SSRIs

Question:

For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could this be related to going off the neurontin? Michele

Response:

Heya, Michelle,     Yeah, definitely. It’s not a good thing to do, at all. I understand you were kinda forced to, but you coulda had a major seizure.      Not chewing you out, ‘cuz I went off prednisone all at once myself, due to non-stop bleeding. Another no-no. I knew I was risking having a psychotic episode, but I figured who could tell? I also risked having my adrenals fail. Shame on us both, huh?      The neurontin’s working well for me and I’m aware it’s one of the ones to titer down from. Hope you’re aware of that now, too. Whoops! Hugs from Rosie — "If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."  – Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a > day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken > the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it > until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, > feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could > this be related to going off the neurontin? > Michele

Response:

>For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a >day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken >the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it >until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, >feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could >this be related to going off the neurontin? >Michele

I had mood problems when I went off Neurontin (rage mostly), so my personal response is yes it "could" be related.  I’ve seen others post of mood disturbances when coming off too, though most don’t seem to have the problem. – Jen

Response:

From what I’ve experienced (myself and with my kids),  about all of the neurologic (including psychiatric) medications should not be discontinued suddenly. Interesting note.  About a year ago, I had to take an antibiotic for a week or so that looked kind of like the Prozac that I take daily.  For two days, I didn’t realize that I wasn’t taking my dose of prozac in the morning with my other meds. (I’d look in my hand, see the green and white pill and I figured that I was okay, still not awake enough to realize that it was the antibiotic, not the prozac.)  I got pretty depressed after just two days, then at night after those days, as I was taking the antibiotic I realized that I’d missed the prozac.  This wasn’t a placebo affect thing – I didn’t know that I wasn’t taking it – but I did notice that I was really down.  I hurried and took my prozac and haven’t missed a day since. I talked to my psychiatrist and told him of the event.  Researchers have noticed a change in mood with just one day being missed of the SSRIs like Prozac.  Kind of wild – it takes 4-6 weeks to work, but the small change in blood level from just one day being missed. To me it was just more evidence of my body’s need for the medicine. Depression is a physical illness. Sorry for rambling.  Be careful with the meds.  We’ve all done what you have done.  (I did it with blood pressure medicine when first married – wanted to wait until payday.  My wife got pretty upset with me – I guess she wanted me to stick around.) Sorry to ramble. Martin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a > day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken > the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it > until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, > feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could > this be related to going off the neurontin? > Michele

Response:

>For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a >day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken >the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it >until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, >feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could >this be related to going off the neurontin? >Michele

It certainly could have been the neurontin Michele.  Neurontin is one of those medicines a person should not stop taking all at once.  I know you couldn’t help it this time. Neurontin should be tapered slowly to withdraw from.  I guess the worst thing it can cause is seizures.  Seems rather odd since it is an anti-seizure medicine huh? I take 600mg of neurontin 2 x’s a day and then 900mg at bedtime.  My doctor rx’d 900mg 3 times a day, but I couldn’t handle feeling sleepy without being able to sleep, so I talked with him and we changed it to the 600mg and 900 mg. Still get sleepy during the day, but with my weird sleeping habits any more, it doesn’t really matter. Sue We survive together or not at all.

Response:

I think that the big seizure risk for many of these medicines in ceasing them is because they are used  by people with epilepsy to control seizures. Without the seizure control medication, there is nothing to control the epilepsy, therefore the risk of seizures becomes higher. Some medications (such as Klonopin – aka clonazepam – benzodiazapine used for anxiety but also for seizures) will cause anybody seizures if stopped suddenly after being used for awhile. Key is to not run out of the medicine and to not cease it without medical supervision.  (I’m not being judgemental – I certainly have done that before!!  In a perfect world the medical supervision would be available without judgement and the financial worries wouldn’t exist.)  Same holds true for the long term pain meds – but how many of us have been left stranded by our docs – but that is a different subject. Martin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a >day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken >the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it >until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, >feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could >this be related to going off the neurontin? >Michele > It certainly could have been the neurontin Michele.  Neurontin is one of those > medicines a person should not stop taking all at once.  I know you couldn’t > help it this time. > Neurontin should be tapered slowly to withdraw from.  I guess the worst thing > it can cause is seizures.  Seems rather odd since it is an anti-seizure > medicine huh? > I take 600mg of neurontin 2 x’s a day and then 900mg at bedtime.  My doctor > rx’d 900mg 3 times a day, but I couldn’t handle feeling sleepy without being > able to sleep, so I talked with him and we changed it to the 600mg and 900 mg. > Still get sleepy during the day, but with my weird sleeping habits any more, it > doesn’t really matter. > Sue > We survive together or not at all.

Response:

>I think that the big seizure risk for many of these medicines in ceasing >them is because they are used  by people with epilepsy to control seizures. >Without the seizure control

Actually it is simpler than that….these meds "lower the seizure threshold"…ie makes it "easier" for one to have a seizure …don’t ask me the mechanism..cuz I surely don’t understand it either!!!  So once your brain gets "used to" these anti seizure meds (even if you were never prone to seizures)…if you stop abruptly…boom..you may well have a seizure!!!  so the gradual taper is the way to avoid..hopefully the risk of having seizure!!! phew…talk about creating a problem where one never existed!! rb Hawki

Response:

I can not take prozac.  It makes me paranoid.  Man I thought my world was coming to an end.  I thought I was faking my pain and everything.  I thought I was going to jail. I was confessing I was faking everything.  I was plain an simple not faking at all.  I started throwing up come to find out my gallbladder needed to be removed.  They put me in the hospital because I was dehydrated.  I could not remember to ask the doc for my prozac.  When I did the nurse’s would say they would call him.  On the 3rd day my paranoia started to let up.  Now they will not give me any AD drugs in fear it will bring it on again.  To some it is a God sent drug to some it is a suicide drug.  I truly can see why it got the bad publicity it did when it first came out.  I used to think it was a great pill.  If you ever start feeling paranoid talk to your doc immediately PLEASE.  I mean drive as fast as u can to the doctor or ER.  It is one bad drug for me.  I took that drug for years and felt great.  Then all of sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks.  It was not a pleasant experience. Bonner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From what I’ve experienced (myself and with my kids),  about all of the > neurologic (including psychiatric) medications should not be discontinued > suddenly. > Interesting note.  About a year ago, I had to take an antibiotic for a week > or so that looked kind of like the Prozac that I take daily.  For two days, > I didn’t realize that I wasn’t taking my dose of prozac in the morning with > my other meds. (I’d look in my hand, see the green and white pill and I > figured that I was okay, still not awake enough to realize that it was the > antibiotic, not the prozac.)  I got pretty depressed after just two days, > then at night after those days, as I was taking the antibiotic I realized > that I’d missed the prozac.  This wasn’t a placebo affect thing – I didn’t > know that I wasn’t taking it – but I did notice that I was really down.  I > hurried and took my prozac and haven’t missed a day since. > I talked to my psychiatrist and told him of the event.  Researchers have > noticed a change in mood with just one day being missed of the SSRIs like > Prozac.  Kind of wild – it takes 4-6 weeks to work, but the small change in > blood level from just one day being missed. > To me it was just more evidence of my body’s need for the medicine. > Depression is a physical illness. > Sorry for rambling.  Be careful with the meds.  We’ve all done what you have > done.  (I did it with blood pressure medicine when first married – wanted to > wait until payday.  My wife got pretty upset with me – I guess she wanted me > to stick around.) > Sorry to ramble. > Martin > For the past 3 months I’ve been taking 300 mg of neurontin twice a > day, to help with pain related to a compressed nerve. I haven’t taken > the neurontin over the past 4 days- scrip ran out and I didn’t fill it > until today. Over the weekend, I had some terrible crying jags, > feelings of anxiety (I’m on elavil for depression), jitteriness. Could > this be related to going off the neurontin? > Michele

Response:

Question:

Jen, I hope you’re feeling better! I held onto Ultram and took one about 6 months later. Exactly the same itchiness, rashes, dizziness and extreme nausea appeared after just one and I didn’t feel right for a couple of days, so be cautious with trying it later since you reacted badly to it. In my case it didn’t work that well anyway, so the risk/benefit ratio wasn’t worth it for me, but if it works well for you, maybe the side effects are worth it … . I too find it difficult to find meds that work and don’t cause me intolerable side effects. I hope you find a painkiller that works and doesn’t make you feel awful Keep your chin up! Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thank you, Jay, and everyone else who replied.  I think my response to > Ultracet (Ultram) was quite similar to yours.  After about a week my > body simply rejected the stuff (this has happened to me before – side > effects worsen until I can’t tolerate the med any longer, rather than > acclimating to it).  Then, when I stopped it, I had one day of the bad > reaction to the drug, followed by a few days of – I don’t know, I > guess it still being in my system or getting out or withdrawaing  - > got me.  I was ill for a few days, none as bad as the first.  And what > makes me think serotonin was implicated is I had radical mood swings > and terrible nightmares over those few days.  No energy, so lots of > sleep and lots of nightmares.  One days I was depressed and suicidal, > the next day I was irritated and anxious, and at times I felt > everything was absolutely fine.  I developed a rash one night that I > think was more anxiety than drug related, but as soon as I saw it I > freaked, which made it worse. > I was also extremely thirsty, my body telling me to flush out  the > med, I’m assuming. > Thank you for telling me your story.  It helped me understand. > Btw, the med worked wonders on my pain and I’ll hold onto it for an > as-needed crisis.  Perhaps not being on a regular dose it will be > tolerable.  Only time and my readiness to try will tell, though. > It’s extremely hard for me to find medications I can tolerate – > everything from antibiotics to antidepressants.  Bummer, having so > many medical problems and all… but, life is unfair I suppose.  I do > what I can. > Thanks again.  I wanted to check in a respond since everyone was so > kind in taking the time to answer my questions. > Jen

Response:

Thanks so much for the reply.  I was actually on Ultracet, not Ultram – which shows where my head is – but I guess the acetominphen isn’t the issue anyway. I have absolutely terrible reactions to SSRIs so your story actually sounds like me.  I think after my first dose yesterday (one week into it) I felt my body just reject the stuff – too much med.  I stopped it (Ultracet).  Couldn’t get out of bed the rest of the day.  Took a shower late afternoon, got so tired, fell into bed shaking. Today, still extremely tired, sweaty, brain fuzz, plus whatever I mentioned below.  Feels like how people describe the flu I guess. I’m glad to hear it passed quickly for you.  I’m very sensitive to meds and I’m so sick of feeling sick!  I really am. Thanks again.  Hope I’m making sense Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >As far as I know, Celebrex doesn’t cause dependency (it’s a COX-2 >inhibitor). One week on Ultram 3 tab a day sounds too short of cause >dependency too. >However I know that Ultram can cause some very weird reactions if you stop >it suddenly. I became allergic to it suddenly after taking it for a couple >of weeks and when I stopped it abruptly because of it, I had uncommanded >limb movements which was quite scary, then lost memory for the rest of the >night. It only lasted a day, but it was very unpleasant. According to my >husband, ER doctor said that he’d seen it many times in people suddenly >stopping Ultram (I don’t remember anything that happened in ER). I remember >reading that it’s supposedly due to it affecting the serotonin level, but I >might have got that wrong. I was really tired for about a week afterwards. > don’t see my first post yet but I forgot to mention this major > headache and nausea, bad stomach.  More probably.  Nauseous exhausted > jittery.  Did my first post come through? > Question was after a year and half on 400 mgs celebrex a day stop cold > turkey do you get withdrawal. > Or one week on Ultram 3 tabs a day, do you get withddrawal? > Feverish too. > Feels like drugs.

Response:

Sometmes we never make sense… Dont worry … Ronnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks so much for the reply.  I was actually on Ultracet, not Ultram > – which shows where my head is – but I guess the acetominphen isn’t > the issue anyway. > I have absolutely terrible reactions to SSRIs so your story actually > sounds like me.  I think after my first dose yesterday (one week into > it) I felt my body just reject the stuff – too much med.  I stopped it > (Ultracet).  Couldn’t get out of bed the rest of the day.  Took a > shower late afternoon, got so tired, fell into bed shaking. > Today, still extremely tired, sweaty, brain fuzz, plus whatever I > mentioned below.  Feels like how people describe the flu I guess. > I’m glad to hear it passed quickly for you.  I’m very sensitive to > meds and I’m so sick of feeling sick!  I really am. > Thanks again.  Hope I’m making sense > Jen >As far as I know, Celebrex doesn’t cause dependency (it’s a COX-2 >inhibitor). One week on Ultram 3 tab a day sounds too short of cause >dependency too. >However I know that Ultram can cause some very weird reactions if you stop >it suddenly. I became allergic to it suddenly after taking it for a couple >of weeks and when I stopped it abruptly because of it, I had uncommanded >limb movements which was quite scary, then lost memory for the rest of the >night. It only lasted a day, but it was very unpleasant. According to my >husband, ER doctor said that he’d seen it many times in people suddenly >stopping Ultram (I don’t remember anything that happened in ER). I remember >reading that it’s supposedly due to it affecting the serotonin level, but I >might have got that wrong. I was really tired for about a week afterwards. >> don’t see my first post yet but I forgot to mention this major >> headache and nausea, bad stomach.  More probably.  Nauseous exhausted >> jittery.  Did my first post come through? >> Question was after a year and half on 400 mgs celebrex a day stop cold >> turkey do you get withdrawal. >> Or one week on Ultram 3 tabs a day, do you get withddrawal? >> Feverish too. >> Feels like drugs.

Response:

Jen, I react badly to quite a few meds (including SSRIs) myself, so I can sympathize! I hope you’ll be feeling better very soon. (By the way, I hope you don’t have a flu as well as a reaction to meds!) Jay

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks so much for the reply.  I was actually on Ultracet, not Ultram > – which shows where my head is – but I guess the acetominphen isn’t > the issue anyway. > I have absolutely terrible reactions to SSRIs so your story actually > sounds like me.  I think after my first dose yesterday (one week into > it) I felt my body just reject the stuff – too much med.  I stopped it > (Ultracet).  Couldn’t get out of bed the rest of the day.  Took a > shower late afternoon, got so tired, fell into bed shaking. > Today, still extremely tired, sweaty, brain fuzz, plus whatever I > mentioned below.  Feels like how people describe the flu I guess. > I’m glad to hear it passed quickly for you.  I’m very sensitive to > meds and I’m so sick of feeling sick!  I really am. > Thanks again.  Hope I’m making sense > Jen

Response:

how long ago did you stop the SSRIs? They can have some pretty aggresive withdrawals and it may take a while to get through them… – Ъ

Question:

>>hope you’re doing okay too hon, glad you got the lithium sorted out >im up to 50mg lamictal now, he says thats a basic therapeutic dose so we >shall see what happens… > I’m sooooo curious..

so far so good …. no side effects….. no dramatic effect on the bipolar either, but that i think will take some time… >im only hoping it was my ssri’s and not the >lamictal that caused me to go manic this morning, im pretty convinced it >was… > Well, I hope so too..

it hasnt happened again… i think it was a manic episode thats been building up, aggravated by taking 3 ssris on an empty stomach and then getting low blood sugar from not eating (which always makes me manic)… > BTW: do you also take benzo’s to sleep? I just did, that’s why i think of > it.. > I really enyoy this posting late at night, but I think I’d better go to bed > earlier. > Stupid thing is that I was tired all evening, but around midnight, when i > wanted to go to sleep, I finally felt energy..and I enyoy that…

yeah.. i know the feeling… i stay up too late because i feel like shit during the day but feel great after midnight, and of course that winds up the BP more and more…. i take benzos very rarely for sleep – mainly cos it could easily get habit forming – but if i’ve had a really bad nightmare that leaves me having panic attack as i wake, i take one.. or sometimes if i just cant sleep and im desperate and tense.. (but usually i just turn on the laptop computer and write … > Knuffel

en een dikke knuffel terug! m~ — free the cheese!!!

Response:

"ME" wrote > Hi hi hi, > Yeah. Good to be back, good to *see* all of you. > After a few no-connection-days, I went to my boyriend, stayed there for a > week, and now I’m back home (and I took my boyfriend with me).

Kewl Say hello from me > Well, last months was a bit down, but I’m getting better and better and took > my studybooks again today.. Didn’t do much, but I’m very very happy that I > care about studying, that I try…

Aww hon that’s so great – I am so happy for you > I probably had some problems lately because my lithiumlevel was to high, but > from now on things can only get better!!!

Yeah ) > By the way: i love ansewering questions (especially because i do not have > much to say today, so answering is easier..) > How are you doing now?? (i read you were doing not so well)

Yeah… welll…. I had a ugly mixed episode and then a crash – sorta recovering from that now. At the moment I’m really tired and slow because I have a fever and a nasty cold.  But I guess I’m okay And the sun’s out Warm huggles, TK

Response:

> hey its really nice to hear things are still going so well with you and > your boyfriend … not such good news from my side, we split up 4-5 > months ago, oh well, still good friends tho

Ohhh… I’m so sorry to hear that..(((((((((((((((((((((((((m))))))))))))))))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > m – liberating cheese while waiting for my life’s work to copy itself > across the network to the desktop machine…. arggh…. i love this > computing stuff really…. (sometimes?)….. >>yeah lovely to see you back >>m~ > Thanks!!! ((((((((((((((((((((((m))))))))))))))))))))) >>>{{{{ Marie-Elise }}}}} >>>Hey it’s great to see you again!!! – so good your connection is okay now > >>>Where have you been? Did you stay with your boyfriend? >>>Any news? Wow are you? >>>Lots of questions? Do you mind? >>>Hugggggggs, >>>TK >>– >>free the cheese!!! > — > free the cheese!

Response:

>>hey its really nice to hear things are still going so well with you and >your boyfriend … not such good news from my side, we split up 4-5 >months ago, oh well, still good friends tho > Ohhh… I’m so sorry to hear > that..(((((((((((((((((((((((((m)))))))))))))))))))))))))

thanks hon… its okay now… it was pretty devastating at the time tho,   was a major part of why i had that huge depressive breakdown… but im okay now…. well, too okay, still quite high, but not buzzing like earlier! got the network going too… yay! hope you’re doing okay too hon, glad you got the lithium sorted out im up to 50mg lamictal now, he says thats a basic therapeutic dose so we shall see what happens… im only hoping it was my ssri’s and not the lamictal that caused me to go manic this morning, im pretty convinced it was… well ive been heading for a manic phase for a while, my pdoc commented on it and suggested i cut out one of my ssri tablets if i get too high… huggles m~ — free the cheese!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>hey its really nice to hear things are still going so well with you and >>your boyfriend … not such good news from my side, we split up 4-5 >>months ago, oh well, still good friends tho > Ohhh… I’m so sorry to hear > that..(((((((((((((((((((((((((m))))))))))))))))))))))))) > thanks hon… its okay now… it was pretty devastating at the time tho, >   was a major part of why i had that huge depressive breakdown… but im > okay now…. well, too okay, still quite high, but not buzzing like > earlier! got the network going too… yay! > hope you’re doing okay too hon, glad you got the lithium sorted out > im up to 50mg lamictal now, he says thats a basic therapeutic dose so we > shall see what happens…

I’m sooooo curious.. >im only hoping it was my ssri’s and not the >lamictal that caused me to go manic this morning, im pretty convinced it >was…

Well, I hope so too.. >well ive been heading for a manic phase for a while, my pdoc >commented on it and suggested i cut out one of my ssri tablets if i get > too high…

BTW: do you also take benzo’s to sleep? I just did, that’s why i think of it.. I really enyoy this posting late at night, but I think I’d better go to bed earlier. Stupid thing is that I was tired all evening, but around midnight, when i wanted to go to sleep, I finally felt energy..and I enyoy that… Knuffel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> huggles > m~ > — > free the cheese!

Response:

{{{{ Marie-Elise }}}}} Hey it’s great to see you again!!! – so good your connection is okay now Where have you been? Did you stay with your boyfriend? Any news? Wow are you? Lots of questions? Do you mind? Hugggggggs, TK

Response:

yeah lovely to see you back m~ > {{{{ Marie-Elise }}}}} > Hey it’s great to see you again!!! – so good your connection is okay now > Where have you been? Did you stay with your boyfriend? > Any news? Wow are you? > Lots of questions? Do you mind? > Hugggggggs, > TK

– free the cheese!!!

Response:

Hi hi hi, Yeah. Good to be back, good to *see* all of you. After a few no-connection-days, I went to my boyriend, stayed there for a week, and now I’m back home (and I took my boyfriend with me).. Well, last months was a bit down, but I’m getting better and better and took my studybooks again today.. Didn’t do much, but I’m very very happy that I care about studying, that I try… I probably had some problems lately because my lithiumlevel was to high, but from now on things can only get better!!! By the way: i love ansewering questions (especially because i do not have much to say today, so answering is easier..) How are you doing now?? (i read you were doing not so well) (((((((((((((((((((((((TK)))))))))))))))))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> {{{{ Marie-Elise }}}}} > Hey it’s great to see you again!!! – so good your connection is okay now > Where have you been? Did you stay with your boyfriend? > Any news? Wow are you? > Lots of questions? Do you mind? > Hugggggggs, > TK

Response:

> yeah lovely to see you back > m~

Thanks!!! ((((((((((((((((((((((m))))))))))))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> {{{{ Marie-Elise }}}}} > Hey it’s great to see you again!!! – so good your connection is okay now > Where have you been? Did you stay with your boyfriend? > Any news? Wow are you? > Lots of questions? Do you mind? > Hugggggggs, > TK > — > free the cheese!!!

Response:

hey its really nice to hear things are still going so well with you and your boyfriend … not such good news from my side, we split up 4-5 months ago, oh well, still good friends tho m – liberating cheese while waiting for my life’s work to copy itself across the network to the desktop machine…. arggh…. i love this computing stuff really…. (sometimes?)….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->yeah lovely to see you back >m~ > Thanks!!! ((((((((((((((((((((((m))))))))))))))))))))) >>{{{{ Marie-Elise }}}}} >>Hey it’s great to see you again!!! – so good your connection is okay now > >>Where have you been? Did you stay with your boyfriend? >>Any news? Wow are you? >>Lots of questions? Do you mind? >>Hugggggggs, >>TK >– >free the cheese!!!

– free the cheese!

Response:

Question:

I am on xanax & zoloft already. Today my Dr also gave me risperdal. She almost went with lithium. Does anyone know anything about risperdal?

Response:

Hi, > I am on xanax & zoloft already. Today my Dr also gave me risperdal. She > almost went with lithium. Does anyone know anything about risperdal?

Risperdal is an newer antipsychotic medication. It is used for psychotic symptoms that may accopnay a manic episode. MS are the first line treatment for people with BP illness. ADs alone have the potential of triggering mania. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!

Response:

I have been on and off Risperidal for almost 3 years. It really helps me. It’s not as sedating as the other anti-psychotics, and for me anyways, I don;t feel lke a zombie(though sometimes I’d like to).

Response:

>Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on >xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic >attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs >are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a >difference?

Zoloft is a SSRI antidepressant, but one that is (typically: YMMV) mildly sedating. It also has some effects on panic. It takes a while to take hold, therefore the Xanax. I’ve been on that combination at one time in the past.

Response:

Try the County, I don’t know which one your in, but they pay all for me and I get a fee waiver for psych. appts., therapy and meds. They rarely say no to anyone.  USUALLY!!!

Response:

Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a difference? Also, I do not work b/c of my panic attacks. I have not worked in 6yrs b/c i had a child and stayed home with him and since Aug 97 my attacks are so bad i CANNOT work. I have no insurance & do not qualify for state & fed. help because I live with my fiance. He makes little so we cannot afford ins. Someone told me to try ssi. Would they help? I have only been on meds for 3 weeks.

Response:

                    DE  DIGITALE  STAD Op 26 Feb 1999, MandMandM3 schreef: > Well, I just had a Dr appt. today and she gave me zoloft. I have also been on > xanax for 3 weeks. What will zoloft do for me? side effects? I have panic > attacks and depression but they want to work on the panic first. If both drugs > are for panic, why do i need both? How will zoloft make me feel? Will i tell a

Zoloft is an SSRI. SSRIs are useful in panic disorders. However it will take 3 to 8 weeks before benefit of SSRIs in panic disorder may be noticed. Xanax is a benzodiazepine, they are useful in panic disorders and work immediately. Because SSRIs can actually cause a slight worsening of symptoms in the beginning of therapy, your doc might have decided to give Xanax as well, so overcoming this first period will be easier, and the effects of the therapy are noted faster. Benzodiazepines are also the basis of treatment of panic disorders, and you’ve received the famous SSRI combo for panic disorder. It’s quite common, my guess is that if this proves to be not effective enough after dosage adjustments and all he will add buspirone (buspar), fenfluramine, trazodone or nefazodone. The first of those being the more likely. > difference? Also, I do not work b/c of my panic attacks. I have not worked in > 6yrs b/c i had a child and stayed home with him and since Aug 97 my attacks are > so bad i CANNOT work. I have no insurance & do not qualify for state & fed. > help because I live with my fiance. He makes little so we cannot afford ins. > Someone told me to try ssi. Would they help? I have only been on meds for 3

It might still take some weeks before the benefits of the treatment become apparent, and maybe even more if the meds need to be adjusted. Be patient, panic disorder is treatable. Taking your meds spaced over the day, and drinking no or almost no coffee can increase the effectiveness of treatment. > weeks.

GreetinX & Good Luck !        X        X       Bas p.s: There’s a newsgroup called alt.support.anxiety.panic which is on this type of disease. I consider you welcome here, but they might be able to give you more support.

Response:

Question:

Of course, the biggest problem about cross posting to so many groups is that you increase the amount of people available for mud slinging once it starts and as this very post shows, some of the posts go way off track to the original question.  I suspect this thread will run and run and run….. Regards, Andrew Austin. — NLP, Neurology, Schizophrenia:  http://www.23NLPeople.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hello, > > Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact > that > I posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. > It’s cross-posted; that’s bad enough. > Where is there a law against cross-posting? How is that "bad enough"? It’s > true that spammers and trolls often crosspost to many unrelated newsgroups. > It’s quite clear, as this guy said, that what he wrote is not spam or a > troll post, but some serious questions, and all the NGs he posted it to were > related to the topic. I don’t see anything wrong with that. What’s "bad" > about that? > > If you look at the list of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are > related to the topic. > I’m posting from a depression group, not a medication group. > Are you saying that a post about the medication Prozac, certainly one of the > major anti-depressants, is not relevant to a depression group?  Please > explain. Do you see any newsgroup he posted to, to which the topic of > "Prozac" is not relevant? Is this the first time someone discussed a > medication on the depression group? > > I don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone > reading > who could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting > to > several related newsgroups. > You’re too lazy to do any research. > Asking people to share their experiences with a medication is being "lazy"? > Somehow, I don’t get that connection. Discussion with others = laziness? > > If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. > I’ll do as I please, just as you have done. > Of course, you can do as you please. You can go stand on your head now for > an hour, if you wish. He was just making a request. Of course he cannot > force you to do anything. Is there something wrong with his making a > request, regarding how his message is replied to? > > I will probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one > you are reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might > never > see it. > You post to a NG you don’t read and you reckon you’re not a troll? > I don’t see anything in his post that has the slightest connection to being > a troll. Serious questions, related to all the newsgroups he posted to. > Nothing vaguely related to trollery in that. Trolldom has nothing to do with > what or how many newsgroups one posts to, but has to do with the content of > what is written. > > Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, > so do not reply via e-mail. > You’re such a man. Mashed email = troll. > Oh, you’re being macho now, insulting his manhood? A real man prints his > real e-mail address to his newsgroup posts, ensuring that he’ll get tons of > spam? A lot of people use fake e-mail addresses in their newsgroup posts, > including myself, as that’s the surest way to avoid spam, as spammers have > programs that "harvest" e-mail addresses from newsgroups. You sure have a > strange definition of what is a "troll". > There are plenty of real trolls on Usenet, especially on the mental health > newsgroups, people who ruin those NGs, filling them with trollery, so it’s > often hard to find the real discussions there. Trolls really wreck many > newsgroups. Better to spend your time fighting the real trolls, rather than > going after someone who starts a serious and relevant discussion. > (Actually, the e-mail address that you use here on the NG > not saying it isn’t, just that it doesn’t look like one to me. Is there a > real domain called "absinthebri.com"? If you yourself are using a fake > e-mail address (as many do on Usenet, to avoid spam and troll e-mails, > nothing wrong with it), why are you slamming him for doing the same thing?) > > Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs above in your reply. > Don’t tell people what to do. > Again, he made a request, he did not "tell you what to do". Yes Brian, you > are free to do as you wish. You are a free man. No one is "telling you what > to do". > > Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion of the issues > raised. > You post, I reply; you get what you get. You have shown Usenet no respect > whatsoever by cross-posting your troll instructions. > There is no Usenet law against cross-posting. And nothing at all trollish in > what he wrote. Again, if you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real > ones to go after. > If you are concerned about your medication see your doctor. You are > unlikely > to get medically qualified advice here (however valid the personal > experiences may be). > Of course, only one’s personal doctor can decide what medication is right > for the patient. That said, it’s understandable that people want to share > ideas, discuss experiences, etc. Otherwise, what are these medical > newsgroups for? You could say that to anyone writing to a medical newsgroup, > asking to hear about other’s experiences–"don’t write here, see your > doctor". What are newsgroups for then, IYO, if asking about other’s > experience with a condition, treatment, medication, etc. is taboo? > I think this guy (Edgar) would have been better off if he had skipped the > part at the beginning, in which he explained why he was posting his message > to several NGs.  You might have then paid more attention to what he was > writing about. (And I see another guy answered him by only quoting that > part, and then asking "What was the question?", I guess not wanting to read > farther than that.) So, by trying to explain the cross-posting at the > beginning, some people make that the issue, rather than reading farther to > see what the man was trying to discuss. He (Edgar) should have just started > with the issue, rather than starting with an apology/explanation for > cross-posting, for which there was really no need to apologize. Or, he > should have at least left that explanation to the end, rather than at the > beginning, as it seems some people couldn’t get further than that. > Brian, you seem to be in a bad mood today. There’s really no reason to take > it out on this guy, for asking about people’s experiences with a medication. > If you want to fight trolls, there are plenty of real ones out there. > I hope there are others who really give this guy (Edgar) their input into > his questions, that this discussion doesn’t degenerate into a fight about > cross-posting.

Response:

> But in > general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on > as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner?

They usually start immediately and become less after 2 weeks or so. MB

Response:

>If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem >knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for >you.

I know that I replied to you on one group only and I’d be willing to bet others did too.  Many of us feel uncomfortable posting to 10-15 ng’s.  My personal, unsolicited suggestion to you would be to check the ng’s you posted to.  You might find some valuable replies from people who really cared and took the time to write, yet didn’t cross-post. (About this one –  I don’t know what group the original poster is reading and don’t have his email address – btw, you can avoid spam and help us write to you by adding little things to your email address that would make your real address obvious to us.  I never get spam the way I’ve got my return address set up yet I do get very nice mail from people on my ng.) – Jen

Response:

> I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while > spamming 11 groups.

I guess you have an unusual definition of the word "spam". From what I understand the meaning of the word to be, in its Internet (not canned meat) usage, it refers to unsolicited e-mail ads. That is what the anti-spam fake e-mail address for newsgroup posting protects from, as the spammers get their e-mail spam lists from newsgroups. Was there any advertising in what I wrote? I was not selling Prozac, just asking questions about it, wanting to discuss it. I explained my reason for posting to several newsgroups, that all could have some relation to the topic of Prozac. Cross-posting does not equal "spam". Spam is unsolicited unwanted bulk advertising on the Internet. > Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect > profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous > positive benefits.

If we can put the argument about "what is spam" aside, since you seem knowledgeable about the medication, I have a further question about it for you. (I think I asked this in another post already (not the original one), but don’t know if you saw it.) From what I have heard and read, including from my psychiatrist, it takes a while for one to start experiencing the positive benefits of Prozac, perhaps even 4 to 6 weeks. My question is: if one is also going to experience some negative side effects of Prozac, such as those discussed, will that happen at about the same time? Will that also take weeks? Or would one experience the side effects sooner-immediately, a few days, one week? Of course, I know that medications affect each individual differently, so there is no way to give a definitive answer regarding how long it might take me to feel negative side effects of the medication, if I am going to feel any. But in general, do the side effects usually take the same length of time to come on as the intended effect, or do they usually come on sooner? Thank you for your input.

Response:

>Dave, you obviously have a strong bias against medications for psychiatric >problems.

Obvious because I’m honest? Frankly, psychiatric treatment usually isn’t any better, although CBT is a vast improvement over psychoanalysis/ECT/leeches. >I don’t know whether or not Prozac might or might not help Edgar, >and what the side effects might be like for him, I’ve never taken it myself, >but I do know that a lot of people have been significantly helped by such >medications, their lives turned around. I don’t think your standpoint >automatically against such medications is correct.

I don’t think your assumption that I’m automatically against such medications is correct either.  But it’s not the first time I’ve been accused of it. > Almost guaranteed to.  It’s pretty obvious that your immune system is > messed up, with Adderall and Prozac being stimulants, it’s not going to > help. >Prozac is an anti-depressant, not a stimulant.

No.  Prozac is a SSRI. You see, depression in DSM-IV doesn’t mean depression any more.  The criteria have tended towards the symptoms of people that Prozac might actually help. >I’ve never heard that either type has an effect on the immune system. >Show us your source for either drug affecting the immune system.

It’s common sense really.  You can start with Candace Pert’s Molecules of Emotion: "every neuropeptide receptor we could find in the brain is also on the surface of the human monocyte." > You do know that Adderall is Speed, right?  The exact same Speed that > young people buy illegally, possess illegally, take in clubs illegally > and often get addicted to. >The stimulant dosages used for treatment of ADD are not at all comparable to >the dosages used by illegal recreational speed users.

Please define "not at all comparable". > I once took 400mg of Prozac.  Was fun for about an hour and a half.  You > see, it peaks after an hour.  And yet doctors tell you to take it for > 4-6 weeks.  No-one knows why. >Sounds like you are one of those recreational drug users. People don’t take >Prozac for "fun", but because it has been prescribed to them for serious >problems. And no one takes 400 mg of it at once! That’s an incredible dose. >Lucky you’re alive!

You’re right, it was 40mg.  Maximum recommended dosage is 80mg. >Yes, doctors do "know why" they prescribe medicines for the length of time they >prescribe it for.

But you don’t?  Go ask one – I’d love to hear their answer. > Dave (professional PSYCHO-therapist), http://www.deep-trance.com >You are a professional "psycho-therapist"? Hard to believe.

Like I care what you believe. >(I don’t have time to look at the web site now.) (Easier to believe the part before the >hyphen, as one might have to be "psycho" to take 400 mg of Prozac.) What are >your credentials as a psychotherapist? Is your method of therapy to put >people in a "deep trance" (from the name of your web site). Are you a >hypnotist?

I could explain it to you, but that would take a long time and you probably still wouldn’t get it.  No offence – but I’ve tried that before. No, I don’t like pushing my authority and I wouldn’t wish anyone to pander to it. The only people I give credence to are those who are able to justify what they say with common sense. Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com Goodbye freedom: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25891.html

Response:

> Nothing "brave" or "non-brave" about it. It is effective in avoiding spam, > as spammers harvest e-mail addresses from newsgroups. I do it too.

I’m saying that he’s brave for using an antispam email address while spamming 11 groups. > Prozac to the ADD med), it doesn’t sound like he is suicidal,

Patients usually don’t volunteer this information, particularly over the Internet.  And patients can *become* suicidal after starting an SSRI. There have been lawsuits in the US over it, so I suspect that doctors there are prone to ‘do something’ to try to avoid it. > Just to point out, that when you say something like "the side effects of > Prozac are trivial, compared to the effects of serious depression, suicidal > behavior, etc.", that probably is relevant to many people, but perhaps not > to this guy, if he doesn’t have those conditions, and doesn’t know whether > the Prozac will really help him at all with the organizational problems, > etc. So his weighing of the side effects might be different than with > someone who is suffering from serious depression.

I doubt it.  He hasn’t experienced any of those side effects yet.  Wait till he’s on the medication and then ask him how he feels. > What do you mean by "well liked because of its side effects"?

Prozac is easy to prescribe to patients, partly because its side effect profile is much nicer than the other antidepressants given its tremendous positive benefits.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >Please don’t think this message is spam or trollery, due to the fact that I >posted it to several newsgroups, as it is neither. If you look at the list >of NGs I posted to, you’ll see that they all are related to the topic. I >don’t know which newsgroup might be more likely to have someone reading who >could give me useful input into these questions, so I’m crossposting to >several related newsgroups. >If you reply, please do not delete some of the NGs in your reply. I will >probably only read replies in one NG, and it might not be the one you are >reading it in. If you delete the others in your reply, I might never see it. >Also, the e-mail address given here for me is a fake one, to avoid spam, so >do not reply via e-mail. Please reply via newsgroup, and keep all the NGs >above in your reply. Please no troll or OT replies, only serious discussion >of the issues raised. >A few days ago I was prescribed Prozac by my psychiatrist. I just picked it >up at the pharmacy today, and  haven’t yet taken it, >Just for some background–I’m male, 50 years old, this is the first time >I’ve been prescribed any kind of anti-depressant. Just recently I was >diagnosed with ADD (non-hyperactive type-difficulty organizing, staying on >task, getting things done, etc.) and have been taking Adderall for a month. >The doctor is now adding Prozac to it, thinking that my problem might be >partially caused by anxiety. >When he first prescribed it for me on Wednesday, he specified the brand name >Prozac on the prescription, 10 mg tablets. One week taking a half tablet >once per day, then 1 tablet for the next week, 1

Question:

if i had not been exposed to anti-psych in university , I would have disregarded it as conspiracy theory. when i went to a psych and described very serious social anxiety, he quickly suggested schiz and said i’d be hallucinating in a few years. I knew that i was not schiz because i had no weird thoughts or delusions. I knew it was shyness and lack of confidence. No matter how hard i tried to explain my family background and why i did not fit in socially, he just ignored me. He was not interested in my background at all. I was simply amazed by this. At one point, he said he could not force me to take treatment. I know if this had been the fifties I could have been lobotomized. There is no way psych have a right to force people to take these drugs because there is no evidence that they help. I am all for forcing jehovah witnesses to take blood transfusions or take insulin or whatever because these treatments work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->anti-psychiatry is not scientology related. you have to disavow >scientology to be a member. anti-psychiatry is taught in university by >practicing psychiatrists. the research is bogus re the drugs. there is >no real evidence the drugs help. biological psychiatry is a joke as we >have no idea how the brain works and there is no evidence of a >chemical imbalance for any mental disorder. it is naive to think that >the brain is regulated by one chemical and somehow 60 per cent of the >population has this brain disease or chemical imbalance. psychiatry is >charletism. > Interesting how we can learn something new all the time.  I was > unaware that there was such  a thing as an official "anti > psychiatry"  that is actually taught in the universities. Thanks > for the information. It was only recently that some articles > filled us in as to what a C/S/X er is.  And even more recently > that we tried to figure out what the A of E (axis of evil) was. > And now, it is nice to know what  "anti psychiatry" is. > It is a good idea. to have such as thing taught in the > Universities.  I was beginning to think the Universities were > some sort of school from the dark ages,  rather than something > that might be thought of as anything remotely resembling "higher > learning".  When it came to mental health type of items. Whether > that be psychiatry,  or whether it be MDs acting like they know > something,  when they not only give away the psychotropic  pills > to people who do not suspect that they do not know  what they are > doing. > I can relate to what the editor of the web page wrote when he > said  " It did not take long to see what was happening." . > Though the details were different,  it did not take me very long > to see that there was something wrong with the system,  and on > such a massive scale that it took the internet to help me see > that I was not alone in observing that. > In spite of that, I do not seem  to as of yet be completely "anti > psychiatry". > More like  someone that thinks the C/S/X ers are the ones that > are on the right track.  And  it took one heck of a lot of doing > for the Lioness etc,  to help me see that even they are part of > the A of E , to the extent of being a part of the demand side of > the A of E pull . As  compared to the drug companies, puppet > doctors, shrills, NAMI etc being part of the supply side of the A > of E..  Still thinking about that.   > Here are a few things that I can come up with that might be > something "good" about psychiatry.  Which might help at least > partially balance what I see as quite a bit of harm.  Possibly > you or others  could help  see a way to explain how come my > perceptions of the "good part " of psychiatry might not be right > should they not be.. > Something good? > o    Quite a few people in anxiety – panic gp really seem to like > the SSRIs.   Almost as if the drugs might actually do something > good for some of them at least?. > o   At least some people in the depression gp have spoken up for > the SSRIs over the last year or so?.   > o    It does seem like if someone does get into big difficulty, > o    When it comes to bi polar or schizophrenia, there seem to be > quite a few people who speak up for psychiatry and / or the > drugs.  It seems to me that many of the people with those > symptoms are actually better off because of the doctors rather > than harmed by the doctors? > —- > But some of the worst things: > The entire  idea that people with those symptoms (bi polar or > schizophrenic)  must be forced drugged per the forced drug law > pushing people (NAMI – TAC  etc),  seems to me to have the tragic > potential.  Of  making people take drugs that can keep them from > getting well.. > The forced drugging laws are  propagandized to stir up mobs of > lawmakers  to pass forced drugging laws against the mentally ill, > With their emphasis on one or two murders , or the lack of > insight, the so called must be incompetent if one does not want > drugs  go  way beyond even just  bi polar or schizophrenic > symptom people.  .   But can extend to anything that some doctor > thinks might "needed ": or  "deteriorate"  if drugs are not > forced on them.  Which for most doctors is almost anything and > everything.. > I have been impressed by some of the C/S/X posts such as the ones > from "s" or "gemini" etc.  . Such as how in Countries without > mental health systems,  people can recover from something as > serious as schizophrenic symptoms,.  Even  better than in > countries that have a mental health system.   Or just the amazing > example of how someone that has been on the SSRIs plus other > pills  etc for a decade.  is finally able to get fully better > only by getting off the drugs .  The drugs the doctors gave her > all that time without even  thinking about it.   > And of course the John Nash example is  good.  How he got himself > better without drugs in spite of the propaganda from those that > try to make it look like the so called "modern drugs" did it. > When he hasn’t even had a drug in over 30 years.  . > Most likely they will not force drug the  10 s of millions some > might like. to see happen. > But even it were just a few of the people who are made sick by > the drugs,  were forced to take them, that could have the > dimensions  of an "atrocity"  in my book.  And it most likely > would not be just a few,  but significant numbers. Especially if > one were to try to count the people who might be more easily > coerced into  taking the pills they don’t want because of the > backing of the new laws. > And going beyond the horror of forced drugging, there is so much > emphasis on the drugs,  that it can be difficult to get > alternative treatments.  Especially from the hospitals.  Even > though most will offer things like CBT,  it can be  difficult to > get that without having the drugs shoved down the throat as part > of it..  It is too bad a person can not get hospital help without > being locked up.  And without being drugged so extensively as to > need to be locked up , just to keep from getting lost  should > they be able to somehow manage to make it out. > So, it does seem that there is lots to be "anti psychiatry" > about.   But I still have trouble going that far due to at least > some  "good" which I also seem to be able to see. > Regardless of whether we might be anti psychiatry, or not anti > psychiatry, I can see a lot of good coming out of the web page > site referenced in this thread.  Would like to see it continue > and expand.     With or without the pills, information about > alternative treatments can be helpful.  And with of without the > pills, information as to which doctors push drugs and which don’t > can be useful.   But especially useful for C/S/.X ers that would > like to stay off the drugs if they can, but have trouble finding > a doctor that does not push the drugs. >> >What do u think of this website? >> Not sure what to make of it?   Here are some of my "first >> impressions".  May need to revise some of these impressions after >> more study.. >> The site has some valuable information that I have not seen >> anywhere else such as the list of doctors by the area of the >> country, and a description as to what their drug philosophy is. >> That is something a number of people need. And if the list could >> be added to, it could end up being terrific. >> One item to consider: > snip >> In addition to the list of doctors which I found interesting, I >> also found the letter from the editor interesting.  And would >> like to quote some of the items in the letter from the editor. >> Which I seem to like quite a bit because it depicts some >> situations which hopefully do not happen too often, but do >> happen. And hopefully people could be made more aware of them. >> Be sure to see the entire page for the entire article. >> http://prozactruth.com/conclusion.htm >> " Prozac Truth Letter From the Editor " >>  " Letter From the Editor         >> "  I am not a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or a Psychologist. I >> am a researcher who began looking into an area that I felt was >> being abusive to children. It did not take long to see what was >> happening." >> "  Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist >> to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI’s and their effects

… read more »

Response:

>anti-psychiatry is not scientology related. you have to disavow >scientology to be a member. anti-psychiatry is taught in university by >practicing psychiatrists. the research is bogus re the drugs. there is >no real evidence the drugs help. biological psychiatry is a joke as we >have no idea how the brain works and there is no evidence of a >chemical imbalance for any mental disorder. it is naive to think that >the brain is regulated by one chemical and somehow 60 per cent of the >population has this brain disease or chemical imbalance. psychiatry is >charletism.

Interesting how we can learn something new all the time.  I was unaware that there was such  a thing as an official "anti psychiatry"  that is actually taught in the universities. Thanks for the information. It was only recently that some articles filled us in as to what a C/S/X er is.  And even more recently that we tried to figure out what the A of E (axis of evil) was. And now, it is nice to know what  "anti psychiatry" is. It is a good idea. to have such as thing taught in the Universities.  I was beginning to think the Universities were some sort of school from the dark ages,  rather than something that might be thought of as anything remotely resembling "higher learning".  When it came to mental health type of items. Whether that be psychiatry,  or whether it be MDs acting like they know something,  when they not only give away the psychotropic  pills to people who do not suspect that they do not know  what they are doing. I can relate to what the editor of the web page wrote when he said  " It did not take long to see what was happening." . Though the details were different,  it did not take me very long to see that there was something wrong with the system,  and on such a massive scale that it took the internet to help me see that I was not alone in observing that. In spite of that, I do not seem  to as of yet be completely "anti psychiatry". More like  someone that thinks the C/S/X ers are the ones that are on the right track.  And  it took one heck of a lot of doing for the Lioness etc,  to help me see that even they are part of the A of E , to the extent of being a part of the demand side of the A of E pull . As  compared to the drug companies, puppet doctors, shrills, NAMI etc being part of the supply side of the A of E..  Still thinking about that.   Here are a few things that I can come up with that might be something "good" about psychiatry.  Which might help at least partially balance what I see as quite a bit of harm.  Possibly you or others  could help  see a way to explain how come my perceptions of the "good part " of psychiatry might not be right should they not be.. Something good? o    Quite a few people in anxiety – panic gp really seem to like the SSRIs.   Almost as if the drugs might actually do something good for some of them at least?. o   At least some people in the depression gp have spoken up for the SSRIs over the last year or so?.   o    It does seem like if someone does get into big difficulty, o    When it comes to bi polar or schizophrenia, there seem to be quite a few people who speak up for psychiatry and / or the drugs.  It seems to me that many of the people with those symptoms are actually better off because of the doctors rather than harmed by the doctors? —- But some of the worst things: The entire  idea that people with those symptoms (bi polar or schizophrenic)  must be forced drugged per the forced drug law pushing people (NAMI – TAC  etc),  seems to me to have the tragic potential.  Of  making people take drugs that can keep them from getting well.. The forced drugging laws are  propagandized to stir up mobs of lawmakers  to pass forced drugging laws against the mentally ill, With their emphasis on one or two murders , or the lack of insight, the so called must be incompetent if one does not want drugs  go  way beyond even just  bi polar or schizophrenic symptom people.  .   But can extend to anything that some doctor thinks might "needed ": or  "deteriorate"  if drugs are not forced on them.  Which for most doctors is almost anything and everything.. I have been impressed by some of the C/S/X posts such as the ones from "s" or "gemini" etc.  . Such as how in Countries without mental health systems,  people can recover from something as serious as schizophrenic symptoms,.  Even  better than in countries that have a mental health system.   Or just the amazing example of how someone that has been on the SSRIs plus other pills  etc for a decade.  is finally able to get fully better only by getting off the drugs .  The drugs the doctors gave her all that time without even  thinking about it.   And of course the John Nash example is  good.  How he got himself better without drugs in spite of the propaganda from those that try to make it look like the so called "modern drugs" did it. When he hasn’t even had a drug in over 30 years.  . Most likely they will not force drug the  10 s of millions some might like. to see happen. But even it were just a few of the people who are made sick by the drugs,  were forced to take them, that could have the dimensions  of an "atrocity"  in my book.  And it most likely would not be just a few,  but significant numbers. Especially if one were to try to count the people who might be more easily coerced into  taking the pills they don’t want because of the backing of the new laws. And going beyond the horror of forced drugging, there is so much emphasis on the drugs,  that it can be difficult to get alternative treatments.  Especially from the hospitals.  Even though most will offer things like CBT,  it can be  difficult to get that without having the drugs shoved down the throat as part of it..  It is too bad a person can not get hospital help without being locked up.  And without being drugged so extensively as to need to be locked up , just to keep from getting lost  should they be able to somehow manage to make it out. So, it does seem that there is lots to be "anti psychiatry" about.   But I still have trouble going that far due to at least some  "good" which I also seem to be able to see. Regardless of whether we might be anti psychiatry, or not anti psychiatry, I can see a lot of good coming out of the web page site referenced in this thread.  Would like to see it continue and expand.     With or without the pills, information about alternative treatments can be helpful.  And with of without the pills, information as to which doctors push drugs and which don’t can be useful.   But especially useful for C/S/.X ers that would like to stay off the drugs if they can, but have trouble finding a doctor that does not push the drugs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >What do u think of this website? > Not sure what to make of it?   Here are some of my "first > impressions".  May need to revise some of these impressions after > more study.. > The site has some valuable information that I have not seen > anywhere else such as the list of doctors by the area of the > country, and a description as to what their drug philosophy is. > That is something a number of people need. And if the list could > be added to, it could end up being terrific. > One item to consider:

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In addition to the list of doctors which I found interesting, I > also found the letter from the editor interesting.  And would > like to quote some of the items in the letter from the editor. > Which I seem to like quite a bit because it depicts some > situations which hopefully do not happen too often, but do > happen. And hopefully people could be made more aware of them. > Be sure to see the entire page for the entire article. > http://prozactruth.com/conclusion.htm > " Prozac Truth Letter From the Editor " >  " Letter From the Editor         > "  I am not a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or a Psychologist. I > am a researcher who began looking into an area that I felt was > being abusive to children. It did not take long to see what was > happening." > "  Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist > to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI’s and their effects > on people and society? I do not think so."

snip Leaving this in because it is a great example. I noticed an article some months back about a person that wanted to know if they could get the nursing home to  put Haldol into their relative,  to keep him from not wanting to go to the nursing home in the first place. The answer to that post fortunately was  not recommended..  Also we might recall just a couple months ago the 76 yr old lady who was in the hospital for physical things, but did not want to talk to the psychiatrist when they tried to get her examined.  And  got herself 10 mg of Haldol  which put her into a coma. .   As the forced laws go into effect, it could become more easy to pump Haldol into people,  and just sort of put them into a semi coma,  without even having to bother pushing them into the hospital – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "  The cases mentioned above are not rare. Actually, the abuse is > much greater. I was helping an individual get her father out of a > Psychiatric Hospital in 1999 and what I ran into was horrific." > " The man is about 80 years old and was living in a nursing home. > He complained for weeks that his skin was itching everywhere. The > nurses at the home thought he was insane. He was committed for a > 48 hour observation. He called his daughter right away asking for > help. The first evening at the Psychiatric Hospital he was given > Haldol. The

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Response:

anti-psychiatry is not scientology related. you have to disavow scientology to be a member. anti-psychiatry is taught in university by practicing psychiatrists. the research is bogus re the drugs. there is no real evidence the drugs help. biological psychiatry is a joke as we have no idea how the brain works and there is no evidence of a chemical imbalance for any mental disorder. it is naive to think that the brain is regulated by one chemical and somehow 60 per cent of the population has this brain disease or chemical imbalance. psychiatry is charletism. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->What do u think of this website? > Not sure what to make of it?   Here are some of my "first > impressions".  May need to revise some of these impressions after > more study.. > The site has some valuable information that I have not seen > anywhere else such as the list of doctors by the area of the > country, and a description as to what their drug philosophy is. > That is something a number of people need. And if the list could > be added to, it could end up being terrific. > One item to consider: > Although we have discussed many times how this or that might be a > "scientologist"  etc,  almost every time it is not.  But rather a > propaganda attempt to try to divert attention from any article > that might not be favorable to drugs.  Fortunately this tactic > has mostly disappeared over the last year.  The impression I get > in reading this site is that it "might be"  a scientologist site. > That comes from a combination of adding in religious type > messages and reference to a scientology site etc.  Do not see any > problem with either, but it does raise  the question and might > turn some people away from some good information. > Another item to consider: > The information on vitamins appears to be almost like an > advertisement etc.    Should that be a major purpose of the site, > it would be good if that was owned up to up front.   If it is not > one of the major purposes, then it could help if the vitamin page > were developed in a fashion as to provide useful and unbiased > information on that.  Once there are "sales " involved, then > objectivity is not as well guaranteed. > In addition to the list of doctors which I found interesting, I > also found the letter from the editor interesting.  And would > like to quote some of the items in the letter from the editor. > Which I seem to like quite a bit because it depicts some > situations which hopefully do not happen too often, but do > happen. And hopefully people could be made more aware of them. > Be sure to see the entire page for the entire article. > http://prozactruth.com/conclusion.htm > " Prozac Truth Letter From the Editor " >  " Letter From the Editor         > "  I am not a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or a Psychologist. I > am a researcher who began looking into an area that I felt was > being abusive to children. It did not take long to see what was > happening." > "  Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist > to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI’s and their effects > on people and society? I do not think so." > snip > "    This Web Site and the data that is included, is in no way > meant to belittle or imply that depression or other symptoms do > not exist. The treatment of symptoms is the issue. The same holds > true for Attention Deficit Disorder." > "   These medications are being given to individuals > indiscriminately. Women are being prescribed Prozac (Sarafem) to > treat PMS without even being told it is Prozac. Parents are being > forced to allow their children to be medicated or the state will > put them in foster care. Who would think that in the United > States of America, we would be told "put your child on Ritalin or > we will take the child away from you." This is not only happening > in the poverty areas, it is happening more often in suburbia.  " > Comment: > We have seen a few of these right here on the internet.  It has > been pointed out a number of times that in addition to forcing > people to have their children drugged by threats of taking them > away, there are situations where the threat is made if the parent > does not take the drugs. About as strong a coercion as one might > find. > "  The cases mentioned above are not rare. Actually, the abuse is > much greater. I was helping an individual get her father out of a > Psychiatric Hospital in 1999 and what I ran into was horrific." > " The man is about 80 years old and was living in a nursing home. > He complained for weeks that his skin was itching everywhere. The > nurses at the home thought he was insane. He was committed for a > 48 hour observation. He called his daughter right away asking for > help. The first evening at the Psychiatric Hospital he was given > Haldol. The next day I was talking to him on the telephone when > the nurse approached him and forced him to receive a shot of > Haldol once again. The man was not angry or resistive in any way. > He explained everything that was happening to him at that moment. > The Haldol took effect instantly. His speech began to slur and > this man was so insane he told me, "I am getting sleepy now. I > guess I will go lay down and take advantage of this and catch up > on my sleep." Does that sound like the response of an insane man > to you?  " > "    It took 4 people at the hearing to get him out of the > hospital. The Psychiatrist were still insisting he was a threat > to himself and to others. By the time the hearing was over, the > Psychiatrist gave up their fight and began backpedaling very > quickly. We did have to sign a statement that we would not file a > law suit against the hospital or the individual Psychiatrist in > order to get him out quickly." > "    What was the final outcome? We had him see a competent > Medical Doctor and it was determined, he was allergic to the > carpet fibers in his bedroom. The nursing home had just changed > all of the carpeting a few days before his complaints started. > This died December 2001. I was able to see him live the few > remaining years in comfort, enjoying the things in life he had > cherished for many years. " > snip > Comment:   > We should note that many people who do not even have mental > symptoms are going to end up in nursing homes sometimes before > they die.  The ability of nursing homes to try to drug people is > a concern , especially as the forced drugging laws continue to > get passed.   >  In one set of laws that are being proposed, the nursing home has > standing to obtain outpatient forced drugging commitment.   With > that kind of a law behind them, it would make it a lot easier for > them to Haldolize people,  just by being able to make threats of > involuntary commitment if they do not take the drugs.  The easier > it gets to force drug or commit (or both) people, the more > vigilance will be needed to watch out for the type of thing > mentioned here in the letter to the editor. > snip > "   If drugs are not the answer, what is? Greater minds than mine > have been searching for these answers for thousands of years. " > "   What has worked for some people?" > Religion > Meditation > Family > A change of diet > Their own self-determinism > Time > Natural Alternatives > snip > "     What to believe? If we can be our own worst enemy then we > can also be our own best friend. Start believing in yourself. If > you are currently using psychiatric medication and you want to > quit, research and do more research. Write down what plan you > will use to get yourself off the medication. It will be up to you > to make this happen. " > snip > "Sincerely, > Jim Harper" > More comments: > I think it is a good thing to provided information about > alternatives etc.  That type of information seems to get > suppressed , or at least not mentioned when seeing doctors etc. > Though the stance against the drugs is much more severe than my > own opinions might be, there should some value to a variety of > sites. > Some of which might be of the Dr Breggin variety .  Which could > include not only the against drugs flavor as Dr Breggin provides > but also the alternative treatments which are provided here . > (Dr Brggin is not a scientolgist btw for any that might not > know). > And those that could favor alternatives treatments but are not > against the drugs as many of the sites are such as the > mindfreedom organization which mostly about being against  forced > drugging.  Dr Burns could fit this category since although he has > spent a lot of time developing self managed CBT etc in his books, > he also is quite willing to use drugs. > And there are sites which are at the far extreme which not only > favor the drugs, but want to get laws passed to try to cram them > down anyone that any doctors seems to think "needs" some drugs. > There should be room for all of the different type of sites on > the internet including this site. Even if it is much harder or > the drugs and the doctors than even some of the most I’m from > Missouri, or doubting Thomas  that post to the net. >  And I would like it quite a bit if the doctor’s list was > expanded.  Be sure to keep the drug philosophy part.  And would > be great if some sort of "pushiness" factor could be included so > that some who do not like pushy doctors could avoid them.  I > doubt that all the pushy doctors will admit to that. So the > phrase might be more along the lines of whether or not the doctor > sees his/her role as an advisor, or as some sort of a try to make > the patient do

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Response:

What do u think of this website?

Response:

has there ever actually been a death that was directly linked to one of the ADs mentioned on this site?  

Response:

> has there ever actually been a death that was directly linked to one of the > ADs mentioned on this site?

only murders and suicides.

Response:

> What do u think of this website?

Something has happened to it – it is not the same anymore; — "Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good."                                         – Samuel Johnson

Response:

>> has there ever actually been a death that was directly linked to one > of the ADs mentioned on this site? > only murders and suicides.

That could be attributed solely (or almost solely) to an AD?  

Response:

>What do u think of this website?

Not sure what to make of it?   Here are some of my "first impressions".  May need to revise some of these impressions after more study.. The site has some valuable information that I have not seen anywhere else such as the list of doctors by the area of the country, and a description as to what their drug philosophy is. That is something a number of people need. And if the list could be added to, it could end up being terrific. One item to consider: Although we have discussed many times how this or that might be a "scientologist"  etc,  almost every time it is not.  But rather a propaganda attempt to try to divert attention from any article that might not be favorable to drugs.  Fortunately this tactic has mostly disappeared over the last year.  The impression I get in reading this site is that it "might be"  a scientologist site. That comes from a combination of adding in religious type messages and reference to a scientology site etc.  Do not see any problem with either, but it does raise  the question and might turn some people away from some good information. Another item to consider: The information on vitamins appears to be almost like an advertisement etc.    Should that be a major purpose of the site, it would be good if that was owned up to up front.   If it is not one of the major purposes, then it could help if the vitamin page were developed in a fashion as to provide useful and unbiased information on that.  Once there are "sales " involved, then objectivity is not as well guaranteed. In addition to the list of doctors which I found interesting, I also found the letter from the editor interesting.  And would like to quote some of the items in the letter from the editor. Which I seem to like quite a bit because it depicts some situations which hopefully do not happen too often, but do happen. And hopefully people could be made more aware of them. Be sure to see the entire page for the entire article. http://prozactruth.com/conclusion.htm " Prozac Truth Letter From the Editor "  " Letter From the Editor         "  I am not a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or a Psychologist. I am a researcher who began looking into an area that I felt was being abusive to children. It did not take long to see what was happening." "  Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI’s and their effects on people and society? I do not think so." snip "    This Web Site and the data that is included, is in no way meant to belittle or imply that depression or other symptoms do not exist. The treatment of symptoms is the issue. The same holds true for Attention Deficit Disorder." "   These medications are being given to individuals indiscriminately. Women are being prescribed Prozac (Sarafem) to treat PMS without even being told it is Prozac. Parents are being forced to allow their children to be medicated or the state will put them in foster care. Who would think that in the United States of America, we would be told "put your child on Ritalin or we will take the child away from you." This is not only happening in the poverty areas, it is happening more often in suburbia.  " Comment: We have seen a few of these right here on the internet.  It has been pointed out a number of times that in addition to forcing people to have their children drugged by threats of taking them away, there are situations where the threat is made if the parent does not take the drugs. About as strong a coercion as one might find. "  The cases mentioned above are not rare. Actually, the abuse is much greater. I was helping an individual get her father out of a Psychiatric Hospital in 1999 and what I ran into was horrific." " The man is about 80 years old and was living in a nursing home. He complained for weeks that his skin was itching everywhere. The nurses at the home thought he was insane. He was committed for a 48 hour observation. He called his daughter right away asking for help. The first evening at the Psychiatric Hospital he was given Haldol. The next day I was talking to him on the telephone when the nurse approached him and forced him to receive a shot of Haldol once again. The man was not angry or resistive in any way. He explained everything that was happening to him at that moment. The Haldol took effect instantly. His speech began to slur and this man was so insane he told me, "I am getting sleepy now. I guess I will go lay down and take advantage of this and catch up on my sleep." Does that sound like the response of an insane man to you?  " "    It took 4 people at the hearing to get him out of the hospital. The Psychiatrist were still insisting he was a threat to himself and to others. By the time the hearing was over, the Psychiatrist gave up their fight and began backpedaling very quickly. We did have to sign a statement that we would not file a law suit against the hospital or the individual Psychiatrist in order to get him out quickly." "    What was the final outcome? We had him see a competent Medical Doctor and it was determined, he was allergic to the carpet fibers in his bedroom. The nursing home had just changed all of the carpeting a few days before his complaints started. This died December 2001. I was able to see him live the few remaining years in comfort, enjoying the things in life he had cherished for many years. " snip Comment:   We should note that many people who do not even have mental symptoms are going to end up in nursing homes sometimes before they die.  The ability of nursing homes to try to drug people is a concern , especially as the forced drugging laws continue to get passed.    In one set of laws that are being proposed, the nursing home has standing to obtain outpatient forced drugging commitment.   With that kind of a law behind them, it would make it a lot easier for them to Haldolize people,  just by being able to make threats of involuntary commitment if they do not take the drugs.  The easier it gets to force drug or commit (or both) people, the more vigilance will be needed to watch out for the type of thing mentioned here in the letter to the editor. snip "   If drugs are not the answer, what is? Greater minds than mine have been searching for these answers for thousands of years. " "   What has worked for some people?" Religion Meditation Family A change of diet Their own self-determinism Time Natural Alternatives snip "     What to believe? If we can be our own worst enemy then we can also be our own best friend. Start believing in yourself. If you are currently using psychiatric medication and you want to quit, research and do more research. Write down what plan you will use to get yourself off the medication. It will be up to you to make this happen. " snip "Sincerely, Jim Harper" More comments: I think it is a good thing to provided information about alternatives etc.  That type of information seems to get suppressed , or at least not mentioned when seeing doctors etc. Though the stance against the drugs is much more severe than my own opinions might be, there should some value to a variety of sites. Some of which might be of the Dr Breggin variety .  Which could include not only the against drugs flavor as Dr Breggin provides but also the alternative treatments which are provided here . (Dr Brggin is not a scientolgist btw for any that might not know). And those that could favor alternatives treatments but are not against the drugs as many of the sites are such as the mindfreedom organization which mostly about being against  forced drugging.  Dr Burns could fit this category since although he has spent a lot of time developing self managed CBT etc in his books, he also is quite willing to use drugs. And there are sites which are at the far extreme which not only favor the drugs, but want to get laws passed to try to cram them down anyone that any doctors seems to think "needs" some drugs. There should be room for all of the different type of sites on the internet including this site. Even if it is much harder or the drugs and the doctors than even some of the most I’m from Missouri, or doubting Thomas  that post to the net.  And I would like it quite a bit if the doctor’s list was expanded.  Be sure to keep the drug philosophy part.  And would be great if some sort of "pushiness" factor could be included so that some who do not like pushy doctors could avoid them.  I doubt that all the pushy doctors will admit to that. So the phrase might be more along the lines of whether or not the doctor sees his/her role as an advisor, or as some sort of a try to make the patient do things type of doctor.. (Empowerment vs Slavery). The question about whether or not the doctor will help the person off of drugs is a good one and sort of takes care of this in part. It could help to clarify the  status of  a few things such as the vitamin advertisement.   If this is all about advertising products along with some potentially useful information, it would be better to be up front about that.  . If it is about useful information, with some advertisement etc, that too would be worth knowing about up front.,. And the  scientology  thing could use some clearing up. Whether or not just  against drugs etc  per bad experiences, or whether or not there is a scientology component to this. .  On the one hand, facts should be facts, but on the other hand there is something about scientology that really turns people off.  And thereby potentially deprive them of some of the good parts of the information.

Response:

Question:

Hello, My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with whatever we decide. Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for a few days. Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks, Fernand

Response:

Get another Doc, sounds like he/she doesn’t really know what to perscribe. A shrink with expeience will have a better understanding of your wifes problem. But in the end, it’s still trial and error method, cause everybody reacts differently to different meds. good luck.

Response:

Are you seeing a shrink or a MD? — John T. May Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, > with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part > because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including > bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting > and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps > starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with > whatever we decide. > Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages > really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the > moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft > instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been > feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about > right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for > a few days. > Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. > Thanks, > Fernand

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, >with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part >because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including >bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting >and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps >starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with >whatever we decide. >Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages >really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the >moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft >instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been >feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about >right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for >a few days. >Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. >Thanks, >Fernand

As far as dosage, there really isn’t any conversion IME as to what equals what. It’s really based on reaction to the med which really varies from person to person. I don’t hold myself out as a medical professional, but I wonder why a doctor has 3 different antidepressants in her system at once, frankly, even two. Right now, with three different antidepressants, 2 acting on serotonin and on mainly acting on norephinephrine I don’t see how anyone would be able to sort out what antidepressant in this combo is causing which effect to happen. It’s not unheard of to be on more than one antidepressant, but to _me_, it complicates things. I assume she was put on 2 because either the Effexor wasn’t doing the job completely or just quit. If it were me, I would prefer to be switched just to one med, so if it stopped working I wouldn’t have to guess as to what is doing what. As much as we know about the brain, we have no clue as to what happens to emotions when you start dealing with med combos. It may be why you are getting the "heavy-handed, and uneven in action" you describe. In fact, if you go to the pharmacy and ask for the prescribing information attached to the bottle and can make it through all the fine print, you’ll see that agitation or anger that your wife is experience listed as a reported side effect of the medication (not common but it happens) – so it’s not implausible that one med is causing it, let alone a combo of three. It could also be the depression, but you are still just left to guesswork. I’m only speaking as someone who has been on and off of antidepressants and combinations for over 20 years, so take it for what it’s worth. Feel free to discard it. These meds can do strange things, especially in combos. While we know what goes on in our head better than the doctors and I have always played an active role in picking new meds, frankly, I would be a bit scared if my doctor told me he’d approve whatever I chose and whatever dosage I wanted and left me to do the research. I would consider going to another psychiatrist for just one or two visits while still keeping your current doctor. Explain the situation and just tell them you want a second opinion. That’s how I got the doc I have today. He saw some things, recommended some changes, and I started feeling so good I kept him. Anyway, enough blabbing. The bottom line is getting your wife to feel better, and whatever path you choose to take to successfully get there no one can complain about. My best to your wife, and you as well. Roy

Response:

Thanks, Roy, The Effexor was added when Zolotf alone became insufficient. The combination works not too badly. It would be nice if a single med worked, especially one with a longer duration of action, a more benign withdrawal, and lower cost. Hence the concept that maybe Prozac alone would be a reasonable try. But because of the (very slow) curve of Prozac, the move through a gradual substitution seems reasonable. I think we’re fortunate in having a little more control than those patients who have no say in their meds, and who consider that a blessing. With indirect acting meds like SSRIs, where the effects take time to develop, where the underlying state of the patient plays such a huge role, and where the physician has no meaningful personal experience (unlike for instance with sedatives, where the physician should clearly know from personal experience e.g. the subjective difference between a benzodiazepine and an antipsychotic), realistically we’re on our own anyway, assessing what works better, which side-effects are most annoying, etc. There are no hard and fast rules, and there are no ultimate experts or authorities. The standard info is there in the PDR, the literature and the textbooks. But many of the people in support groups have developed an invaluable body of personal experience above and beyond that, and this is what I was asking. Thanks for your input, Fernand

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, >My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, >with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part >because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including >bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting >and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps >starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with >whatever we decide. >Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages >really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the >moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft >instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been >feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about >right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for >a few days. >Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. >Thanks, >Fernand

As far as dosage, there really isn’t any conversion IME as to what equals what. It’s really based on reaction to the med which really varies from person to person. I don’t hold myself out as a medical professional, but I wonder why a doctor has 3 different antidepressants in her system at once, frankly, even two. Right now, with three different antidepressants, 2 acting on serotonin and on mainly acting on norephinephrine I don’t see how anyone would be able to sort out what antidepressant in this combo is causing which effect to happen. It’s not unheard of to be on more than one antidepressant, but to _me_, it complicates things. I assume she was put on 2 because either the Effexor wasn’t doing the job completely or just quit. If it were me, I would prefer to be switched just to one med, so if it stopped working I wouldn’t have to guess as to what is doing what. As much as we know about the brain, we have no clue as to what happens to emotions when you start dealing with med combos. It may be why you are getting the "heavy-handed, and uneven in action" you describe. In fact, if you go to the pharmacy and ask for the prescribing information attached to the bottle and can make it through all the fine print, you’ll see that agitation or anger that your wife is experience listed as a reported side effect of the medication (not common but it happens) – so it’s not implausible that one med is causing it, let alone a combo of three. It could also be the depression, but you are still just left to guesswork. I’m only speaking as someone who has been on and off of antidepressants and combinations for over 20 years, so take it for what it’s worth. Feel free to discard it. These meds can do strange things, especially in combos. While we know what goes on in our head better than the doctors and I have always played an active role in picking new meds, frankly, I would be a bit scared if my doctor told me he’d approve whatever I chose and whatever dosage I wanted and left me to do the research. I would consider going to another psychiatrist for just one or two visits while still keeping your current doctor. Explain the situation and just tell them you want a second opinion. That’s how I got the doc I have today. He saw some things, recommended some changes, and I started feeling so good I kept him. Anyway, enough blabbing. The bottom line is getting your wife to feel better, and whatever path you choose to take to successfully get there no one can complain about. My best to your wife, and you as well. Roy

Response:

I know one thing, ZOLOFT turned me into a hair triggered bad tempered maniac, I was terrible, snappy all the time and felt that angry inside it was like frustration, My doc changed me to Prozac and within two weeks my temper was back to normal. take care

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, > with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in part > because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including > bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting > and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps > starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with > whatever we decide. > Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages > really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the > moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft > instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been > feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about > right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that for > a few days. > Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. > Thanks, > Fernand

Response:

Thanks for your feedback, actually it seems that as she slowly tapers off the Zoloft and Effexor over to Prozac, my wife is showing less of that hair-trigger anger, and ALSO feeling less gloomy. It was interesting to read some studies that suggested that Prozac worked better than zoloft on people with emotional swings. It is often the case that the older meds, which are no longer on exclusive brand name patent, are discarded by physicians under sales pressure from the pharm companies, but that in fact the old original, that all the imitations were created after, is still the better one. Generic Prozac is enormously less profitable than the newer ones. Pharmacologically, unless there is a specific reason, it is fair to say that the old and inexpensive one should be tried first. I’m not suggesting that for instance an old tricyclic or MAO inhibitor be used in place of a SSRI. But within the SSRI class, the older compound, in this case Prozac, with more mileage and test results, should not be passed by just because there is a shiny new one that is better-marketed. In her case there was a brief trial of Prozac as I recall, but we know now that it’s a very very slowly acting drug, so a couple of weeks for instance is quite inadequate as a trial period. In our case, if the results continue as they have so far, it would suggest that we could have saved a lot of money and grief sooner. Fernand

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know one thing, ZOLOFT turned me into a hair triggered bad tempered > maniac, I was terrible, snappy all the time and felt that angry inside it > was like frustration, My doc changed me to Prozac and within two weeks my > temper was back to normal. > take care > Hello, > My wife has been taking 150 mg of Effexor SR, and 200 mg of Zoloft a day, > with uneven results, for the last 2 years. In part due to cost, and in > part > because the combination is heavy-handed, and uneven in action, including > bouts of anger, it seems plausible to try switching over to longer-acting > and cheaper Prozac, perhaps replacing both Zoloft and Effexor, perhaps > starting by replacing one. The physician in this case is going along with > whatever we decide. > Does anyone have any experience with this, namely what equipotent dosages > really would be, how best to make the transition, and so forth. At the > moment she has been taking the same 150 mg of Effexor, one 100 mg Zoloft > instead of two, and one 20 mg Prozac for about a week, but she has been > feeling more down, it seems that 40 mg (and not 20 mg) of Prozac is about > right to replace the missing 100 mg of Zoloft, so we will be trying that > for > a few days. > Any thoughts and experiences would be much appreciated. > Thanks, > Fernand

Response:

Question:

I read up on this.   Most likely nothing bad will happen, since your already tappering your SSRI, you won’t have enough drug in your system to interact dangerously.  I’ve seen a study where they combine a SSRI with 5-HTP(tryptophan) and nothing bad was reported.  Same study with st. johns wort and Kava.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to > 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better > dose. > Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of > SSRIS, > I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. > Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a > horrible death ? LOL > What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Dear Never Mind, > I think everyone’s experience can be very different. > I withdrew from celexa, slowly in two week increments. > 20mg / 10mg / 5mgs  by cutting the tablets into halves > than quarters.  But your question about tryptophan > I can answer, I suggest you contact your doctor or > pharmacist. > Take care of yourself, > Julie > I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to > 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better > dose. > Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of > SSRIS, > I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. > Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a > horrible death ? LOL > What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks

My Dr wouldnt know ANYTHING about tryptophan.

Response:

I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better dose. Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of SSRIS, I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a horrible death ? LOL What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

Does anyone have any comments or is this board just a wasteland of spam ?

Response:

Dear Never Mind, I think everyone’s experience can be very different. I withdrew from celexa, slowly in two week increments. 20mg / 10mg / 5mgs  by cutting the tablets into halves than quarters.  But your question about tryptophan I can answer, I suggest you contact your doctor or pharmacist. Take care of yourself, Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I was taking 40mg of celexa per day and I have weaned myself down to > 20mg. I have felt better, personally, I think 60mg would be a better > dose. > Anyway, in an attempt to "go natural"  and avoid the side effects of > SSRIS, > I have obtained some 500mg tryptophan tablets. Only 50. > Anyway, can I add tryptophan while reducing Celexa or will I die a > horrible death ? LOL > What tryptophan dosage would most resemble 40mg of celexa ? > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks

Response:

Question:

I know I’m new here and already posting too many questions but I’m very bothered by what I "really need", so please bear with me and help me find the most possible solution.     OK, I have heard from a lot of people that Paxil does in fact work very well but causes fatigue and sexual side effects (at least in men) regardless of the duration you’ve been taking it. My biggest side effect problem now is the sexual because of the almost impossibility of gaining an orgasm. It is like an act of congress to concentrate hard enough to climax on this stuff. My sexual desire however isn’t being affected detrimentally yet. And the fatigue is another big problem.     On valium, I figured I could just take it when a certain situation is upcoming and be relaxed for that situation. This way (it seems to me) I wouldn’t have the side effects to deal with that Paxil brings. I truly want to be happy and maybe I will, in fact, simply have to sacrifice bad orgasms, faitgue and nausea with ultimate happiness. Please help me if any of you have any suggestions for I am listening wholeheartedly. Thank You.

Response:

SSRIs commonly decrease sexual desire and often cause impotence in men.  Ask your doc if he can prescribe something along with the Paxil to get you going again.   It is a trade-off.   Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I truly want to be happy and maybe I will, in fact, simply have to >sacrifice bad orgasms, faitgue and nausea with ultimate happiness. >Please help me if any of you have any suggestions for I am listening >wholeheartedly. Thank You.

Response:

Pill abusers are more often female while opiate users are more likely to be male. GPs are all familiar with the extremes: ‘morbid’ abusers are usually younger patients who may be using other drugs as well. They often take far higher than therapeutic doses. At the other extreme is an older patient who is taking therapeutic or slightly higher doses of benzodiazepines with or without alcohol. There is also a grey area in between. We now know that patients in both groups are in danger of serious complications and hence may need intervention.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m new here and already posting too many questions but I’m very > bothered by what I "really need", so please bear with me and help me > find the most possible solution. >     OK, I have heard from a lot of people that Paxil does in fact work > very well but causes fatigue and sexual side effects (at least in men) > regardless of the duration you’ve been taking it. My biggest side effect > problem now is the sexual because of the almost impossibility of gaining > an orgasm. It is like an act of congress to concentrate hard enough to > climax on this stuff. My sexual desire however isn’t being affected > detrimentally yet. And the fatigue is another big problem. >     On valium, I figured I could just take it when a certain situation > is upcoming and be relaxed for that situation. This way (it seems to me) > I wouldn’t have the side effects to deal with that Paxil brings. > I truly want to be happy and maybe I will, in fact, simply have to > sacrifice bad orgasms, faitgue and nausea with ultimate happiness. > Please help me if any of you have any suggestions for I am listening > wholeheartedly. Thank You.

Response:

As with any prescription medication, Paxil may cause side effects in some people. These are usually mild and temporary. A common side effect is nausea, which may be alleviated by taking Paxil with food. Other side effects might include asthenia (lack or loss of strength), sweating, decreased appetite, somnolence (sleepiness), dizziness, insomnia, tremor, nervousness and sexual side effects. If you experience any side effects, be sure to report them to your doctor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m new here and already posting too many questions but I’m very > bothered by what I "really need", so please bear with me and help me > find the most possible solution. >     OK, I have heard from a lot of people that Paxil does in fact work > very well but causes fatigue and sexual side effects (at least in men) > regardless of the duration you’ve been taking it. My biggest side effect > problem now is the sexual because of the almost impossibility of gaining > an orgasm. It is like an act of congress to concentrate hard enough to > climax on this stuff. My sexual desire however isn’t being affected > detrimentally yet. And the fatigue is another big problem. >     On valium, I figured I could just take it when a certain situation > is upcoming and be relaxed for that situation. This way (it seems to me) > I wouldn’t have the side effects to deal with that Paxil brings. > I truly want to be happy and maybe I will, in fact, simply have to > sacrifice bad orgasms, faitgue and nausea with ultimate happiness. > Please help me if any of you have any suggestions for I am listening > wholeheartedly. Thank You.

Response:

I just wanted to ask everyone about how long does it take for the Paxil to start working for a person to notice a small decrease in anxiety? I’m now on my 9th day and the doctor told me that I will start seeing a difference in 2 weeks and I was just wondering if anyone from the group has taken it before and can give me an estimation?     Also, when it does start working, is it like a life changing feeling… i.e.: No more fear of getting things done in front of strangers? Thanks.

Response:

It does took just over 2 weeks for me and then it got better. After that it WAS a life changing experience. I never regretted taking it even though I have changed meds since then. I went from terrified of doing much except for being quiet and staying at home to being quite social and having friends. I even got my eyebrow and tongue pierced…..which I had been wanting to do for a long time but was too shy and socially withdrawn to do. wreck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to ask everyone about how long does it take for the Paxil to > start working for a person to notice a small decrease in anxiety? I’m now on > my 9th day and the doctor told me that I will start seeing a difference in 2 > weeks and I was just wondering if anyone from the group has taken it before > and can give me an estimation? >     Also, when it does start working, is it like a life changing feeling… > i.e.: No more fear of getting things done in front of strangers? Thanks.

Response:

About 2 or 3 weeks for me too.  I don’t know if it will absolutely remove that fear you mentioned, but it might minimize it a bit.  For me, it basically "took the edge off" of things. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to ask everyone about how long does it take for the > Paxil to start working for a person to notice a small decrease in > anxiety? I’m now on my 9th day and the doctor told me that I will > start seeing a difference in 2 weeks and I was just wondering if > anyone from the group has taken it before and can give me an > estimation?     Also, when it does start working, is it like a life > changing feeling… i.e.: No more fear of getting things done in > front of strangers? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Prozac Truth How to taper off medication   Quitting ssris and psychiatric medication must be done by tapering off, very slowly. Step by step instructions found on this Web Site.   How to Taper Off Prozac, Sarafem, Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and other Psychiatric Medication Read testimonials of people that have quit psychiatric medication with this method. Click Here (This page also includes recent feedback from people tapering off medication with this method) I want to hear from you. If you are using this method or not, it does help to have someone to talk with during withdrawal. Click Here to send e-mail. A change in your diet can make a change in how you feel. Click here to visit a common sense Web Site by, Dr. Hugh Mann, M.D. If you plan to change your diet while tapering, do so mildly. If you smoke or drink coffee, first taper off the medication before you quit. Your metabolism plays a major role during tapering and detox. Take the time to read Dr. Mann’s information. How to Taper Step-by-Step Recommendation Click the text below that applies to you situation: Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Currently using medication and have already started to taper You have already quit taking medication but are suffering from side effects Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Inform your doctor you wish to discontinue the medication Begin replenishing the intracellular glutathione levels in the body. This needs to be done before you begin to taper. a) Begin by increasing intracellular levels of glutathione for at least one full week before beginning the taper. Longer if necessary. I have received information from a physician that he is having people stay at this step for 8 weeks before tapering. Each individual is different. I do not feel that an arbitrary amount of time on this step is warranted. What has shown to be the most effective is staying on this step for at least one full week or until most of your side effects are gone or nearly gone AND YOU FEEL VERY STABLE. You should not begin to taper off the medication until all or nearly all of your current side effects are gone. Getting yourself very stable before tapering is critical. If you are getting the