparable to >the dosages used by illegal recreational speed users.

Please define "not at all comparable". > I once took 400mg of Prozac.  Was fun for about an hour and a half.  You > see, it peaks after an hour.  And yet doctors tell you to take it for > 4-6 weeks.  No-one knows why. >Sounds like you are one of those recreational drug users. People don’t take >Prozac for "fun", but because it has been prescribed to them for serious >problems. And no one takes 400 mg of it at once! That’s an incredible dose. >Lucky you’re alive!

You’re right, it was 40mg.  Maximum recommended dosage is 80mg. >Yes, doctors do "know why" they prescribe medicines for the length of time they >prescribe it for.

But you don’t?  Go ask one – I’d love to hear their answer. > Dave (professional PSYCHO-therapist), http://www.deep-trance.com >You are a professional "psycho-therapist"? Hard to believe.

Like I care what you believe. >(I don’t have time to look at the web site now.) (Easier to believe the part before the >hyphen, as one might have to be "psycho" to take 400 mg of Prozac.) What are >your credentials as a psychotherapist? Is your method of therapy to put >people in a "deep trance" (from the name of your web site). Are you a >hypnotist?

I could explain it to you, but that would take a long time and you probably still wouldn’t get it.  No offence – but I’ve tried that before. No, I don’t like pushing my authority and I wouldn’t wish anyone to pander to it. The only people I give credence to are those who are able to justify what they say with common sense. Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com Goodbye freedom: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25891.html

Response:

> Nothing "brave" or "non-brave" about it. It is effective in avoiding spam, > as spammers harvest e-mail addresses from newsgroups. I do it too.

I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while spamming 11 groups. > Prozac to the ADD med), it doesn’t sound like he is suicidal,

Patients usually don’t volunteer this information, particularly over the Internet.  And patients can *become* suicidal after starting an SSRI. There have been lawsuits in the US over it, so I suspect that doctors there are prone to ‘do something’ to try to avoid it. > Just to point out, that when you say something like "the side effects of > Prozac are trivial, compared to the effects of serious depression, suicidal > behavior, etc.", that probably is relevant to many people, but perhaps not > to this guy, if he doesn’t have those conditions, and doesn’t know whether > the Prozac will really help him at all with the organizational problems, > etc. So his weighing of the side effects might be different than with > someone who is suffering from serious depression.

I doubt it.  He hasn’t experienced any of those side effects yet.  Wait till he’s on the medication and then ask him how he feels. > What do you mean by "well liked because of its side effects"?

Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous positive benefits.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact that I >posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. If you look at the list >of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are related to the topic. I >don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone reading who >could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting to >several related newsgroups. >If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. I will >probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one you are >reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might never see it. >Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, so >do not reply via e-mail. Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs >above in your reply. Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion >of the issues raised. >A few days ago I was prescribed Prozac by my psychiatrist. I just picked it >up at the pharmacy today, and  haven’t yet taken it, >Just for some background–I’m male, 50 years old, this is the first time >I’ve been prescribed any kind of anti-depressant. Just recently I was >diagnosed with ADD (non-hyperactive type-difficulty organizing, staying on >task, getting things done, etc.) and have been taking Adderall for a month. >The doctor is now adding Prozac to it, thinking that my problem might be >partially caused by anxiety. >When he first prescribed it for me on Wednesday, he specified the brand name >Prozac on the prescription, 10 mg tablets. One week taking a half tablet >once per day, then 1 tablet for the next week, 1