SSRIs

Question:

I know an arse. Who thinks changing the clock is going to make this crap stick. Count Down Begins. why bother?

Response:

Just one opinion, but I think your conspiracy theory is absurd.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> please correct your date.  You’re top-posting. > — > I know a man who saw God so clearly that he lost all faith. > — Aegidius of Assisi quoted in "The Silent Cry" by Dorothee Soelle > I hope that after I die, people will say of me: ‘That guy sure owed me a > lot > of money.’ > – Jack Handey > Dear Group > Greetings. I am a bipolar disordered individual who is finding this group > absolutely superb. Whereas most groups waste your time with irrelevancies > and indulgences, this group is substance to the max, and bears witness > therefore to the perception that we sufferers of bipolarity and allied > conditions lack nothing in depth. > I was only diagnosed last Nov. after a severe experience where depression > triggered a profound mystical opening (this has been the pattern of my > life). Essentially my perception is that what we ’suffer’ from is foremost > a > spiritual affliction, a kind of inability to adjust our frequencies to > those > of the majority, whose own more conditioned frequencies tend to fall > within > agreeable parameters for the easy management of the soceity > they create and further condition. > I feel very strongly – and you are most welcome to agree, disagree or > otherwise feed back – that the appearance of SSRIs such as Prozac and > other > such ‘upper downers’ (my term, I even wrote a song about it;) > are the establishment response to the challenge of the restlessness of the > middle class white population in the wake of the societal upheavals of the > late 60s and early 70s. Look at it this way (and this is highly > theoretical, > if a little too credible to dismiss): In the late 60s and early 70s the > unrest in the West, esp. in the West, amongst the white middle class – > which > was unprecedented in its style and content – must have been very > concerning > to the control structure. They had already started dealing with some > success > with the problems of > ethnic minority rebellion by running hard, highly addictive drugs into > inner > city areas, etc (this is now a matter of record) thus turning the > rebellious > energy in on itself. But what to do with the more ‘important’ middle class > strata of society, who were also showing signs of discontent and unease? > The control structure realised that different rules had to apply for this > latter group. Hence the arising of a new kind of addictive and, if > anything, > even more insidious kind of drug. A kind of drug that would desensitise, > render more submissive, and crucially undermine spiritual aspects of the > human being (which are causal in the kind of unrest seen as necessary to > suppress) whilst leaving most users able to function as needed for society > at large to continue to endorse and support the control structure. Eureka! > SSRIs! Prozac!! Cipramil!! Zispin!! Miracle drugs (sic) to treat > ‘depression’ which is in any case often just a nautral process of > spiritual > awakening where the initial symptoms of a change of awareness and > consciousness – the coming to awareness first of the negative energy > forms – > that would eventually, if treated intelligently, give way to new growth in > the mind, body and spirit, are instead hammered ruthlessly into clinical > negatives. > Is this mad raving? Conspiracy theory?? I doubt it. As a sufferer for a > quarter century from bipolarity I am not ‘blaming anybody’ and I am > realist. > All I am saying is that it seems a little uncanny that all these Prozac > drugs and their boosters appeared when they did. This is a form of > spiritual > warfare we’re seeing, and it is intensifying. The economic battle is won. > Now the battle for our souls has begun. Literally. Even TV, MTV, video > games, movies, and all the other paraphenalia of distraction has not been > enough to > deter awakening awareness at this time. The ‘drugs’ are the best hope > ‘they’ > have of making ‘us’ them. > Comments welcome…and thanx for a magnificent resource and > support…Cybermystic

Response:

Don’t forget the shadow prez is on prozac.

Response:

please correct your date.  You’re top-posting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > I know a man who saw God so clearly that he lost all faith. > — Aegidius of Assisi quoted in "The Silent Cry" by Dorothee Soelle > I hope that after I die, people will say of me: ‘That guy sure owed me a lot > of money.’ > – Jack Handey > Dear Group > Greetings. I am a bipolar disordered individual who is finding this group > absolutely superb. Whereas most groups waste your time with irrelevancies > and indulgences, this group is substance to the max, and bears witness > therefore to the perception that we sufferers of bipolarity and allied > conditions lack nothing in depth. > I was only diagnosed last Nov. after a severe experience where depression > triggered a profound mystical opening (this has been the pattern of my > life). Essentially my perception is that what we ’suffer’ from is foremost a > spiritual affliction, a kind of inability to adjust our frequencies to those > of the majority, whose own more conditioned frequencies tend to fall within > agreeable parameters for the easy management of the soceity > they create and further condition. > I feel very strongly – and you are most welcome to agree, disagree or > otherwise feed back – that the appearance of SSRIs such as Prozac and other > such ‘upper downers’ (my term, I even wrote a song about it;) > are the establishment response to the challenge of the restlessness of the > middle class white population in the wake of the societal upheavals of the > late 60s and early 70s. Look at it this way (and this is highly theoretical, > if a little too credible to dismiss): In the late 60s and early 70s the > unrest in the West, esp. in the West, amongst the white middle class – which > was unprecedented in its style and content – must have been very concerning > to the control structure. They had already started dealing with some success > with the problems of > ethnic minority rebellion by running hard, highly addictive drugs into inner > city areas, etc (this is now a matter of record) thus turning the rebellious > energy in on itself. But what to do with the more ‘important’ middle class > strata of society, who were also showing signs of discontent and unease? > The control structure realised that different rules had to apply for this > latter group. Hence the arising of a new kind of addictive and, if anything, > even more insidious kind of drug. A kind of drug that would desensitise, > render more submissive, and crucially undermine spiritual aspects of the > human being (which are causal in the kind of unrest seen as necessary to > suppress) whilst leaving most users able to function as needed for society > at large to continue to endorse and support the control structure. Eureka! > SSRIs! Prozac!! Cipramil!! Zispin!! Miracle drugs (sic) to treat > ‘depression’ which is in any case often just a nautral process of spiritual > awakening where the initial symptoms of a change of awareness and > consciousness – the coming to awareness first of the negative energy forms – > that would eventually, if treated intelligently, give way to new growth in > the mind, body and spirit, are instead hammered ruthlessly into clinical > negatives. > Is this mad raving? Conspiracy theory?? I doubt it. As a sufferer for a > quarter century from bipolarity I am not ‘blaming anybody’ and I am realist. > All I am saying is that it seems a little uncanny that all these Prozac > drugs and their boosters appeared when they did. This is a form of spiritual > warfare we’re seeing, and it is intensifying. The economic battle is won. > Now the battle for our souls has begun. Literally. Even TV, MTV, video > games, movies, and all the other paraphenalia of distraction has not been > enough to > deter awakening awareness at this time. The ‘drugs’ are the best hope ‘they’ > have of making ‘us’ them. > Comments welcome…and thanx for a magnificent resource and > support…Cybermystic

Response:

Smell the fart.

Response:

Way past China’s Shore.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steps" >Smell the fart. > Clear across the Sea?? > — > "Caution, the surgeon general has found that psychiatric > treatements cause poverty and mental illness."

Response:

Question:

Paxil Causes Withdrawal in Infants Short-Term Symptoms Are Intense, Require Hospitalization By   Jeanie Davis   WebMD Medical News  Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD May 6, 2002 — Women taking the antidepressant Paxil should know this: If they get pregnant, their baby could go through a withdrawal period right after birth — one that causes respiratory problems and hospitalization for up to two weeks. However, researchers say, there don’t seem to be any long-term negative effects on the infant. Paxil is one of the antidepressants known as SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and is commonly prescribed for depression, anxiety, and panic disorder. "However, Paxil is a little bit different from the other SSRIs … in adults, it has higher rates of discontinuation syndrome — problems when people abruptly stop taking the drug — like nervousness, sleep problems, sweating," says Gideon Koren, MD, professor of pediatrics, pharmacology, and medicine and medical genetics at the University of Toronto. Koren’s previous studies and others "have shown that SSRIs are safe in pregnancy, that they do not cause malformations in the fetus," he tells WebMD. His current study focuses on the effects of Paxil on the newborn infant — whether a baby exposed to Paxil throughout the mother’s pregnancy experiences any withdrawal symptoms. He presented his paper today at the annual meeting of the Pediatric Academic Societies in Baltimore. The study involved 55 women who took Paxil throughout their pregnancies, 27 women who stopped taking Paxil after the second trimester, and 27 women who took other drugs considered not to cause birth defects. Twelve of the babies exposed to Paxil through the third trimester had complications that lasted one to two weeks and required hospitalization. The problems: respiratory distress in nine infants, low blood sugar in two infants, and jaundice in one. "But the good news is, [the complications] were short term," Koren tells WebMD. "None of these babies had long-term adverse effects from the Paxil." In the comparison group, two infants exposed to Paxil in the first and second trimesters had respiratory distress and a complication in which the infant breathes in its own feces while still in the womb. A third infant who was not exposed to Paxil was born with jaundice. In the third trimester-exposed group, 36 women breastfed and continued taking Paxil after delivery. Eight women reported symptoms in their babies including difficulties with alertness, constipation, sleepiness, and irritability, but the majority of women reported no such symptoms. In the comparison group, 44 babies were breastfed and none of the mothers reported symptoms. "Breast milk may have a protective effect," says Koren. "If mom took the drug through pregnancy and she continues through breastfeeding, the baby is supplemented with lower levels of the drug and may be protected from these effects — gradually weaned off the drug."

Response:

Paxil Causes Withdrawal in Infants Short-Term Symptoms Are Intense, Require Hospitalization By   Jeanie Davis   WebMD Medical News  Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD May 6, 2002 — Women taking the antidepressant Paxil should know this: If they get pregnant, their baby could go through a withdrawal period right after birth — one that causes respiratory problems and hospitalization for up to two weeks. However, researchers say, there don’t seem to be any long-term negative effects on the infant. Paxil is one of the antidepressants known as SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and is commonly prescribed for depression, anxiety, and panic disorder. "However, Paxil is a little bit different from the other SSRIs … in adults, it has higher rates of discontinuation syndrome — problems when people abruptly stop taking the drug — like nervousness, sleep problems, sweating," says Gideon Koren, MD, professor of pediatrics, pharmacology, and medicine and medical genetics at the University of Toronto. Koren’s previous studies and others "have shown that SSRIs are safe in pregnancy, that they do not cause malformations in the fetus," he tells WebMD. His current study focuses on the effects of Paxil on the newborn infant — whether a baby exposed to Paxil throughout the mother’s pregnancy experiences any withdrawal symptoms. He presented his paper today at the annual meeting of the Pediatric Academic Societies in Baltimore. The study involved 55 women who took Paxil throughout their pregnancies, 27 women who stopped taking Paxil after the second trimester, and 27 women who took other drugs considered not to cause birth defects. Twelve of the babies exposed to Paxil through the third trimester had complications that lasted one to two weeks and required hospitalization. The problems: respiratory distress in nine infants, low blood sugar in two infants, and jaundice in one. "But the good news is, [the complications] were short term," Koren tells WebMD. "None of these babies had long-term adverse effects from the Paxil." In the comparison group, two infants exposed to Paxil in the first and second trimesters had respiratory distress and a complication in which the infant breathes in its own feces while still in the womb. A third infant who was not exposed to Paxil was born with jaundice. In the third trimester-exposed group, 36 women breastfed and continued taking Paxil after delivery. Eight women reported symptoms in their babies including difficulties with alertness, constipation, sleepiness, and irritability, but the majority of women reported no such symptoms. In the comparison group, 44 babies were breastfed and none of the mothers reported symptoms. "Breast milk may have a protective effect," says Koren. "If mom took the drug through pregnancy and she continues through breastfeeding, the baby is supplemented with lower levels of the drug and may be protected from these effects — gradually weaned off the drug."

Response:

Question:

I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of us that are prone toward it? Louise

Response:

> I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. > Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of > us that are prone toward it? > Louise

I have the same problem with SSRI and tried Serzone (no hypomanic reaction but made me sleep all the time) and Manerix (moclobemide), a good antidepressant with very little side effects that is not available in the US. alias.p

Response:

> I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. > Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of > us that are prone toward it? > Louise

I understand that the new direction of anti-depressants, after patents expire soon such as on prozac, will actually be a backwards direction, towards tricyclics. You might explore those, and also consider that wellburtin (is supposed to) effects dopamine rather than seratonin. I believe wellbutrin is more commonly prescribed to patients who might experience (hypo)mania. You also need to discuss these things with your doctor.

Response:

That’s odd since Wellbutrin is definitely one of the speediest of current ADs, often causing insomnia in fact.

Response:

> That’s odd since Wellbutrin is definitely one of the speediest of current ADs, > often causing insomnia in fact.

What’s even more odd, is that neurontin is used as a mood stabilizer, yet causes almost immediate hypomania. They might use it as an anti depressant now, I’m not sure.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a hypomanic reaction to SSRIs. > Is there anything out there that doesn’t lead to hypomania in those of > us that are prone toward it? > Louise > I understand that the new direction of anti-depressants, after patents > expire soon such as on prozac, will actually be a backwards direction, > towards tricyclics. You might explore those, and also consider that > wellburtin (is supposed to) effects dopamine rather than seratonin. I > believe wellbutrin is more commonly prescribed to patients who might > experience (hypo)mania. > You also need to discuss these things with your doctor.

I took Wellbutrin a while ago and was so-o-o-o irritable I couldn’t stand myself! Louise

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ->> Those pretty pictures on the NIMH website? Quite impressive. What > ->> treatment do they suggest? CBT? Meds? EEG Neurotherapy? What did your > ->> PET show? > -> > ->My PET, nothing.  Neither did my MRI as I was being used as a control > ->subject. > ->Once you know what part of the brain is involved you then have > ->implications on how to treat it.  For example, the focus for parkinson’s > ->is quite specific and because of that specificity we know that certain > ->medications will reduce the intensity of symptoms.  Same rationale for > ->neurosurgery.  In Alzheimer’s we know that there is an inefficient > ->processing of acetylcholine and lo and behold medications that enhance > ->acetylcholine slow down the progression of the disorder. > If you determine what part of the brain is involved, you are not > assuming medication is the only solution I hope.

Has anyone here EVER said that medications are the only answer. >  A PET is simply a snapshot of the brain at that particular moment, > nothing more, nothing less. It is not a predictor of how the brain > will look tomorrow, nor next week.

actually it is.  Tumors are unlikely to go away, dead tissue is unlikely to come alive, the way the brain is functioning today will be more alike how it is functioning tomorrow than it will be different. > People have been given PET’s and > told to recall sad thoughts and moments, and it resembles the > "depressed brain".

not really.  There are changes in the brain but those changes are unique unto themselves and not like the "depressed brain." > If used as a diagnostic tool, some just plain > recalling sad events, or any emotion while the PET is going on can be > dx’d with any number of "diseases" when compared with a "normal" > brain. > It’s useless as a DX tool…..

That’s the purpose of testing multiple people accross multiple times. Single case studies are interesting but don’t tell a whole lot about the brain in general.  When samples are large, background noise can be statistically controlled and you get some pretty convincing and consistent patterns. — "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." – Albert Einstein in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas (Einstein’s secretary) and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

Response:

Mark, please forgive a stupid question, but why are you trying to carry on a rational debate with someone who admits that he’s "nutso"? — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

>  A PET is simply a snapshot of the brain at that particular moment, > nothing more, nothing less. It is not a predictor of how the brain > will look tomorrow, nor next week. People have been given PET’s and > told to recall sad thoughts and moments, and it resembles the > "depressed brain". If used as a diagnostic tool, some just plain > recalling sad events, or any emotion while the PET is going on can be > dx’d with any number of "diseases" when compared with a "normal" > brain. > It’s useless as a DX tool…..

Do you also consider X-rays, mammograms, CT scans, etc… "useless as a DX tool"?  After all, they, too, are simply "snapshots of the ____ at a particular moment, nothing more, nothing less…not a predictor of how the ____ will look tomorrow, nor next week." (At _____, insert whatever is tested with X-rays, mammograms, CT scans, etc…bones, organs, tissue, etc)…also, the exact same can be said about bloodwork, urinalysis, etc… — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ->> If you determine what part of the brain is involved, you are not > ->> assuming medication is the only solution I hope. > -> > ->Has anyone here EVER said that medications are the only answer. > I don’t think one could deny it is by far the answer most often > chosen, and on what basis? > ->actually it is.  Tumors are unlikely to go away, dead tissue is unlikely > ->to come alive, the way the brain is functioning today will be more alike > ->how it is functioning tomorrow than it will be different. > Not when it comes to dopamine levels, glucose levels, and other > theories of ADHD. > ->That’s the purpose of testing multiple people accross multiple times. > ->Single case studies are interesting but don’t tell a whole lot about the > ->brain in general.  When samples are large, background noise can be > ->statistically controlled and you get some pretty convincing and > ->consistent patterns. > In the real world, insurance companies don’t even touch a PET scan, > but for various forms of cancer, so the realistic chance of even > getting one to prove this "theory" is slim to none.

you are the one who introduced PET scans. — "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." – Albert Einstein in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas (Einstein’s secretary) and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

Response:

> ->Do you also consider X-rays, mammograms, CT scans, etc… "useless as a DX > ->tool"?  After all, they, too, are simply "snapshots of the ____ at a > ->particular moment, nothing more, nothing less…not a predictor of how the > ->____ will look tomorrow, nor next week." (At _____, insert whatever is > ->tested with X-rays, mammograms, CT scans, etc…bones, organs, tissue, > ->etc)…also, the exact same can be said about bloodwork, urinalysis, etc… > Yes, but they also have the potential for finding real diseases. > Another dumb analogy, the breast and the brain? That’s worse than ADHD > and eye color.

Both are parts of the body-are they not?  Should one part of the body be deemed unworthy of study, unworthy of diagnosing?  Or is the brain somehow "above" that-is it not capable of injury, disease, or difference?  What makes the brain different from any other organ in the body? — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

Response:

> ->> In the real world, insurance companies don’t even touch a PET scan, > ->> but for various forms of cancer, so the realistic chance of even > ->> getting one to prove this "theory" is slim to none. > -> > ->you are the one who introduced PET scans. > So then, they are useless?

no Why is it that I get the impression that several of "you" are engaging in categorical, black and white thinking?  For example, the assertion that we know nothing of how the brain works. While we may not know everything we know lots of things.  While PET may not be the most effective way of diagnosing ADHD, it has it’s uses and those uses may be in an arena other than diagnosis. — "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

Response:

> >Why is it that I get the impression that several of "you" are engaging >in categorical, black and white thinking?  For example, the assertion >that we know nothing of how the brain works. While we may not know >everything we know lots of things.  While PET may not be the most >effective way of diagnosing ADHD, it has it’s uses and those uses may be >in an arena other than diagnosis. > Really, I interested as to what uses other than diagnosis they have – > in the real world that is and not some biopsychiatry fantasyland.

Well, not using them certainly helps perpetuate the "we know nothing about the brain" perspective.  If you are going to learn about the brain, it is going to be essential to do the type of research that will allow one to do that learning.  Imaging studies are one such way. — "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

Response:

>->Mark, please forgive a stupid question, but why are you trying to carry >->on a rational debate with someone who admits that he’s "nutso"? >-> >->– >Beyond your level? Just think of Nutso as "biological", we are >mentally ill brothers!

    There’s a difference between "genetically ADHD" and "purposefully stupid".       You’re not demonstrating signs of insanity on any level that I can see.  I suppose it *IS* possible that your stupidity is biological… were you ever dropped on your head as an infant? — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten.  Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.

Response:

> I never said the brain is unworthy of diagnosis, just that current > biopsychiatry isn’t even close to having a method of accurately > diagnosing ADHD, unless your living in some fantasy world.

Your repeated refusal to consider other points of view as valid-insisting that they belong to those who live in fantasy worlds is becoming quite boring…. <plonk> — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

Response:

> >Beyond your level? Just think of Nutso as "biological", we are >mentally ill brothers! >     There’s a difference between "genetically ADHD" and "purposefully > stupid".

Genetic? Huh? Where is the ADHD gene? Another "theory" not proven. Saying it over and over doesn’t make it so. I guess you are purposefully stupid then?

Response:

says… > ->> I agree, it’a all a theory. > -> > ->and a theory that has empirical support to back it up. > Once a theory has the support to back it up, it is no longer a theory.

It isn’t?  Then what is it? And if you’ve really killfiled me you won’t respond to this.  If you do respond we know you’re a liar. — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

> ONe theory that ADHD only exists in the minds of greedy pdocs and drug > companies..  OH and lazy or overworked school teachers

"lazy or overworked school teachers"…LOL…you mean to tell me that you think that a teacher complaining about a hyper kid would instinctively ask for *stimulants*???? When is the last time you were in a classroom?  Some of use in asad (like me) have been volunteering in classrooms (my specialty is special ed) for many years….what is your experience? — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

Response:

> ->Prof, I believe you are in the wrong newsgroup.  This is > ->alt.support.attn-deficit.  You want alt.support.morons. > Isn’t it one in the same?

<SNIP of the third identical post in response to different questions in thread> Hmmmm… the psychological aspect of repetition…."say it often enough and you (and others) will believe it"? — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > -> > ->> I thought the theory was that ADHD was a "chemical imbalance"? > -> > ->That’s a gross oversimplification. > ->one theory is that the reticular activating system is under > activated.->There’s other research that points to underactivation of > the right->frontal striatum.  Certain medications increase that > arousal level and->bring the activation level to baseline. > -> > ->That’s not the same thing as saying "chemical imbalances *cause* X, > Y,->or Z." > I agree, it’a all a theory.

Einstein’s had several theories.  There are many many theories and few actual Laws in science. I guess you don’t know much about science do you. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

> ->> I agree, it’a all a theory. > -> > ->and a theory that has empirical support to back it up. > Once a theory has the support to back it up, it is no longer a theory.

Theories are supported or refuted, not proven. > So what is the empirical support for the ADHD mental illness theory > that ADHD is caused by [insert theory here]?

have you looked at the imaging studies? > Is it the "reticular activating system is under activated" theory, or > the "underactivation of the right frontal striatum" theory?

yes, and theories that have empirical support. > Yet another "mental illness" voted in by the APA, and modified, now > looking to "science" to explain the stereotyped set of symptoms.

– "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

Response:

> Psychologists allowed to prescribe drugs for mental illness > Deborah Josefson Nebraska > New Mexico has become the first US state to allow psychologists to prescribe > drugs. The controversial move pits psychologists against psychiatrists and may > be followed by similar legislation in other states. > Clinical psychologists hold doctoral degrees and have extensive training in > psychotherapy but are not medically qualified.

wanna bet? — "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

Response:

> ->Einstein’s had several theories.  There are many many theories and > few->actual Laws in science. I guess you don’t know much about science > do->you. > That theory of gravity, is that a law?

Law of Gravity —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

> >Einstein’s had several theories.  There are many many theories and >few actual Laws in science. I guess you don’t know much about science >do you. > Psychiatry is to Science > As Astrology is to Astronomy

Actually, that is a very inapt comparison.  Astrology knows what stars to look at and measure them very very precisely in the sky.  Those stars (planets) pass through the constellations at the same time each year. It was astrologists who found the patterns in the sky.  1000 years ago the two were synonomous.  People used it to measure when to farm.  It’s a tool to measure the seasons and years. Astrology is the study of the pattern of the stars. Astronomy is the study of those stars. The problem is that, though, real astrologists are scientists, theirs been a lot of crappy mumbo jumbo put into it, like those stupid monthly or daily horoscope deals.  Those are written in a precise manner so that there is little chance they could be wrong.  That’s a different science and has more to do with sociology…hehe. I’ve heard this quote before, and it’s just plain silly.  It shows only the ignorance of the person posting it. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

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>->> That theory of gravity, is that a law? >-> >->Law of Gravity >Yes, at some point a theory is either dismissed, or actually means >something. There can’t be 10 theories of gravity.

     Nod.  There’s "Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation", and Einstein’s theory of general relativity.  Both explain gravity.  There probably can’t be ten theories of gravity; that’s only two, and they explain nearly everything about it. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten.  Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > -> > ->> I thought the theory was that ADHD was a "chemical imbalance"? > -> > ->That’s a gross oversimplification. > ->one theory is that the reticular activating system is under activated. > ->There’s other research that points to underactivation of the right > ->frontal striatum.  Certain medications increase that arousal level and > ->bring the activation level to baseline. > -> > ->That’s not the same thing as saying "chemical imbalances *cause* X, Y, > ->or Z." > I agree, it’a all a theory.

and a theory that has empirical support to back it up. — "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

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> Here’s the truth: no one has any idea how the brain works.  

another gross over simplification. Just because we don’t have the brain mapped out and understood completely, that is not equivalent to saying "we don’t know how it works."  There is a large body of knowledge as to how the brain works. > No one has any idea how psychotropic drugs work.  

ditto > There are no "mental illnesses."

what were you saying about "appeals to authority?" > Talking about "serotonin levels" as if you could put a > dipstick in your brain and measure them is laughable.  Don’t be such a > bunch of suckers.

actually, you are the sucker for perpetuating that image.  Everyone else can see through who you are. > The relationship between consciousness and neurochemistry probably > won’t be unraveled with another thousand years of research.

it’s being unraveled every day > Just for starters (assuming anyone is willing to think):  When SSRIs > were new, we were supposed to believe that they corrected the specific > "chemical imbalance" that "caused" depression.  

if you could pull your head out of your ass long enough to provide a citation for this, it would be appreciated.  Nobody asserted a causal link. > They were "selective." > Leaving aside the fact that (1) pharmacodynamic selectivity was > deliberately conflated with selectivity for mood states for marketing > purposes, (2) the causality between neurochemistry and consciousness > isn’t even *slightly* understood,

it is more than slighly understood but, albeit, less than completely understood > and (3) the phrase "chemical > imbalance" doesn’t actually mean anything,

so stop using it–you seem to be the one stuck on it. — "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >-> "I ‘had’ it"….is like saying, "I ‘had’ diabetes….I ‘had’ >->autism….I ‘had’ brown eyes….", you don’t "outgrow" ADHD, autism, brown >->eyes, diabetes… though with intervention, therapy, training (colored >->contacts), you can learn coping mechanisms enough to mask it and "pass for >->normal"…. >-> >->Or, you can be like me– "I have ADHD, but my symptoms are not noticeable >->when on medication and with the proper supports in place"…. >You are assuming the diagnosis made was a correct one. I function just >fine without an amphetamine, facing no greater challenges than the >average Joe. I never had "it" to get rid of. >I thought the theory was that ADHD was a "chemical imbalance"? Are you >saying chemical imbalances and mental illnesses are permanent?

     Wow… the straw man fallacy, bifurcation, and begging the question.  Not bad. >ADHD sure is a strange "chemical imbalance". It’s OK to correct it >from 7-3 in kids, but let the chemical balance bounce back? It also >seems to target white middle class American boys. Maybe it’s >selective. <shrug>

    Have you ever noticed that no one who has not had an HIV test has ever been diagnosed as HIV positive?  Does this suggest that HIV infection is caused by HIV testing? — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten.  Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.

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>> I often wonder what people hope to >accomplish with bad logic, poor science, and, frequently, outright >lies. >Welcome to psychiatry!

Thank you for an excellent example of trying to accomplish something with bad logic, poor science, and, frequently, outright lies, but what I was asking was *WHAT* you think you might accomplish, not for another example of you trying to accomplish it. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten.  Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.

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> I thought the theory was that ADHD was a "chemical imbalance"?

That’s a gross oversimplification. one theory is that the reticular activating system is under activated. There’s other research that points to underactivation of the right frontal striatum.  Certain medications increase that arousal level and bring the activation level to baseline. That’s not the same thing as saying "chemical imbalances *cause* X, Y, or Z." … > Set the follow-ups as you wish – I’m in the depression medication > group. I thought it relevant in the Depression NG’s as Ritalin seems > to be increasing used as an adjunct to anti-depressants.

because it’s activating and can often make the difference between sitting around feeling sorry for yourself or becoming engaged with life such that the depression can be treated. — "How do you do Nothing?" asked Pooh. "Well, it’s when people call out at you just as you’re going off to do it, `What are you going to do, Christopher Robin?’ and you say, `Oh, nothing’ and then you go and do it. It means just going along, listening to all the things you can’t hear, and not bothering." http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm remove peterhood69 for mail

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>What exactly is your interest in ADHD?  Do you have it, treat it, >have a loved one who has it, or are you just a busybody in need of >a life? > I’m working on a FAQ to counter Parsons. I "had" it.

Hmm, I wasn’t aware that trolls actually *read* FAQs, but maybe it would be helpful if a troll wrote a troll-FAQ as the trolls don’t seem to understand that some knowledge on the subject might make them more believable. As you can see, Mr.Clark has helpfully provided some of the more frequently asked questions toward trolls. You’ll have to work a bit to improve the quality of the trolls here, but I’m sure you’ll find it worth your while. Everyone needs something to occupy their time… Good luck! Vashti  

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>What exactly is your interest in ADHD?  Do you have it, treat it, have a >loved one who has it, or are you just a busybody in need of a life? > I’m working on a FAQ to counter Parsons. I "had" it.

First–which of the cross-posted newsgroups are you posting from? alt.support.attn-deficit (where I am posting from), or alt.support.depression.manic? Second… "I ‘had’ it"….is like saying, "I ‘had’ diabetes….I ‘had’ autism….I ‘had’ brown eyes….", you don’t "outgrow" ADHD, autism, brown eyes, diabetes… though with intervention, therapy, training (colored contacts), you can learn coping mechanisms enough to mask it and "pass for normal"…. Or, you can be like me– "I have ADHD, but my symptoms are not noticeable when on medication and with the proper supports in place"…. — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > -> "I ‘had’ it"….is like saying, "I ‘had’ diabetes….I ‘had’ > ->autism….I ‘had’ brown eyes….", you don’t "outgrow" ADHD, autism, brown > ->eyes, diabetes… though with intervention, therapy, training (colored > ->contacts), you can learn coping mechanisms enough to mask it and "pass for > ->normal"…. > -> > ->Or, you can be like me– "I have ADHD, but my symptoms are not noticeable > ->when on medication and with the proper supports in place"…. > You are assuming the diagnosis made was a correct one. I function just > fine without an amphetamine, facing no greater challenges than the > average Joe. I never had "it" to get rid of.

Oh, you confused me with your assertion that "I ‘had’ it"…now you are saying you did not have it….

> I’m working on a FAQ to counter Parsons. I "had" it. > I thought the theory was that ADHD was a "chemical imbalance"? Are you > saying chemical imbalances and mental illnesses are permanent? People > who have the "chemical imbalance" of depression need meds their whole > life? The "chemical imbalance" of panic disorder, they need benzos > their whole life? People who have a psychotic episode from a "chemical > imbalance" need anti-psychotics their whole life?

Depends on the source of the imbalance…if the source of the chemical imbalance is a brain structure that does not produce enough of a chemical (like a pancreas that does not produce enough insulin), then yes, the medication only brings the chemistry to normal temporarily (like insulin injections are only temporary) and the fact of life-long need of such meds is a distinct possibility. However, if the source of the imbalance is something that is temporary (such as lack of sleep, or an allergy to a food reducing the levels of the chemical….as well as hormonal levels/weight gain causing the body to not use insulin efficiently when pregnant-causing gestational diabetes {which I have had]), then the treatment is likewise temporary (a good night’s sleep, avoidance of the allergen…the gestational diabetes is diet/exercise and possible insulin injections *only during the pregnancy*) "One size does not fit all" is a major player in this…. > I’m sure there are a small segment who actually do, including ADHD, > but to compare it to ones eye color is absurd and a stretch by any > reasonable person’s logic. > ADHD sure is a strange "chemical imbalance". It’s OK to correct it > from 7-3 in kids, but let the chemical balance bounce back? It also > seems to target white middle class American boys. Maybe it’s > selective. <shrug>

Interesting…since I am an *adult female* with ADHD….care to explain how that fits into your theory? Not all ADHDers need medication to deal with this–just as not all diabetics need insulin injections…and not diagnosed with diabetes have to live with the problems for life (such as my gestational diabetes-though it does increase my risk for deveolping it later if I do not watch my weight)… > Set the follow-ups as you wish – I’m in the depression medication > group. I thought it relevant in the Depression NG’s as Ritalin seems > to be increasing used as an adjunct to anti-depressants.

Many who have untreated ADHD seem to get depression as well…I wonder if the feelings of failure, the ridicule, the being told "you are only ADHD to get drugs", etc is a factor in this…also the ‘theory’ that some depression is also caused by chemical imbalances in the brain might have something to do with this…. How would you feel if someone took your statements about "ADHD" and meds and substituted "depression" for the ADHD? …don’t worry, we at a.s.a.d, know-because we get it all the time… — Buny —–" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus —– One Size does NOT fit all; Heck, one size don’t even fit MOST!

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What exactly is your interest in ADHD?  Do you have it, treat it, have a loved one who has it, or are you just a busybody in need of a life? — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

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>What exactly is your interest in ADHD?  Do you have it, treat it, have a >loved one who has it, or are you just a busybody in need of a life?

      The last is probably the closest, but Ithink it’s much too kindly put for accuracy.  I often wonder what people hope to accomplish with bad logic, poor science, and, frequently, outright lies. — Everything I needed to know in life, I learned in kindergarten.  Like: Evaluation of the defensive, and retreat, possibilities of your position is essential.  Especially when an angry nun with a metal ruler is approaching.

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Question:

typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. >> the placebo effect >Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. > Prove that he would have killed himself without it?

I have tried to kill myself several times.  I took anti-depressants (zoloft) and my urge to kill myself…died. Admittadly, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all.  They worked for me and many others where other methods have failed. > A sugar pill would have been cheaper and have less long term side > effects..

There were many things that were done to try and make me happy, but ultimately none worked. > But you’re a drug company shill hired by Eli Lilly to post on ASDM.

Why am I a drug company shill?  Who’s Eli Lilly?  I’m posting from asad not asdm. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

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> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. > the placebo effect

Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

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> I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

You are boring B

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> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

This is what is happening to me. I think that it works B

Response:

> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years..

not true!!! I had one three days ago! I have to say, maybe efexor is helping me to have back a normal sex life. B

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> Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- > one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another > bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since > it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the > symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might

know…)…. I am sorry, I am not a bipolar person so I can’t answer you. I am just a chronical depressed – …- The important thing is that you found the right medication, I am still researching the best love B

Response:

When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. > well stop xposting to asdt! > > > EFEXOR > > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > > >  effects. > > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months > on > the > > >  drug, I stuck a > > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I > would > not > > >  wake up and get > > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > > and angry. > > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that > maybe > > > your problem is deeper . > > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you > need > > > friends more than a medicine. > > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. > The > only > > >  thing I can > > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > > >  attempts were > > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all > accounts > I > > >  should be dead. If > > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > > >  not be from > > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, > but > > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you > from > > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > > take care > > > love > > > B > > > > — > > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > > Berty

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Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might know…) Anyway I just want to say that I am allergic to all those SSRIs too.  I posted this yesterday.  They all make me feel much, much worse.  Zoloft led to my only overdose (no one pumped my stomach because I didn’t tell anyone it was a strange 3 days.)   Did you all know that suicide is listed as an effect of these drugs? You can read it on many websites and even in the small print on the folded pamphlet included with your Dr’s samples of the drug.  I also read the pamphlet on Zyprexa, and it says suicide can be a rare effect of that too. I know Zyprexa has antihistamine in it, the same thing that makes you tired in benadryl or sleeping pills, and antihistamine also makes me very depressed. I have noticed the little tendancies on the few occasions I was on Zyprex for it being impossible to sleep. They don’t warn you.  I noticed SSRIs are the first thing slapped down as Rx EVERY TIME I’ve seen a different doctor.  thankfully now I have one and we have found the right medications.  Without them I feel like killing myself too. Though I would never do it.  I know its stupid to do.  But it still sucks when life feels so bad you just want to die all the time, except from September to March.  I have a breakdown every year when it turns from hot to cold or back, like clockwork.  anyone else have that?  I always go in the hospital.   I asked this yesterday too.  Don’t bipolars have Excess serotonin, anyway? Why do they put us on ssris, then? I also read some theory that decreasing serotonin is the way out of depresion, that paxil etc works by bombarding receptors to make them less sensitive to serotonin.  that would make sense.   just what is really chemically different about the bipolar brain?  does anyone know?  I only get 30 minutes with my dr and dont’ see a shrink.  I have many questions and have done a lot of reading.  I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to fix it too.  the doctors only have half the info, and we have the other half.  they don’t have the delusions, mania, and depression.  they dont take the Rxs they prescribe.  They only know half. We should pool our info so we can get out of this predicament. I hate it. Love yall, someone please write to me.

Response:

Hehe, actually, effexor has given me MORE INTENSE orgasms No problems with orgasms or getting my dick up. I’m 22 years old and I’ve been on effexor for about 7 months I think. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years.. >I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. >And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. >> well stop xposting to asdt! >> > > EFEXOR >> > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for >> > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >> > >  effects. >> > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months >on >> the >> > >  drug, I stuck a >> > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I >would >> not >> > >  wake up and get >> > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home >> dejected >> > > and angry. >> > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that >maybe >> > > your problem is deeper . >> > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you >need >> > > friends more than a medicine. >> > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. >> > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, >> > > whith efexor you sleep a lot >> > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and >> > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. >> > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. >> Dont >> > > blame any medicine or whatever… >> > > I feel fantastic, in control and >> > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. >The >> only >> > >  thing I can >> > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My >> suicide >> > >  attempts were >> > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all >accounts >> I >> > >  should be dead. If >> > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it >> would >> > >  not be from >> > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. >> > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I >> exist >> > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, >but >> > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you >from >> > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting >> > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. >> > > take care >> > > love >> > > B >> > > > — >> > > > Psychiatry is to Science >> > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy >> > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups >> > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. >> > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? >> > Berty > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well stop xposting to asdt! > > EFEXOR > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > >  effects. > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on > the > >  drug, I stuck a > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would > not > >  wake up and get > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > and angry. > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > > your problem is deeper . > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > > friends more than a medicine. > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The > only > >  thing I can > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > >  attempts were > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts > I > >  should be dead. If > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > >  not be from > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > take care > > love > > B > > > — > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

well stop xposting to asdt!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > > — > > Psychiatry is to Science > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

EFEXOR   In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected

and angry. Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe your problem is deeper . You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need friends more than a medicine. Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night,

whith efexor you sleep a lot Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life.

I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont blame any medicine or whatever… I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor.

I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. take care love B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. > the placebo effect

Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared. >> the placebo effect >Does it matter why?  The point is it saved his life. > Prove that he would have killed himself without it?

I have tried to kill myself several times.  I took anti-depressants (zoloft) and my urge to kill myself…died. Admittadly, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all.  They worked for me and many others where other methods have failed. > A sugar pill would have been cheaper and have less long term side > effects..

There were many things that were done to try and make me happy, but ultimately none worked. > But you’re a drug company shill hired by Eli Lilly to post on ASDM.

Why am I a drug company shill?  Who’s Eli Lilly?  I’m posting from asad not asdm. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—–     P+++>++++c–>*P6 >?R >++M+>++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL++>+++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

When I took Paxil, my suicide ideas disappeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. > well stop xposting to asdt! > > > EFEXOR > > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > > >  effects. > > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months > on > the > > >  drug, I stuck a > > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I > would > not > > >  wake up and get > > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > > and angry. > > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that > maybe > > > your problem is deeper . > > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you > need > > > friends more than a medicine. > > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. > The > only > > >  thing I can > > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > > >  attempts were > > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all > accounts > I > > >  should be dead. If > > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > > >  not be from > > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, > but > > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you > from > > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > > take care > > > love > > > B > > > > — > > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > > Berty

Response:

> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years..

not true!!! I had one three days ago! I have to say, maybe efexor is helping me to have back a normal sex life. B

Response:

> Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- > one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another > bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since > it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the > symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might

know…)…. I am sorry, I am not a bipolar person so I can’t answer you. I am just a chronical depressed – …- The important thing is that you found the right medication, I am still researching the best love B

Response:

> I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

You are boring B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

This is what is happening to me. I think that it works B

Response:

> I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. > And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

I agree with you, Dobei, I find Efexor good. I use to be on surmontil for a year and it didn’t do anything at all for my depression. B

Response:

Hi I am new to this group, just got on it yesterday, and I hope some- one responds to my posts.  I’ve never actually even talked to another bipolar person believe it or not because I’ve been such a homebody since it started screwing everything up around age 20 (well I’ve had the symptoms all my life but when you hit the real world….you might know…) Anyway I just want to say that I am allergic to all those SSRIs too.  I posted this yesterday.  They all make me feel much, much worse.  Zoloft led to my only overdose (no one pumped my stomach because I didn’t tell anyone it was a strange 3 days.)   Did you all know that suicide is listed as an effect of these drugs? You can read it on many websites and even in the small print on the folded pamphlet included with your Dr’s samples of the drug.  I also read the pamphlet on Zyprexa, and it says suicide can be a rare effect of that too. I know Zyprexa has antihistamine in it, the same thing that makes you tired in benadryl or sleeping pills, and antihistamine also makes me very depressed. I have noticed the little tendancies on the few occasions I was on Zyprex for it being impossible to sleep. They don’t warn you.  I noticed SSRIs are the first thing slapped down as Rx EVERY TIME I’ve seen a different doctor.  thankfully now I have one and we have found the right medications.  Without them I feel like killing myself too. Though I would never do it.  I know its stupid to do.  But it still sucks when life feels so bad you just want to die all the time, except from September to March.  I have a breakdown every year when it turns from hot to cold or back, like clockwork.  anyone else have that?  I always go in the hospital.   I asked this yesterday too.  Don’t bipolars have Excess serotonin, anyway? Why do they put us on ssris, then? I also read some theory that decreasing serotonin is the way out of depresion, that paxil etc works by bombarding receptors to make them less sensitive to serotonin.  that would make sense.   just what is really chemically different about the bipolar brain?  does anyone know?  I only get 30 minutes with my dr and dont’ see a shrink.  I have many questions and have done a lot of reading.  I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to fix it too.  the doctors only have half the info, and we have the other half.  they don’t have the delusions, mania, and depression.  they dont take the Rxs they prescribe.  They only know half. We should pool our info so we can get out of this predicament. I hate it. Love yall, someone please write to me.

Response:

Hehe, actually, effexor has given me MORE INTENSE orgasms No problems with orgasms or getting my dick up. I’m 22 years old and I’ve been on effexor for about 7 months I think. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yes but you have not had an orgasim in three years.. >I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. >And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone. >> well stop xposting to asdt! >> > > EFEXOR >> > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for >> > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >> > >  effects. >> > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months >on >> the >> > >  drug, I stuck a >> > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I >would >> not >> > >  wake up and get >> > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home >> dejected >> > > and angry. >> > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that >maybe >> > > your problem is deeper . >> > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you >need >> > > friends more than a medicine. >> > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. >> > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, >> > > whith efexor you sleep a lot >> > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and >> > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. >> > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. >> Dont >> > > blame any medicine or whatever… >> > > I feel fantastic, in control and >> > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. >The >> only >> > >  thing I can >> > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My >> suicide >> > >  attempts were >> > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all >accounts >> I >> > >  should be dead. If >> > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it >> would >> > >  not be from >> > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. >> > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I >> exist >> > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, >but >> > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you >from >> > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting >> > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. >> > > take care >> > > love >> > > B >> > > > — >> > > > Psychiatry is to Science >> > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy >> > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups >> > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. >> > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? >> > Berty > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

well stop xposting to asdt!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > > — > > Psychiatry is to Science > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

I’m on effexor with no side effects whatsoever. And no suicideal thoughts. And I have a better relationship to my friends. My depression is gone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> well stop xposting to asdt! > > EFEXOR > >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > > > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side > >  effects. > > > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on > the > >  drug, I stuck a > > > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would > not > >  wake up and get > > > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home > dejected > > and angry. > > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > > your problem is deeper . > > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > > friends more than a medicine. > > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > > > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > > whith efexor you sleep a lot > > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > > > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. > Dont > > blame any medicine or whatever… > > I feel fantastic, in control and > > > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The > only > >  thing I can > > > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My > suicide > >  attempts were > > > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts > I > >  should be dead. If > > > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it > would > >  not be from > > > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I > exist > > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > > take care > > love > > B > > > — > > > Psychiatry is to Science > > > as Astrology is to Astronomy > I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups > was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. > Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? > Berty

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > EFEXOR >  In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side >  effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the >  drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not >  wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected > and angry. > Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe > your problem is deeper . > You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need > friends more than a medicine. > Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night, > whith efexor you sleep a lot > Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life. > I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont > blame any medicine or whatever… > I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only >  thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide >  attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I >  should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would >  not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor. > I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist > and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but > remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from > death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting > suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. > take care > love > B > — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

EFEXOR   In September my doctor put me on Effexor 75mg for > depression, which started me on a downward spiral with hideous side effects. > Anybody who says Effexor is not dangerous is lying. After 2 months on the drug, I stuck a > hose to my exhaust pipe of my car, took 2 sleeping tablets so I would not wake up and get > out, and went to sleep. EIGHT hours later I awoke, and drove home dejected

and angry. Maybe Efexor is not enough for your problrm, you should think that maybe your problem is deeper . You should try to try something more, and anyway ,I think that you need friends more than a medicine. Efexor is a soft medicine, maybe you need something heavier. > I was sleeping approx 4 hours per night,

whith efexor you sleep a lot Fast-forward to now 6 weeks later, and > I truly believe Effexor gave me the urge to take my life.

I dont believe it. If you wanted to take your life, it was up to you. Dont blame any medicine or whatever… I feel fantastic, in control and > nearly normal. I no longer plot my death or have the urge to cut. The only thing I can > thank Effexor for is sorting out my true friends in this world. My suicide attempts were > very serious ones, not telling anybody beforehand and by all accounts I should be dead. If > it were not for unleaded petrol, I would be. The difference is, it would not be from > suicide, it would have been from Effexor.

I think that your suicide attempts were just flames, a way to say: I exist and I need help. good for you. I am happy that you are still alive, but remember that maybe the next time there will be nobody to save you from death, and please think about all the people who are really commiting suicide, leaving their families and friends in grief. take care love B – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Psychiatry is to Science > as Astrology is to Astronomy

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Very funny headers.  Not a good impersonation though. >How about a rap song about anti-med ho’s? > Smoke some crack and sing along: > Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Effexor…what be dis shiitte? > Be it fo depression? > No siree, not accordin to dem anti-med ho’s > Dese SSRI drugz make yo dick rot off and give you crabs, according to > dese anti-med ho’s > But I sez No wait, deze meds save my life!!! > Not accordin to dem anti-med ho’s > Accordin to deze anti-med ho’s, deze meds  be evil > Accordin to deze anti-med ho’s, deze meds make you fat > Deze meds give yo brain damage > Deze meds give yo da shits > Deze meds make yo dick go limp > Deze meds be worse than crack cocaine, accordin to da anti-med ho’s > Which be worse? Crack or SSRIs? > Accordin to dem anti-med ho’s, SSRIs be worse. > So light up dat crackpipe and smoke yo a rock fo depression, > Because accordin to dem anti-med ho’s SSRIs give yo brain damage > Crack be safer thing to smoke, accordin to dem anti-med ho’s > I dont know who be telling da truth. > Dem anti-med ho’s or  dem BTDT people, > But I be knowin that SSRIs save my life, > So I be thinkin dat deze anti-med  ho’s be full of shit > I  be thinkin dat deze anti-med ho’s be workin fo Rob Hubbard" > I be thinkin dat deze anti-med ho’s never  has da shit befo…and be > talkin a > bunch of shiitte > Deze anti-med ho’s smoked too much crack > They be  nothin but a bunch of scientology sluts > Fuckin the master man, Ron Hubbard > Tick tock, tick tock > What be up, bitch?

Well, Eric, you have experience in writing don’t you; in my more paranoid moments, which are becoming more frequent with every usenet day, I would say that if I were a sly drug company PR man, I would hire somebody like you, and give the scientology ho’s some real competition. The problem is, both sides can be legally represented with equally convincing arguments. Squiggles — Truth has become a commodity.              - Squiggles

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Very funny headers.  Not a good impersonation though. >How about a rap song about anti-med ho’s? > Smoke some crack and sing along: > Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Effexor…what be dis shiitte? > Be it fo depression? > No siree, not accordin to dem anti-med ho’s > Dese SSRI drugz make yo dick rot off and give you crabs, according to > dese anti-med ho’s > But I sez No wait, deze meds save my life!!! > Not accordin to dem anti-med ho’s > Accordin to deze anti-med ho’s, deze meds  be evil > Accordin to deze anti-med ho’s, deze meds make you fat > Deze meds give yo brain damage > Deze meds give yo da shits > Deze meds make yo dick go limp > Deze meds be worse than crack cocaine, accordin to da anti-med ho’s > Which be worse? Crack or SSRIs? > Accordin to dem anti-med ho’s, SSRIs be worse. > So light up dat crackpipe and smoke yo a rock fo depression, > Because accordin to dem anti-med ho’s SSRIs give yo brain damage > Crack be safer thing to smoke, accordin to dem anti-med ho’s > I dont know who be telling da truth. > Dem anti-med ho’s or  dem BTDT people, > But I be knowin that SSRIs save my life, > So I be thinkin dat deze anti-med  ho’s be full of shit > I  be thinkin dat deze anti-med ho’s be workin fo Rob Hubbard" > I be thinkin dat deze anti-med ho’s never  has da shit befo…and be > talkin a > bunch of shiitte > Deze anti-med ho’s smoked too much crack > They be  nothin but a bunch of scientology sluts > Fuckin the master man, Ron Hubbard > Tick tock, tick tock > What be up, bitch?

Eric? Carrie

Response:

>Well, Eric, you have experience in writing don’t you; >in my more paranoid moments, which are becoming more >frequent with every usenet day, I would say that if I >were a sly drug company PR man, I would hire somebody >like you, and give the scientology ho’s some real competition. >The problem is, both sides can be legally represented with >equally convincing arguments.

Is he looking for work?

Response:

Question:

>However the bad thing is that the cogentin is extremely sedating >and makes me get out of breath faster,

So much for wanking it at porn sites.

Response:

>Who has heard of adding anti-cholinergics like Cogentin to their SSRIs to get >them to activate decently again?

You’re the usenut Pdoc – tell us!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ive been taking the anti-parkinsons/EPS drug Cogentin for the past week. I find > its quite sedating. It has gotten rid of all tight muscle related problems Ive > been having. I didnt like it until today. Today I realized suddenly, > unexpectely I began getting that old familiar "SSRI activation" real strongly. > Like when my SSRIs used to activate good. Took me by total surprise. Starting > to get nausea too, like when SSRIs used to activate good for me and give me > nausea, akathisia, dizziness, anxiety, etc. the first two weeks. > Who has heard of adding anti-cholinergics like Cogentin to their SSRIs to get > them to activate decently again? I cant believe this, this has totally take me > by surprised. However the bad thing is that the cogentin is extremely sedating > and makes me get out of breath faster, even though I feel relaxed.

It’s a double miracle!! First the dreaded anti-cholinergics make Eric feel better, then he recovers enough from his depression that he does not need ECT. Praise the lord, you better tithe 20% of whatever salary this miracle the lord has wrought enables you to make, Eric.  How about that, huh the lord surely do act in strange and mysterious ways, huh?

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>First the dreaded anti-cholinergics make Eric feel better, then he recovers >enough from his depression that he does not need ECT.

Gee – I see you were as surprised as myself. Cogentin is the answer!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks Peter, I actually dont have that many side effects  with the ACE. Its > kind of hard to describe, its  just that the ACE interferes with the Luvox. I > seriously doubt Id have any better luck with another blood pressure pill. Its a > hard to explain problem. I think what I am going to have to do is add some low > dose atypial anti-psychotic to get the SSRI fully activated, then perhaps throw > in an anticonvulsant on top of it all to help get rid of the "numbess."

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YEAAAAAAAAA!! i am rejoicing with you!! cal

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>Zoloft. Stopped taking the Cogentin cause it was revving my BP up, guess it was >those anti-cholinergic side effects.

BP no doubt meaning Bipolar after the manic posting of wav files. Is the shock jock still on? Why waste 3 years talking about it – you could have had relief 3 years ago! Attention seeker?

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Question:

i heard this on a movie one time.  does this really help some people, or is it bullshit?  i had side effects which included severe panic attacks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->i heard this on a movie one time.  does this really help some people, or is >it >bullshit?  i had side effects which included severe panic attacks. >If youre having panic attacks from meds your Pdoc needs to know that. One >thing >you should know in case you are taking SSRIs by any chance is that SSRIs can >worsen anxiety in panic prone individuals during the first couple weeks. Then >the anti-panic effect of the SSRIs kicks in usually and you start feeling >relaxed. >Many times Pdocs will prescribe a benzo to help you get thru the first couple >weeks of an SSRI, like Klonopin. >Eric >Basic course in logic 101: >Psychiatry is bullshit…psychiatrists are full of shit

Eric no offense pal, but are you really that nice, or really that stupid? Either way, I pray for you my friend.  But honestly, no offense, did those ECT procedures work for the best?  I believe that post, made by MaryPoppedCherry (which is a hint right there) was just a JOKE.  Common sense will take you a long way, but hell, maybe I should try those ECT’s, maybe just shocking the common sense out of me would be a better way of living.  I guess i’d rather be dumb and happy than to be living in this stresszone.

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>ome people are labeled NICE because their STUPID

some people are labeled nice because THEIR stupid?  Umm try THEY’RE! practice what you preech! LMFAO Jason

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ome people are labeled NICE because their STUPID >some people are labeled nice because THEIR stupid?  Umm try THEY’RE! >practice what you preech! >LMFAO >Jason

sue me, i hated english and literature!  ohhhhh let me put more time in my usenet postings, pull out my dictionary and spell checker and make sure my posts are very articulate.   there, they’re out now!  oops, i just found a problem Jason, my dictionary says that there isn’t a definition for PREECH. Also, learn how to highlight text why don’t ya! ps:  practice what you PREACH

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> sue me, i hated english and literature!  ohhhhh let me put more time in my > usenet postings, pull out my dictionary and spell checker and make sure my > posts are very articulate.   > there, they’re out now!  oops, i just found a problem Jason, my dictionary says > that there isn’t a definition for PREECH. > Also, learn how to highlight text why don’t ya! > ps:  practice what you PREACH

Uummm…..he spelled it "preech" on purpose lmao! — Amelia

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>Many times Pdocs will prescribe a benzo to help you get thru the first couple >weeks of an SSRI, like Klonopin.

Bullshit, drug pusher, prove it.

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>maybe I should try those ECT’s, maybe just shocking the >common sense out of me would be a better way of living.

No, it popular in NC though.

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>Eric no offense pal, but are you really that nice, or really that stupid?

Stupid

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>Uummm…..he spelled it "preech" on purpose lmao!

Mind reader?

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>If youre having panic attacks from meds your Pdoc needs to know that.

A sign meds are fucked up.

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>sue me, i hated english and literature!  ohhhhh let me put more time in my >usenet postings, pull out my dictionary and spell checker and make sure my >posts are very articulate.  

Eric?

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>Many times Pdocs will prescribe a benzo to help you get thru the first couple >weeks of an SSRI, like Klonopin.

Squiggles?

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>SSRIs by any chance is that SSRIs can >worsen anxiety in panic prone individuals during the first couple weeks.

They can worsen panic PERIOD.

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> >Uummm…..he spelled it "preech" on purpose lmao! > Mind reader?

Yea. Why do you ask? — Amelia

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> >> Mind reader? >Yea. >Why do you ask? > If you are a mind reader, why are you asking? LOL

I slipped. Back on track now though. Damn. — Amelia

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Question:

> I think the poster whose been posting how smart people buy drug > company stock, and dumb people buy drug company products, summarized > the reality of the situation.

– Smart perhaps, but it would really sour my husband;s moral sentiments, and mine too – I don’t think we could ever do something as nefarious (tx Eric) as that; Squiggles

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you think doctors, nurses or medical staff > have had experience with drugs like SSRIs and Benzos? > Do you think they can empathize or inform the common > patient about them, from first hand experience? > I would love to get a site where peope who are > "the inner circle" could share their valuable and > informed experiences; I just don’t find much from > this source, e.g. sci.med.pharmacy; > Squiggles > Squiggles, > Universities have lectures open to the public, by experts on the > topics near and dear to our hearts. > One of my posts bout how SRI’s trigger a chemical lobotomy of the > frontal lobes…incited one reader to attend a lecture  at the > University of michigan..(where the expert agreed, and demonstrated > with neuroimaging…it actually occurring) > Here is the UNIV of Michigans website..offering that lecture.. > http://www.med.umich.edu/psych/resed/rounds/archive.htm > Do you have a UNiversity nearby?  If so call or, surf the net to see > if they offer similiar lectures.. bout topics you are interested in.

Good idea; Actually my husband and I were going to attend some Psychiatry lectures at McGill  - open to the public on affective disorders – it looked great – couldn’t go on the date. What I am trying to stress, is not the lack of public knowledge Linda, but rather the lack of cooperation between the public and the drug companies especially; I am well aware of the availability of libraries and university forums. Squiggles — Truth has become a commodity.              - Squiggles

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I was just thinking what a neat idea it might be to request the pharmaceuticals to offer classes on medications or seminars for the patient and or doctors. — Truth has become a commodity.              - Squiggles

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>I was just thinking what a neat idea it might be to >request the pharmaceuticals to offer classes on >medications or seminars for the patient and or doctors.

They do for doctors, usually at very nice locations, in expensive hotels or resorts, and end with the line "Now get out there and prescribe our drug!"

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> They do for doctors, usually at very nice locations, in expensive > hotels or resorts, and end with the line "Now get out there and > prescribe our drug!"

- I give up.

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says… > Do you think doctors, nurses or medical staff > have had experience with drugs like SSRIs and Benzos? > Do you think they can empathize or inform the common > patient about them, from first hand experience? > I would love to get a site where peope who are > "the inner circle" could share their valuable and > informed experiences; I just don’t find much from > this source, e.g. sci.med.pharmacy; > Squiggles

My Dr reads straight off the package insert when he "explains" about drugs. He also told me that never under any circumstances can you increase a Prozac dose above 20 mg/day. I’ve found loads more information/facts/experiences through newsgroups and the web. — Amelia Leave out ‘TheJunk’ before replying

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>My Dr reads straight off the package insert when he "explains" about >drugs. He also told me that never under any circumstances can you >increase a Prozac dose above 20 mg/day. I’ve found loads more >information/facts/experiences through newsgroups and the web.

Can your doctor actually read that thing in under 45 minutes?

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Do you think doctors, nurses or medical staff have had experience with drugs like SSRIs and Benzos? Do you think they can empathize or inform the common patient about them, from first hand experience? I would love to get a site where peope who are "the inner circle" could share their valuable and informed experiences; I just don’t find much from this source, e.g. sci.med.pharmacy; Squiggles

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Question:

> All the good treatments get rejected. What we are left with is halfassed SSRIs. > Makes me disgusted. > Eric

I totally agree. On Esquire, February issue, there is a whole page advertisement of Paxil. A public add for a psychotropic substance? What kind of shit is this? Why doesn’t US ban it? It says that millions suffer from chronic anxiety, and gives the symptoms: Fatigue, irritability, sleep problems, restlessness, etc. etc. So GSK wants US citizens to self-diagnose themselves, go to a psychiatrist and ask him/her to prescribe Paxil! That’s wonderful! cem

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I totally agree. On Esquire, February issue, there is a whole page >advertisement of Paxil. A public add for a psychotropic substance? What kind >of shit is this? Why doesn’t US ban it? It says that millions suffer from >chronic anxiety, and gives the symptoms: Fatigue, irritability, sleep >problems, restlessness, etc. etc. >So GSK wants US citizens to self-diagnose themselves, go to a psychiatrist >and ask him/her to prescribe Paxil! That’s wonderful! >cem > why dont you go fuck yourself? Paxil is a great drug. > Eric

If one was a stockholder in GSK I would agree with Eric, however the point raised in this post, a point which seems to be well over the head of our poor lost boy is that advertising of drugs might not be the best way to deal with health issues.  By selling a little pill for every problem the doctor patient relationship is replaced by the consumer drug company relationship. Naturally for anti psychiatry activists like Eric that is a quite acceptable outcome.

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Dear Eric, You miss the point, as always! It is not the point if Paxil is a good drug or not! It is the public advertisement of a drug I oppose here. …and for the "go fuck yourself" business, all I have to say is, you have serious personality problems, and you have revealed them here on the Usenet for quite a long time. I suggest, you go and get some help!… cem

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I totally agree. On Esquire, February issue, there is a whole page >advertisement of Paxil. A public add for a psychotropic substance? What kind >of shit is this? Why doesn’t US ban it? It says that millions suffer from >chronic anxiety, and gives the symptoms: Fatigue, irritability, sleep >problems, restlessness, etc. etc. >So GSK wants US citizens to self-diagnose themselves, go to a psychiatrist >and ask him/her to prescribe Paxil! That’s wonderful! >cem > why dont you go fuck yourself? Paxil is a great drug. > Eric > Maneuver warfare is a warfighting philosophy that seeks to shatter the enemy’s > cohesion through a variety of rapid, focused, and unexpected actions which > create a turbulent and rapidly deteriorating situation with which the enemy > cannot cope.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dear Eric, >You miss the point, as always! >It is not the point if Paxil is a good drug or not! It is the public >advertisement of a drug I oppose here. >…and for the "go fuck yourself" business, all I have to say is, you have >serious personality problems, and you have revealed them here on the Usenet >for quite a long time. I suggest, you go and get some help!… > There is big money in psychotropic drug advertisements. The costs are > nothing compared to the benefits to the drug companies of someone > suggesting that med, and the years of income it will bring them. > Advertising specific medications and medications in general is a > shameless act which can possibly harm people. I’m surprised someone > who thinks they are insane because psychiatry made them that way would > object.

It is amazing how I can find no points of agreement with you in one post, and agree with you by and large in another. No.Spam, you are a interesting study in contradictions

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I totally agree. On Esquire, February issue, there is a whole page > >advertisement of Paxil. A public add for a psychotropic substance? What >  kind > >of shit is this? Why doesn’t US ban it? It says that millions suffer from > >chronic anxiety, and gives the symptoms: Fatigue, irritability, sleep > >problems, restlessness, etc. etc. > >So GSK wants US citizens to self-diagnose themselves, go to a >  psychiatrist > >and ask him/her to prescribe Paxil! That’s wonderful! > >cem > why dont you go fuck yourself? Paxil is a great drug. > Eric > If one was a stockholder in GSK I would agree with Eric, however the point > raised in this post, a point which seems to be well over the head of our > poor lost boy is that advertising of drugs might not be the best way to deal > with health issues.  By selling a little pill for every problem the doctor > patient relationship is replaced by the consumer drug company relationship. > Naturally for anti psychiatry activists like Eric that is a quite acceptable > outcome.

whats wrong with this business couldn`t the fuckers just approve it I mean just for the feeling that somethings good is going to happen

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–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Dear Eric, > >You miss the point, as always! > >It is not the point if Paxil is a good drug or not! It is the public > >advertisement of a drug I oppose here. > >…and for the "go fuck yourself" business, all I have to say is, you > have > >serious personality problems, and you have revealed them here on the > Usenet > >for quite a long time. I suggest, you go and get some help!… > There is big money in psychotropic drug advertisements. The costs are > nothing compared to the benefits to the drug companies of someone > suggesting that med, and the years of income it will bring them. > Advertising specific medications and medications in general is a > shameless act which can possibly harm people. I’m surprised someone > who thinks they are insane because psychiatry made them that way would > object. > It is amazing how I can find no points of agreement with you in one post, > and agree with you by and large in another. > No.Spam, you are a interesting study in contradictions

one day maybe intelligent mutifaceted personalities will be able to come out of the closet.. till then we have….. did you ever see the movie or read the book "King Rat" ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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