SSRIs

Question:

>of this:

Wherever You Go (by Clint Black and Hayden Nicholas) Bottle of Prozac not very smooth Like snake bite cure from the medicine man Not bad poison if there’s something to soothe It’s a whole other world in the palm of your hand Out of this world and out of your mind Just like it don’t matter what you’re leaving behind Trying to change your life you change your point of view But no matter what you do it’s the same old you Wherever you go there you are You can run from yourself but you won’t get far You can dive to the bottom of your medicine jar But wherever you go there you are Bottle of scotch whiskey whatever you find When you’re out on a wire it’s a matter of time Changing every moment when you’re taking the fall There’s everything to gain when you’re losing it all Feel your head spinning with your feet on the ground You climb the wrong ladder and it’s keeping you down Think you’re gettin’ higher but you’re still layin’ low You don’t want to be anyone you know Repeat Chorus Once you’ve been bitten it’s like crossing a line It’s a part of the plan all that’s on your mind Think that it’ll help you find somebody to be But the man in the mirror is all you’ll see Repeat Chorus — DSM IV is the fabrication upon which psychiatry seeks acceptance by medicine in general. Insiders know it is more a political than scientific document. To its credit it says so –Loren R. Mosher, M.D.

Response:

Blah blah blah.. crawl back into your cave loser.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Well well well, if it isn’t Shawnee Vetter, posing as George, the last >of many persona she uses because she can’t fight her own fights. I see >you have started impersonating me again too. >Thanks for posting your pictures. You are uglier than I thought. Great >pig tails though. >If you are so much better, why don’t you get a life and leave ASDM >alone? Maybe it is because you are not better at all. Of course you >have to have a true biological based mental illness for the docs to >help you. I can understand why you hate pdocs so bad. They couldn’t >cure what you don’t have; right? >As to this child molester, Scott, why don’t you get your facts >straight, and you will never get the straight facts from Hoyt. He is >the one that "raised" Scott from an early age, and it was he that >Scott tried to keep me away from. He hated Hoyt and he claimed things >about him that I tend to believe now. I only knew Scott a few years >and was trying to get rid of him when he was arrested and I found out >about what he was accused of. >You might want to get Scott’s last name right. It would help your >credibility some. (not much) These continued attacks do little for it >either. >If you really want to be well, you need to leave here. If you can >really survive without pdoc’s meds, I am glad for you, but you will >not really be well until you shed this hate you have for pdocs and >everyone that finds relief from going to see them. >The replies you post here reflect your view which is unsupportable. >You try to find supporting information, and are forced to twist what >you find to meet your needs. When someone calls you on it, you ignore >them or insult them. Just go away Shawnee. You will be much better off >that way. I still wish you well. >HoP >informed me of this: >< >< ><well well well it’s head case dog killer oxy addict faggot pUal >montgomery popped it to ><take a shit. >< ><Hows your best butt buddy Scott Lang?  I suppose he’s not too >interested in you now that ><he’s finally been busted for child rape. >< ><When is your court date Pauly? >< >< ><>of this: ><> ><><. And again, your retort ><><that I do my own research makes me think that your claim that ><><anti-depressant use will make BP worse over time is pure bunk. ><> ><>This person has personal reasons for their views. Many times they >cite ><>stuff as supporting their views, but if you check, they have grossly ><>misinterpreted the source or use a few sources that agree with them. ><>There is no indication that using antidepressants make the course of ><>bp worse. The articles cited do indicate that bipolars should not >use ><>antidepressants without first establishing a stable mood using ><>traditional mood stabilizers like lithium or depakote. ><> ><>BTW, this person is posting under many different nicknames.

Response:

hi Anna,my name is Dawn and I am bipolar,I can talk anytime if you like.I take effexer,and I took neurontin for years,my bipolar got worse last year,I had a major depression,the way I cope now is try not to think so much,and it is still a constant struggle but maybe we can help eachother if you like.let me know.

Response:

effexor and nuerontin are not mood stabilizers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >hi Anna,my name is Dawn and I am bipolar,I can talk anytime if you like.I >take effexer,and I took neurontin for years,my bipolar got worse last year,I >had a major depression,the way I cope now is try not to think so much,and it >is still a constant struggle but maybe we can help eachother if you like.let >me know.

Response:

well well well it’s head case dog killer oxy addict faggot pUal montgomery popped it to take a shit. Hows your best butt buddy Scott Lang?  I suppose he’s not too interested in you now that he’s finally been busted for child rape. When is your court date Pauly? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >of this: ><. And again, your retort ><that I do my own research makes me think that your claim that ><anti-depressant use will make BP worse over time is pure bunk. >This person has personal reasons for their views. Many times they cite >stuff as supporting their views, but if you check, they have grossly >misinterpreted the source or use a few sources that agree with them. >There is no indication that using antidepressants make the course of >bp worse. The articles cited do indicate that bipolars should not use >antidepressants without first establishing a stable mood using >traditional mood stabilizers like lithium or depakote. >BTW, this person is posting under many different nicknames.

Response:

Newsgroups: tacoma.general View: Complete Thread (4 articles) | Original Format National Enquirer? says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is just another reason to read Usenet.  Where else can such gems of > wisdom and truth be found? > If you haven’t been paying attention the last 400 or so odd years, its > too late now to try and catch up. Don’t come crying to this group when > you find the Shuler Clan stealing your property. Sheesh! > says… > > WTF? > > > The past actions of the Shuler clan have forced me to post this > > > weekly warning. > > > Beware of the Shuler clan for they will try to steal your land! > > > My ancestors the brothers Michael and Peter Lycon who were both born > > > in Varmland Sweden were among the first Swedish settlers in the New > > > Sweden Colony at Shackamaxon.  They arrived in the Philadelphia area > > > between 1650 and 1655.  Later the colony taken over by the evil > > > Pennsylvania Dutch. (This must have been the Shuler Clan) > > > ( By the way the http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm > > > Pennsylvania Dutch are not from Holland.  They just pretend to be. But > > > my Dutch Ancestors were from Holland. ) > > >  But that was not enough for the evil Shuler clan no!  Those > > > troublesome Shulers  follow us every where and steal our land.  It is > > > known that http://www.concentric.net/~Ssbray/shuler.htm the evil > > > Shulers moved into lands of my Cherokee ancestors after the forced > > > removal of the Cherokee and made their selves at home. > > > It all started in January 1674 when they tried to steal the land of my > > > first Dutch ancestor to visit turtle island.  My ancestor had the misfortune of being the > > > next door neighbor of a certain Evil Capt. Shuler.  The matter was > > > turned over to Commandant Drayer and Mr. Jeremias Van Renselaer. > > > The Shulers idea of a good time is to go find the most beautiful and > > > sacred oak tree in smokey mountains (the ancestral home of the > > > Cherokee) and then murder it.  Surely they knew that Oak trees are > > > sacred to the Cherokee. > > > Click here to learn more about the evil acts of the squatting, tree > > > chopping, tavern owning, land stealing Shuler clan > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RSchuler/Gabriel.htm > > > My ancestors fled to the West coast to get away from the evil Shuler > > > clan but true to their form the Shulers followed us. > > >   I bet it was not really the French and indians who > > > burned Schenectady to the ground in 1685 and kidnapped > > > my grandpa . I bet it was really the evil Shuler clan > > > dressed up like and pretending to be French Indians! > > > In addition to the soldiers in the fort those recorded as being killed > > > in the > > > massacre were: Mystery Weep, Jan Dirk se Van Epsom and three children, > > > Barest > > > Jan se Van Disbars and his son, Cornetist, An dries Arenas Bract and > > > one child, > > > Maria Viewed (wife of Doug Aukes),two children, Mary Aloff(wife of > > > Cornetist > > > Viewed, Jr.) Swear Tektites Van Velvet, his wife, Anthem Jan se Spoor, > > > Headlock > > > Meeker Romania, Bartholomew Romania (father and brother of Adam), > > > Gerbil Marseilles, wife and child, Robert Henpecking, Sander Van > > > Braked, > > > Jan Recourses, David Christianizes, his wife and four children, Cories > > > Aerobe Van > > > derby Bast, Willed Pie terse, Jan Poet man and wife, Domineer > > > Thiabendazole, > > > Frags Hardens Van de Bogart, Envelope Romania and infant child, Review > > > Shafts and son, Johannes son of Synonym Schermerhoorn.

Google Home – Advertise with Us – Search Solutions – News and Resources – Language Tools – Jobs, Press, Cool Stuff…

Question:

Id try it, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  Printer Friendly  Send to a Friend > FDA Approves Lexapro as Newest Antidepressant > NYC company offers a re-engineered version of Celexa > By Bruce Sylvester > HealthScoutNews Reporter > THURSDAY, Aug. 15 (HealthScoutNews) — From one antidepressant a more > powerful one has sprung. > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) today approved the drug > Lexapro as a treatment for major depression. Interestingly, this > latest entry into the antidepressant market resulted from a molecular > re-engineering of the popular antidepressant Celexa. > Lexapro (escitalopram) is the first antidepressant to get the FDA’s > nod since Celexa (citalopram) won approval four years ago. Both are > made by Forest Laboratories of New York City and both are SSRIs > (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) like their cousins Prozac, > Zoloft and Paxil. > "Lexapro is a more potent version of Celexa, in that the component > that fights depression has been isolated," says Talia Puzantian, a > clinical pharmacist in psychiatry at San Francisco General Hospital. > This means patients will only need 10 milligrams to 20 milligrams a > day of Lexapro, half of what is generally used with Celexa, Puzantian > adds. > The Celexa molecule contains two "mirror" parts called isomers, but > only one isomer helps fight depression. Researchers created Lexapro by > removing the inactive isomer. > Celexa’s patent does not run out until late 2005. However, the company > decided to seek FDA approval for Lexapro and market it as soon as > possible. > "Forest is taking a successful $1.4 billion dollar-a-year drug, > Celexa, out of active marketing three years before the patent > expires," says Andrew Farah, a psychiatrist and medical director of > High Point Regional Hospital in High Point, N.C. "They are replacing > it with a drug that is costing them more to make, but for which they > plan to charge less." > "Lexapro is stronger, starts working faster and appears to have a > lower side-effect profile. They could have held off on Lexapro, and > made their billions off of Celexa first. But that isn’t happening > here, and the implications, especially in terms of potency, side > effects and costs, could be huge for patients," he adds. > Farah notes the decision was driven by Howard Soloman, chief executive > officer of Forest, whose son, Andrew, suffered from debilitating > depression. The Solomans have publicly discussed the impact of the > disease on their family life and on their business priorities, mot > notably in a Business Week cover story in May. > Andrew Soloman emerged from the worst of his depression after several > months of treatment with Cipramil, the European version of Celexa. He > wrote a book about his struggle with the disease, The Noonday Demon: > An Atlas of Depression, which was published in June 2001 and won the > National Book Award for nonfiction. > "This will probably be a successful business decision by Forest, but > it wouldn’t be happening at all if Howard Solomon hadn’t gone to > Europe in the mid-1990s, searched for a better drug for his son, found > the European version of Celexa, licensed it for the U.S. market and > introduced it here," Farah says. > Three European and U.S. studies presented at the Anxiety Disorders > Association of America annual meeting in March also suggest that > today’s FDA approval could herald future indications for Lexapro. > A Duke University clinical study reported that, "Escitalopram > (Lexapro) treatment significantly improved anxiety symptoms relative > to placebo treatment. The reliable anti-anxiety effects of this new > drug suggest that it should be useful in the treatment of generalized > anxiety disorder." > A study conducted at the University Hospital of Vienna concluded, > "Escitalopram (Lexapro) 10-20mg/day is effective and well-tolerated in > the treatment of social anxiety disorder." > Finally, a University of California at San Diego study reported that, > "Escitalopram (Lexapro) in comparison to placebo significantly reduced > panic attack frequency and severity, anticipatory anxiety and phobic > avoidance, and significantly improved overall clinical status and > quality of life. The results of this study suggest that escitalopram > is efficacious and well-tolerated in the treatment of panic disorder." > Approximately 19 million adult Americans suffer from a depressive > illness each year. One of every four women and one in 10 men in the > United States will be diagnosed with depression during their lifetime. > The World Health Organization predicts depression will become the > leading cause of disability by the year 2020. > Forest Laboratories expects Lexapro to be available in pharmacies by > Sept. 5.

Response:

Are they as good as the pills a person can find in the gutter from time to time on the down town streets? Sometimes they are black, but if you scrape off the dirt, they are a different color. Sometimes they are m&m tasting.  hmmm.  do they make chocolate flavored ssri pillz? Oh, no.  that is the trouble. i have been taking chocolate instead of drugz…

: :  Printer Friendly  Send to a Friend : : : FDA Approves Lexapro as Newest Antidepressant : : NYC company offers a re-engineered version of Celexa : : By Bruce Sylvester : HealthScoutNews Reporter : : : : : : : THURSDAY, Aug. 15 (HealthScoutNews) — From one antidepressant a more : powerful one has sprung. : The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) today approved the drug : Lexapro as a treatment for major depression. Interestingly, this : latest entry into the antidepressant market resulted from a molecular : re-engineering of the popular antidepressant Celexa. : : Lexapro (escitalopram) is the first antidepressant to get the FDA’s : nod since Celexa (citalopram) won approval four years ago. Both are : made by Forest Laboratories of New York City and both are SSRIs : (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) like their cousins Prozac, : Zoloft and Paxil. : : "Lexapro is a more potent version of Celexa, in that the component : that fights depression has been isolated," says Talia Puzantian, a : clinical pharmacist in psychiatry at San Francisco General Hospital. : : This means patients will only need 10 milligrams to 20 milligrams a : day of Lexapro, half of what is generally used with Celexa, Puzantian : adds. : : The Celexa molecule contains two "mirror" parts called isomers, but : only one isomer helps fight depression. Researchers created Lexapro by : removing the inactive isomer. : : Celexa’s patent does not run out until late 2005. However, the company : decided to seek FDA approval for Lexapro and market it as soon as : possible. : : "Forest is taking a successful $1.4 billion dollar-a-year drug, : Celexa, out of active marketing three years before the patent : expires," says Andrew Farah, a psychiatrist and medical director of : High Point Regional Hospital in High Point, N.C. "They are replacing : it with a drug that is costing them more to make, but for which they : plan to charge less." : : "Lexapro is stronger, starts working faster and appears to have a : lower side-effect profile. They could have held off on Lexapro, and : made their billions off of Celexa first. But that isn’t happening : here, and the implications, especially in terms of potency, side : effects and costs, could be huge for patients," he adds. : : Farah notes the decision was driven by Howard Soloman, chief executive : officer of Forest, whose son, Andrew, suffered from debilitating : depression. The Solomans have publicly discussed the impact of the : disease on their family life and on their business priorities, mot : notably in a Business Week cover story in May. : : Andrew Soloman emerged from the worst of his depression after several : months of treatment with Cipramil, the European version of Celexa. He : wrote a book about his struggle with the disease, The Noonday Demon: : An Atlas of Depression, which was published in June 2001 and won the : National Book Award for nonfiction. : : "This will probably be a successful business decision by Forest, but : it wouldn’t be happening at all if Howard Solomon hadn’t gone to : Europe in the mid-1990s, searched for a better drug for his son, found : the European version of Celexa, licensed it for the U.S. market and : introduced it here," Farah says. : : Three European and U.S. studies presented at the Anxiety Disorders : Association of America annual meeting in March also suggest that : today’s FDA approval could herald future indications for Lexapro. : : A Duke University clinical study reported that, "Escitalopram : (Lexapro) treatment significantly improved anxiety symptoms relative : to placebo treatment. The reliable anti-anxiety effects of this new : drug suggest that it should be useful in the treatment of generalized : anxiety disorder." : : A study conducted at the University Hospital of Vienna concluded, : "Escitalopram (Lexapro) 10-20mg/day is effective and well-tolerated in : the treatment of social anxiety disorder." : : Finally, a University of California at San Diego study reported that, : "Escitalopram (Lexapro) in comparison to placebo significantly reduced : panic attack frequency and severity, anticipatory anxiety and phobic : avoidance, and significantly improved overall clinical status and : quality of life. The results of this study suggest that escitalopram : is efficacious and well-tolerated in the treatment of panic disorder." : : Approximately 19 million adult Americans suffer from a depressive : illness each year. One of every four women and one in 10 men in the : United States will be diagnosed with depression during their lifetime. : The World Health Organization predicts depression will become the : leading cause of disability by the year 2020. : : Forest Laboratories expects Lexapro to be available in pharmacies by : Sept. 5. : : :

Response:

Question:

Psychiatric Drug Facts Peter R. Breggin, M.D. Judges Reduce Sentences in Latest Paxil and Prozac

Question:

>All this "science", and one still has to play hit or >miss with meds. Welcome to the real world. >Science is an attempt to understand and >control >the world, and the mind; looking for the inner >thetan or counting chicken bones, has not >been >competitive. >Squiggles

"The purpose of "Science" is to devolop without prejudice or preconception of any kind a knowledge of the facts, the laws and the processes of nature. The laws of nature are the rules of existence, actions and relations, where God has endowed animate and inanimate matter by giving it various properties, as essential to its varing constitution and as regulating its existence, actions and relations. It is erroneous in this imperfect earth and universe to speak of fixed and eternally unchngeable laws of nature." Paul S. L. Johnson (1938)

Response:

> >You allow yourself to fear death! > What’s wrong with embracing death?

– We are not so powerful as to embrace death; sometimes it embraces us. Squiggles

Response:

> >> Is the mind even meant to be "controlled"? >Absolutely – unless you like running around like >a raving lunatic, and slaughtering millions of >innocent people, like some great charismatic leaders >have done – I think you can name them. > Actually, people with their mind controlled do slaughter innocent > people. See religion.

If you mean "drugged" by controlled, which is what you originally used the word for in the previous message, undrugged insanity is more dangerous than drugged insanity. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > wrote the following: >>> Is the mind even meant to be "controlled"? >>Absolutely – unless you like running around like >>a raving lunatic, and slaughtering millions of >>innocent people, like some great charismatic leaders >>have done – I think you can name them. > Actually, people with their mind controlled do slaughter innocent > people. See religion. > This mailbomber guy had some issues: > Text of note left with bombs in Illinois, Iowa > Following is the letter attached to pipe bombs left in mailboxes in > Iowa and Illinois. Spelling and punctuation errors are preserved from > the original: > Mailboxes are exploding! Why, you ask? > Attention people. > You do things because you can and want (desire) to > If the government controls what you want to do, they control what you > can do. > If you are under the impression that death exists, and you fear it, you > do anything to avoid it. (This is the same way pain operates. Naturally > we strive to avoid negative emotion/pain.) > You allow yourself to fear death! > World authorities allowed, and still allow you to fear death! > In avoiding death you are forced to conform, if you fail to conform, > you suffer mentally and physically. (Are world powers utilizing the > natural survival instinct in a way that allows them to capitalize on > the people?) > To ?live? (avoid death) in this society you are forced to conform/slave > away. > I?m here to help you realize/ understand that you will live no matter > what! It is up to you people to open your hearts and minds. There is no > such thing as death. The people I?ve dismissed from this reality are > not at all dead. > Conforming to the boundaries, and restrictions imposed by the > government only reduces the substance in your lives. When 1% of the > nation controls 99% of the nations total wealth, is it a wonder why > there are control problems? > The United States strives to provide freedom for their people. Do we > really have personal freedom? I?ve lived here for many years, and I see > much limitation. Does the definition of freedom include limitation? > I?ve learned about the history of various civilizations in history, and > I see more and more limitation. Do you people enjoy this trend of > limitation? If not, change it! > As long as you are uninformed about death you will continue to say ?how > high?, when the government tells you to ?jump?. As long as the > government is uninformed about death they will continue tell you to > ?jump? Is the government uninformed about death, or are they > pretending? > You have been missing how things are, for very long. I?m obtaining your > attention in the only way I can. More info is on its way. More > ?attention getters? are on the way. If I could, I would change only one > person, unfortunately the resources are not accessible. It seems > killing a single famous person would get the same media attention as > killing numerous un-famous humans. There is less risk of being > detained, associated with dismissing certain people. > Sincerely, > Someone Who Cares > PS. More info. will be delivered to various locations around the > country. > — >

Question:

Depression Meds: Rigging the definition to boost profits New Statesman (London) 11 March 2002 The  New  Statesman  Special  Report  -  The  rebranding  of a disease Should  we  trust  the scientific data on the effects of drugs? Not if the case of depression, for which pharmaceutical companies found a new definition, is anything to go by. Jerome Burne reports If  the  directors  of drug companies are in the habit of taking their own   medicines,   then   consumption  of  anti-depressants  in  their boardrooms should have soared last month. Not least to show solidarity in  the  face  of  growing  concerns  that Prozac-type anti-depression drugs,  one  of the biggest pharmaceutical success stories of the past decade, may be not only dangerous to some, but also addictive. The magazine Health, Which came out with a warning that patients being offered  anti-depressants  were  often  not told "about issues such as withdrawal  problems  or  .  . . a possible risk of increased suicidal behaviour",   and  the  Royal  College  of  Psychiatrists  issued  new guidelines,  saying  that  only 50 per cent of patients would be "much improved" after taking anti-depressants, which is little better than a placebo.  Meanwhile,  in the United States, the issue of addiction was highlighted  when the Food and Drug Administration ordered the company GlaxoSmithKline to warn doctors prescribing the drug Seroxat about the possibility of dependency. The company was also found in breach of the industry code by describing problems with withdrawal as "very rare". All of this came in the wake of a court case last June, brought by the family  of  a  man  who,  a  few  days after being put on the drug for sleeping  problems,  had shot his daughter, his grandchildren and then himself. The court agreed with the family’s claim that Seroxat (one of a  class of drugs known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs)  had contributed to his behaviour, and awarded them $6.4m. This was  the  second case linking SSRIs with suicide to come to court, but more than 200 have been settled out of court. What  makes  this all the more alarming is that the drugs involved are so widely used – prescriptions for all SSRIs in the UK run at about 10 million.  They  are  increasingly  prescribed  for  a  wide variety of conditions,  such  as  skin complaints, pre- menstrual tension, weight loss  and  attention-deficit  disorder.  But  it  also raises the more important  and  wider question: can we trust the drug companies? Or is there  a  strong possibility that their business practices could leave both  doctors  and  patients  with  no way of telling just how safe or effective our medications are? When  it  comes  to  spin, the drug companies make the government look clumsy  and  amateurish. At the heart of the worries over SSRIs is the growing  belief  that the drug companies have been less than honest in their account of the risks involved. But it is not just SSRIs that are given  a  positive  gloss  when  the evidence points the other way. In January, for instance, Swiss prosecutors began a criminal inquiry into the pharmaceutical giant Bayer AG, "on suspicion of fraud and grievous bodily  damage",  following  the  recall last year of the cholesterol- lowering  drug  cerivastatin (otherwise known as Lipobay in Europe and Baycol  in  the US). The prosecutors are accusing Bayer of suppressing vital  information about the drug’s potentially fatal interaction with another drug, which has been linked to more than 50 deaths. Could  the  drug companies do such a thing? The editors of the world’s top  11  medical  journals,  including the Lancet, the British Medical Journal  and  the New England Journal of Medicine, certainly think so. Last September, the International Committee of Medical Journal Editors issued  a  joint  statement  calling for more openness in the way drug companies report their results and less readiness to hide unfavourable ones.  The  editors  declared  that  they will now "require authors to attest that they had full access to all of the data in [a] study and . .  .  [to]  take complete responsibility for the integrity of the data and the accuracy of the data analysis". The  point  about  having "full access to all of the data" is crucial, because  it  lies  at  the root of how science works. Only if they can look at the raw data are other scientists able to judge how reasonable is the interpretation. But all too often, the results from drug trials are  presented  in  the  form of tables, and the drug companies refuse access  to  the  raw  data  on  the  grounds  that  it is commercially sensitive. However,  the  concerns  of  the  journal  editors  on this point were clearly  not  enough.  In  February,  the  UK’s  National Institute of Clinical   Excellence   (Nice)   claimed  that  "drug  companies  have successfully  withheld important data". Gauging the efficacy of a drug is  fraught  with  problems, declared Dr Iain Chalmers of the Cochrane Centre,  an  organisation  set  up to evaluate the efficacy of medical treatments,  "because negative results are rarely published in medical journals". The moral vacuum that results from constant spinning is threatening to suck  in  not  just the academics who are paid to do the work for drug companies, but the whole process of scientific medicine. In an article last  September  entitled  "Dancing  with the porcupine", the Canadian Medical  Association Journal attempted to set out some principles that ought  to  apply  when pharmaceutical companies are funding academics. The  authors  start  by recognising that such alliances are inherently tricky:  "The  duty of the universities is to seek the truth. The duty of  the  pharmaceutical  companies is to make money." But, and this is the  important  bit,  "if  either abandons its fundamental mission, it ultimately  fails".  A broke drug company or a discredited academic is no use to anyone. The  attempt to hammer out some sort of guidelines was set against the background of at least two highly publicised Canadian cases where drug companies   had  used  "intimidating  tactics"  that  had  "profoundly affected"  researchers’ lives. One involved a lawsuit by Bristol-Myers Squibb against the Canadian Co-ordinating Office for Health Technology Assessment  to  suppress  a  report  on the cholesterol-lowering drugs statins.  The  other  was  the  legal  threat by AstraZeneca against a researcher   at  Ontario’s  McMaster  University  for  her  review  of medications for stomach disorders. Even  if  matters  don’t  get  as far as the courts, "industry funding creates  an  incentive  to  promote  the  positive  and  suppress  the negative",  says  the  journal.  An  example is the "landmark article" showing  that  industry-sponsored research into certain heart drugs is more likely to be supportive of their use than is independently funded research.  The  conclusion  argues  for the drawing up of some sort of industry/university  contract  containing clauses giving academics the right  to "disclose potentially harmful clinical effects immediately", for  a  surcharge  on  contracts  to  fund  a regulatory body, for the setting up of an ombudsman, and so on. All  very  well  and good, but getting regulatory bodies to respond to concerns  about  some drugs can be hard work. That, at least, has been the experience of the psychiatrist Dr David Healy who, since 1999, has been  engaged  in  extensive  correspondence  with  the UK’s Medicines Control  Agency  (MCA)  over  the  links  between  SSRIs,  suicide and addiction.  Their exchange of letters now runs to more than 100 pages, with  the  majority  of  that coming from Healy. As of last month, the agency’s  position  is that there is no cause for concern and that all the warnings that are needed are in place. What  makes  Healy’s  campaign  of particular interest is, first, that he’s  no maverick, driven by a belief in herbs or the healing power of madness.  He  is  a mainstream biological psychiatrist and director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine in Bangor, he has written   a   highly  acclaimed  history  of  anti-depressants  -  The Anti-depressant Era, published by Harvard University Press – and he is the  author  of  more  than 100 scientific papers. But he is concerned that  patients  and  the profession are not being told the truth about the risks. His  campaign also gains added weight from his experience as an expert witness  in two American court cases involving suicide and SSRIs. As a result,  he has seen previously unpublished data on trials carried out by  the  drug  companies  on  healthy  volunteers. His analysis of the secret  data,  the sort that drug companies usually refuse to release, shows  that about 25 per cent of healthy volunteers given the drug had some  sort  of  unpleasant psychological reaction. "That suggests that the  likelihood of someone committing suicide during their first month of  treatment  with  Prozac  is  ten  times  greater than if they were untreated,"  he  says.  "That is a level of risk approaching that of a smoker’s likelihood of developing lung cancer." This  suggests  an astonishing gap between what the drug companies say publicly  and what their own data shows. As a striking illustration of this gap between secret and public knowledge, Healy is fond of quoting a  story  from an American newspaper, the Boston Globe, which appeared in May 2000. It concerned a new form of Prozac, known as R-fluoxetine, which had been patented in 1993 (US patent no 5,708,035) and which Eli Lilly  planned  to  market when the existing patent ran out in 2002. A patent  application  requires  that you say why your new version is an improvement.  So  what were the benefits of R-fluoxetine? "It will not produce several existing side effects, including akathsia [agitation], suicidal thoughts and self-mutilation . . . one of its [Prozac's] more … read more »

Response:

> Depression Meds: Rigging the definition to boost profits > New Statesman (London) > 11 March 2002 > The  New  Statesman  Special  Report  -  The  rebranding  of a disease

Very good article – thank you – hope it gets replays Squiggles

Response:

Question:

LABEL CHANGES: The most recently approved FDA precaution on Paxil recommends close monitoring and gradual, rather than, abrupt discontinuation of the antidepressant. Excerpt from FDA revised label approved on December 14, 2001, "Patients should be monitored for these symptoms when discontinuing treatment, regardless of the indication for which Paxil is being prescribed. A gradual reduction in the dose rather than abrupt cessation is recommended whenever possible." Karen Barth, one of the lead attorneys representing hundreds of victims suffering dependency/withdrawal syndrome from Paxil states, "Our effort to get the Paxil warning label revised to reflect the truth about the withdrawal problems with Paxil began back in August 2000. That is when we joined attorney Don Farber in filing a lawsuit in an effort to force SmithKline Beecham to revise the label for Paxil. Although the language in the revised label, in our view, should be stronger, we feel the new language is a definite step in the right direction and we feel vindicated in our efforts." PAXIL WITHDRAWAL LAWSUIT:      January 25, 2002      FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE      Baum, Hedlund, Aristei, Guilford & Schiavo      12100 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 950      Los Angeles, CA      Web: www.baumhedlundlaw.com 17 INDIVIDUALS FILE FIRST (NON-CLASS ACTION) LAWSUIT SEEKING DAMAGES AGAINST SMITHKILINE BEECHAM FOR SEVERE WITHDRAWAL REACTIONS FROM THE ANTIDEPRESSANT, PAXIL      Los Angeles, January 25, 2002 – - 17 people who have suffered from severe      withdrawal reactions as a result of taking the antidepressant Paxil, filed      a lawsuit late yesterday in California Superior Court, LA County, against      SmithKline Beecham (SKB). This is the first individual lawsuit (as opposed      to class action) that has been filed against SKB by individuals related      to Paxil’s withdrawal side effects      Class action lawsuits have been cropping up across the country related to      Paxil withdrawal ever since attorneys Karen Barth and Mary Schiavo of Baum,      Hedlund, Aristei, Guilford & Schiavo, based in Los Angeles, California,      and Donald Farber of San Rafael, California, filed their first class action      against the drug maker on August 24, 2001. After filing that lawsuit, the Baum Hedlund and Farber firms were deluged with calls from victims from all over the country. Over 3,000 people contacted Baum Hedlund alone seeking help. The Plaintiffs in this new action come from all walks of life. Of the 17 individually named Plaintiffs, one is a research doctor and another is a pharmacist. The Plaintiffs are individuals who wanted to bring their own individual actions against SKB because of the severity of their withdrawal problems. Most of them continue taking the drug because they have been unable to get off the drug. Some have lost their jobs. Each has experienced similar severe withdrawal reactions and problems such as:        jolting electric "zaps," dizziness, light-headedness, vertigo, in-coordination,        gait disturbances, sweating, extreme nausea, vomiting, high fever, abdominal        discomfort, flu symptoms, anorexia, diarrhea, agitation, tremulousness,        irritability, aggression, sleep disturbance, nightmares, tremor, confusion,        memory and concentration difficulties, lethargy, malaise, weakness, fatigue,        paraesthesias, ataxia, and/or myalgia. Paxil was introduced into the U.S. market on December 29, 1992, and is a well-known antidepressant medication in the same class as Zoloft and Prozac (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or "SSRIs"). Paxil is approved for marketing in the U.S. for conditions such as depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, and "social anxiety disorder" (often described as "shyness"). On December 14, 2001, the FDA granted SKB’s request to be allowed to market Paxil for two new indications, "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" and "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder." However, in addition to the new indications, SKB will be required to provide stronger warnings regarding Paxil’s withdrawal problems. For instance, the new label will include language such as:        "Patients should be monitored for these symptoms [dizziness, sensory        disturbances (e.g., paresthesias such as electric shock sensations), agitation,        anxiety, nausea, and sweating] when discontinuing treatment, regardless        of the indication for which Paxil is being prescribed. A gradual reduction        in the dose rather than abrupt cessation is recommended whenever possible.        If intolerable symptoms occur following a decrease in the dose or upon        discontinuation of treatment, then resuming the previously prescribed        dose may be considered. Subsequently, the physician may continue decreasing        the dose but at a more gradual rate (see DOSAGE and ADMINISTRATION)." Attorney, Karen Barth, stated, "I get outraged every time I see one of SmithKline Beecham’s television commercials which states that Paxil is ‘non-habit-forming.’ SmithKline Beecham walks a fine semantic line and the company knows that this language placates the public concerned with the prospect of taking a drug they might get hooked on. According to the World Health Organization, drug dependence is defined as: ‘a need for repeated doses of the drug to feel good or to avoid feeling bad.’ (WHO, Lexicon of alcohol and drug terms, 1994.) That is exactly what our clients suffer."

Response:

> > Attorney, Karen Barth, stated, "I get outraged every time I see one of > SmithKline Beecham’s television commercials which states that Paxil is > ‘non-habit-forming.’ > So do I get outraged..everytime I hear that commercial…How dare they…say > that!

Paxil isn’t habit-forming; though it does certainly have an effect on me. <snip> >  when I am feeling a certain way… down on myself..  feeling a lot of pain > inside.. I find myself really vexed,  as well,   by this craving for Paxil > to make painful feelings stop,  now even 18 months later..

So when you feel very depressed, you think it might be a good idea to take an anti-depressant so that you won’t feel depressed anymore? Sounds pretty reasonable to me. When I feel very shaky and I know my blood sugar is low, I have a craving to eat something to make that feeling/sensation stop. No matter how many times I’ve tried, or how hard I’ve tried, I haven’t yet been able to give up eating. > can you imagine…having thoughts to take a substance did so many bad things > to you….what else could that possibly be about…excpet a drug > dependency…. > It causes a drug dependency,  and they can play semantics all they want..but > that shit is worse than habit forming….its addicting

Addicting? How? I feel no need to increase the dose constantly. I can stop taking it any time I want to. I find the need to eat regularly much more habit forming and addicting. And all those years my diabetic friend has been using insulin, talk about an addictive and habit forming drug! > only people who know it are people who used it and other psychotropics  and > then stopped ALL psychotropic meds. altogehter I bet… >  people use Paxil..then go on to use something stronger and stronger.  to > make them continue to stop feeling..wouldnt know it..

I feel more like myself and much more normal emotions when I’m taking Paxil. I don’t see where you get this idea of going on to something stronger. > they been insidiously made junkees, by meds they took to help them…not > make them junkies! > Its outrageous! .

Oh, the horrors! > mithKline Beecham walks a fine semantic line and the > company knows that this language placates the public concerned with the > prospect of taking a drug they might get hooked on. According to the World > Health Organization, drug dependence is defined as: ‘a need for repeated > doses of the drug to feel good or to avoid feeling bad.’ (WHO, Lexicon of > alcohol and drug terms, 1994.) That is exactly what our clients suffer."

Well, yes, this is exactly what I have — if I don’t take Paxil or some other anti-depressant then I feel very bad. It’s because I have depression, what an amazing coincidence. By this reasoning and wording, insulin is a dangerously addictive drug for diabetics! Fiona yes, I know I’m talking to a wall here — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

>> > Attorney, Karen Barth, stated, "I get outraged every time I see one of > > SmithKline Beecham’s television commercials which states that Paxil is > > ‘non-habit-forming.’ > So do I get outraged..everytime I hear that commercial…How dare they…say > that! >Paxil isn’t habit-forming; though it does certainly have an effect on >me.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=paxil+addiction&btnG=Google+Search a bare faced liar or selfdeluded? You decide http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/ssri000524.html  Doctors and Patients Unaware of Withdrawal Side Effects Click here to find out more about U.S prescribing patterns for serotonin boosters Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft, and for information about withdrawal symptoms from these drugs. (Pat Wellenbach/AP Photo) By Robin Eisner N E W   Y O R K, May 24

Question:

From National Institute of Mental Health Depression Can Break Your Heart Research over the past two decades has shown that depression and heart disease are common companions and, what is worse, each can lead to the other. It appears now that depression is an important risk factor for heart disease along with high blood cholesterol and high blood pressure. A study conducted in Baltimore, MD found that of 1,551 people who were free of heart disease, those who had a history of depression were 4 times more likely than those who did not to suffer a heart attack in the next 14 years.1 In addition, researchers in Montreal, Canada found that  heart patients who were depressed were 4 times as likely to die in the next 6 months as those who were not depressed. 2 Depression may make it harder to take the medications needed and to carry out the treatment for heart disease.3 Depression also may result in chronically elevated levels of stress hormones, such as cortisol and adrenaline, and the activation of the sympathetic nervous system (part of the "fight or flight" response), which can have deleterious effects on the heart.4 The first studies of heart disease and depression found that people with heart disease were more likely to suffer from depression than otherwise healthy people.4 While about 1 in 20 American adults experience major depression in a given year, the number goes to about 1 in 3 for people who have survived a heart attack.5,6 Furthermore, other researchers have found that most heart patients with depression do not receive appropriate treatment. Cardiologists and primary care physicians tend to miss the diagnosis of depression;4 and even when they do recognize it, they often do not treat it adequately.7 The public health impact of depression and heart disease, both separately and together, is enormous. Depression is the estimated leading cause of disability worldwide 8, and heart disease is by far the leading cause of death in the United States.9 Approximately 1 in 3 Americans will die of some form of heart disease. Studies indicate that depression can appear after heart disease and/or heart disease surgery. In one investigation, nearly half of the patients studied one week after cardiopulmonary bypass surgery experienced serious cognitive problems, which may contribute to clinical depression in some individuals.10 There are also multiple studies indicating that heart disease can follow depression.4 Psychological distress may cause rapid heartbeat, high blood pressure, and faster blood clotting. It can also lead to elevated insulin and cholesterol levels. These risk factors, with obesity, form a constellation of symptoms and often serve as a predictor of and a response to heart disease. People with depression may feel slowed down and still have high levels of stress hormones. This can increase the work of the heart. As high levels of stress hormones are signaling a "fight or flight" reaction, the body’s metabolism is diverted away from the type of tissue repair needed in heart disease. Regardless of cause, the combination of depression and heart disease is associated with increased sickness and death, making effective treatment of depression imperative. Pharmacological and cognitive-behavioral therapy treatments for depression are relatively well developed and play an important role in reducing the adverse impact of depression.4 With the advent of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors to treat depression, more medically ill patients can be treated without the complicating cardiovascular side effects of the previous drugs available. Ongoing research is investigating whether these treatments also reduce the associated risk of a second heart attack. Furthermore, preventive interventions based on cognitive-behavior theories of depression also merit attention as approaches for avoiding adverse outcomes associated with both disorders. These interventions may help promote adherence and behavior change that may increase the impact of available pharmacological and behavioral approaches to both diseases. Exercise is another potential pathway to reducing both depression and risk of heart disease. A recent study found that participation in an exercise training program was comparable to treatment with an antidepressant medication (a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) for improving depressive symptoms in older adults diagnosed with major depression.11 Exercise, of course, is a major protective factor against heart disease as well.12 The NIMH and the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute are invested in uncovering the complicated relationship between depression and heart disease. They support research on the basic mechanisms and processes linking co-occurring mental and medical disorders to identify potent, modifiable risk factors and protective processes amenable to medical and behavioral interventions that will reduce the adverse outcomes associated with both types of disorders. — — For More Information National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) Office of Communications and Public Liaison Public Inquiries: (301) 443-4513 Media Inquiries: (301) 443-4536 Web site: http://www.nimh.nih.gov National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI) Information Center Phone: (301) 592-8573 Web site: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov All material in this fact sheet is in the public domain and may be copied or reproduced without permission from the Institute. Citation of the source is appreciated. NIH Publication No. 01-4592 References 1 Pratt LA, Ford DE, Crum RM, et al. Depression, psychotropic medication, and risk of myocardial infarction. Prospective data from the Baltimore ECA follow-up. Circulation, 1996; 94(12): 3123-9. 2 Frasure-Smith N, Lesperance F, Talajic M. Depression and 18-month prognosis after myocardial infarction. Circulation, 1995; 91(4): 999-1005. 3 Ziegelstein RC, Fauerbach JA, Stevens SS, et al. Patients with depression are less likely to follow recommendations to reduce cardiac risk during recovery from a myocardial infarction. Archives of Internal Medicine, 2000; 160(12): 1818-23. 4 Nemeroff CB, Musselman DL, Evans DL. Depression and cardiac disease. Depression and Anxiety, 1998; 8(Suppl 1): 71-9. 5 Regier DA, Narrow WE, Rae DS, et al. The de facto mental and addictive disorders service system. Epidemiologic Catchment Area prospective 1-year prevalence rates of disorders and services. Archives of General Psychiatry, 1993; 50(2): 85-94. 6 Lesperance F, Frasure-Smith N, Talajic M. Major depression before and after myocardial infarction: its nature and consequences. Psychosomatic Medicine, 1996; 58(2): 99-110. 7 Hirschfeld RM, Keller MB, Panico S, et al. The National Depressive and Manic-Depressive Association consensus statement on the undertreatment of depression. Journal of the American Medical Association, 1997; 277(4): 333-40. 8 Murray CJL, Lopez AD, eds. Summary: The global burden of disease: a comprehensive assessment of mortality and disability from diseases, injuries, and risk factors in 1990 and projected to 2020. Cambridge, MA: Published by the Harvard School of Public Health on behalf of the World Health Organization and the World Bank, Harvard University Press, 1996. http://www.who.int/msa/mnh/ems/dalys/intro.htm 9 Murphy SL. Deaths: final data for 1998. National Vital Statistics Report, 48(11). DHHS Publication No. 2000-1120. Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics, 2000. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvs48_11.pdf 10 Chabot RJ, Gugino LD, Aglio LS, et al. QEEG and neuropsychological profiles of patients after undergoing cardiopulmonary bypass surgical procedures. Clinical Electroencephalography, 1997; 28(2): 98-105. 11 Blumenthal JA, Babyak MA, Moore KA, et al. Effects of exercise training on older patients with major depression. Archives of Internal Medicine, 1999; 159(19): 2349-56. 12 Fletcher GF, Balady G, Blair SN, et al. Statement on exercise: benefits and recommendations for physical activity programs for all Americans. A statement for health professionals by the Committee on Exercise and Cardiac Rehabilitation of the Council on Clinical Cardiology, American Heart Association. Circulation, 1996; 94(4): 857-62. For information about NIMH and its programs, please email, write or phone us. NIMH Public Inquiries 6001 Executive Boulevard, Rm. 8184, MSC 9663 Bethesda, MD 20892-9663 U.S.A. Voice (301) 443-4513; Fax (301) 443-4279

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From National Institute of Mental Health >Depression Can Break Your Heart >Research over the past two decades has shown that depression and heart >disease >are common companions and, what is worse, each can lead to the other. It >appears now that depression is an important risk factor for heart disease >along with high blood cholesterol and high blood pressure. A study conducted >in Baltimore, MD found that of 1,551 people who were free of heart disease, >those who had a history of depression were 4 times more likely than those >who >did not to suffer a heart attack in the next 14 years.1 In addition, >researchers in Montreal, Canada found that  heart patients who were >depressed >were 4 times as likely to die in the next 6 months as those who were not >depressed. 2 >Depression may make it harder to take the medications needed and to carry >out >the treatment for heart disease.3 Depression also may result in chronically >elevated levels of stress hormones, such as cortisol and adrenaline, and the >activation of the sympathetic nervous system (part of the "fight or flight" >response), which can have deleterious effects on the heart.

I think it’s the other way round. Depression is the result, etc.

Response:

Question:

The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect on thyroid. ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* of difference.

Response:

When you are tested for thyroid, be sure you are tested for FREE T3.  That’s the level in your blood.  My production and re-uptake of thyroid was good, and I had to get really pushy to get the test I needed, since it was already "proven" I wasn’t lacking in thyroid. Christina

The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect on thyroid. ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* of difference.

Response:

I’ve had a thyroid problem (a growth on the gland, destroyed with radiation, no meds for thyroid) and I have my TH3 checked every year, just to make sure my thyroid is still working. The doctor always calls it a TH3 and I’ve never heard him say they were doing a TH4…. Just my 2 cents… — Kathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When you are tested for thyroid, be sure you are tested for FREE T3. That’s > the level in your blood.  My production and re-uptake of thyroid was good, > and I had to get really pushy to get the test I needed, since it was already > "proven" I wasn’t lacking in thyroid. > Christina > The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t > usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is > working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. > T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, and not suprisingly, many > a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it > will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. > This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect > on thyroid. > ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there > are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with > SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* > of difference.

Response:

You can also try a low carb diet. I’ve read and hear it can be good for OCD, mood swings, general depression, sleep and really increase your energy/stamina. Once your used to the diet, you don’t crave sweets, and only eat to satisfy, not stuff. Supposed to really balance out the blood sugar levels too.  

Response:

The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests. T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, T3 covers one base: T3 level. and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect on thyroid. The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is indicated. ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* of difference. Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them. Chip

Response:

>The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t >usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is >working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. >Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests.

WRONG. 1)Not all doctors (R. Hedeya, 1996 "Biological Psychiatry") perform the following which CAN be indicative of hypothyroidism: a)Measure TSH (The most common test..but not the most effective) b)Measure free T4 c) Measure free T3. Treatment is required even if TSH is normal, but others aren’t. (L. Bartelina et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinilogyand Metabolism 70, 1990; 293) A TRH (Thyroid Releasing Hormone) stimulation test can also determine hypothyroidism.. Using either T3, or T3 and T4 is most effective in paitients who have even a *mild* hypothyroidism with antidepressant meds. (New England Journal of Medicine , 340, No. 6, Feb 11, 1999; 424-29) >T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, >T3 covers one base: T3 level.

Yes, BUT, in *normal* thyoid function, only a small amount of T3 is converted from T4. According to a study in The New England Journal of Medicine (http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa021199.htm T4 levels can be ‘normal’, but T3 can be lacking. Addition of T3 was more helpful then just the regular T4 Synthroid supplimentation. Here are further data to back this up. Also, Dr. Joffe, who is mentioned below, treated me in the hospital, and was very open to exploring ALL avenues for me to get better. That *should* be the intent of all doctors and psychiatrists, and without it, seems to be the reason so many are having a hard time because their doctor only thinks some simple ‘traditional’ method is the only thing that will work. My life was on the line, as are many others, and there is very little room for a ‘conservative’ approach, especially with the research out there. Am J Psychiatry 2000 Oct;157(10):1689-91 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut   Thyroid hormone levels and recurrence of major depression. Joffe RT, Marriott M. OBJECTIVE: The relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and acute antidepressant response has been studied, but any relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and long-term course of depressive illness has not been evaluated. METHOD: The authors used a Cox regression survival analysis to evaluate the relationship between life course of depressive illness and basal levels of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine [T(3)], thyroxine [T(4)], and thyrotropin) in 75 outpatients with unipolar major depressive disorder. RESULTS: Time to recurrence of major depression was inversely related to T(3) levels but not to T(4) levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data may be of clinical interest in view of the fact that T(3) is used to augment antidepressant response. J Clin Psychiatry 2001 Mar;62(3):169-73 Related Articles, Books   Triiodothyronine augmentation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in posttraumatic stress disorder. Agid O, Shalev AY, Lerer B. BACKGROUND: There is considerable comorbidity of major depression and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and antidepressants have been reported to be effective in treating PTSD. Addition of triiodothyronine (T3) to ongoing antidepressant treatment is considered an effective augmentation strategy in refractory depression. We report the effect of T3 augmentation of antidepressants in patients with PTSD. METHOD: T3 (25 microg/day) was added to treatment with a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) (paroxetine or fluoxetine, 20 mg/day for at least 4 weeks and 40 mg/day for a further 4 weeks) of 5 patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for PTSD but not for major depressive disorder (although all patients had significant depressive symptoms). The Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale, the 21-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, and the Clinical Global Impressions-Severity of Illness scale were administered every 2 weeks, and self-assessments were performed with a 100 mm visual analog mood scale. RESULTS: In 4 of the 5 patients, partial clinical improvement was observed with SSRI treatment at a daily dose of 20 mg with little further improvement when the dose was raised to 40 mg/day. This improvement was substantially enhanced by the addition of T3. Improvement was most striking on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. CONCLUSION: T3 augmentation of SSRI treatment may be of therapeutic benefit in patients with PTSD, particularly those with depressive symptoms. Larger samples and controlled studies are needed in order to confirm this observation. I’d suggest a simple Medline search with the words T3 and depression, and you will find much of this and extensive data on the issue. >and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these >levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very >small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, >as this med can have an effect on thyroid. >The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is >indicated.

WRONG. Not according to the above research. Do we just give Beta Blockers to people with heart problems? No. >ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there >are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with >SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* >of difference. >Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them.

Yes…very good. Did you learn that in school? Your doctor will know what hormones to measure. They will check for not only testosterone and estrogen, but adrenal output. There are a few different methods for correcting adrenal output problems.(Endocr Res. 2000 Nov;26(4):505-11.; ) (Br J Psychiatry. 2000 Feb;176:142-9.) (;Biol Psychiatry. 2000 Nov 15;48(10):989-95.) (Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2000 Nov;25(8):765-71.) For many, the only way to get better is search, fight, and aggresively explore every possible avenue. Many augmentation and additional strategies seem to be put down by many conventional doctors, but good reserach psychopharmacologists are working overtime to help the massive amount of treatment resistance out there. Just because you weren’t helped by any doesn’t mean you have the right to take it away or deny it from others. Too many come on here acting like the are the "Cheif Skeptics", researchers, and can deny and put down any methodologies. Bullshit. We are all equals on here…and nobody is forcing anyone to do *anything*. We do have a right to know if there is any indicative evidence, and our *doctor* NOT YOU, will decide. Jay (AKA James MacLachlan.) I’ve been on this board for many years, and have never seen this kind of negative crap. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Chip

Response:

>You can also try a low carb diet. >I’ve read and hear it can be good for OCD, mood swings, general depression, >sleep and really increase your energy/stamina. >Once your used to the diet, you don’t crave sweets, and only eat to satisfy, >not stuff. >Supposed to really balance out the blood sugar levels too.

Yes, for sure. There are a couple of people on here who seem interested in denying others rights to trying augmentation or additional strategies. (All are well documented too.) Just ignore them… I would say that having highly mixed blood sugar levels could be very much part of depression. Keeping them stable with diet would seem like an excellent method. Jay (AKA James)

Response:

>The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t >usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is >working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. >Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests.

WRONG. If you read enough of the literature and textbooks, you will find each endocrinologist has his own approach to ordering thryroid tests. And psychiatrists have even more thryoid function tests they like to order than endocrinologists. 1)Not all doctors (R. Hedeya, 1996 "Biological Psychiatry") perform the following which CAN be indicative of hypothyroidism: a)Measure TSH (The most common test..but not the most effective) b)Measure free T4 c) Measure free T3. Treatment is required even if TSH is normal, but others aren’t. (L. Bartelina et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinilogyand Metabolism 70, 1990; 293) A TRH (Thyroid Releasing Hormone) stimulation test can also determine hypothyroidism.. Using either T3, or T3 and T4 is most effective in paitients who have even a *mild* hypothyroidism with antidepressant meds. (New England Journal of Medicine , 340, No. 6, Feb 11, 1999; 424-29) >T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, >T3 covers one base: T3 level.

Yes, BUT, in *normal* thyoid function, only a small amount of T3 is converted from T4. According to a study in The New England Journal of Medicine (http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa021199.htm T4 levels can be ‘normal’, but T3 can be lacking. Addition of T3 was more helpful then just the regular T4 Synthroid supplimentation. Here are further data to back this up. Also, Dr. Joffe, who is mentioned below, treated me in the hospital, and was very open to exploring ALL avenues for me to get better. That *should* be the intent of all doctors and psychiatrists, and without it, seems to be the reason so many are having a hard time because their doctor only thinks some simple ‘traditional’ method is the only thing that will work. My life was on the line, as are many others, and there is very little room for a ‘conservative’ approach, especially with the research out there. Am J Psychiatry 2000 Oct;157(10):1689-91 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut Thyroid hormone levels and recurrence of major depression. Joffe RT, Marriott M. Mood Disorders Program and Department of Psychiatry, Faculty of Health Sciences, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. OBJECTIVE: The relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and acute antidepressant response has been studied, but any relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and long-term course of depressive illness has not been evaluated. METHOD: The authors used a Cox regression survival analysis to evaluate the relationship between life course of depressive illness and basal levels of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine [T(3)], thyroxine [T(4)], and thyrotropin) in 75 outpatients with unipolar major depressive disorder. RESULTS: Time to recurrence of major depression was inversely related to T(3) levels but not to T(4) levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data may be of clinical interest in view of the fact that T(3) is used to augment antidepressant response. J Clin Psychiatry 2001 Mar;62(3):169-73 Related Articles, Books Triiodothyronine augmentation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in posttraumatic stress disorder. Agid O, Shalev AY, Lerer B. Department of Psychiatry, Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center, BACKGROUND: There is considerable comorbidity of major depression and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and antidepressants have been reported to be effective in treating PTSD. Addition of triiodothyronine (T3) to ongoing antidepressant treatment is considered an effective augmentation strategy in refractory depression. We report the effect of T3 augmentation of antidepressants in patients with PTSD. METHOD: T3 (25 microg/day) was added to treatment with a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) (paroxetine or fluoxetine, 20 mg/day for at least 4 weeks and 40 mg/day for a further 4 weeks) of 5 patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for PTSD but not for major depressive disorder (although all patients had significant depressive symptoms). The Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale, the 21-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, and the Clinical Global Impressions-Severity of Illness scale were administered every 2 weeks, and self-assessments were performed with a 100 mm visual analog mood scale. RESULTS: In 4 of the 5 patients, partial clinical improvement was observed with SSRI treatment at a daily dose of 20 mg with little further improvement when the dose was raised to 40 mg/day. This improvement was substantially enhanced by the addition of T3. Improvement was most striking on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. CONCLUSION: T3 augmentation of SSRI treatment may be of therapeutic benefit in patients with PTSD, particularly those with depressive symptoms. Larger samples and controlled studies are needed in order to confirm this observation. I’d suggest a simple Medline search with the words T3 and depression, and you will find much of this and extensive data on the issue. I suggest a simple Medline search on thyroid function tests to see which tests, and in what order, doctors order them to determine if there is a problem with thyroid function. I found that doctors vary in the way they approach ordering thyroid function tests. As far as I am able to determine, there is still no consensus on this, and probably won’t be because new generations of each test continue to appear. >and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these >levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very >small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, >as this med can have an effect on thyroid. >The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is >indicated.

WRONG. Not according to the above research. Do we just give Beta Blockers to people with heart problems? No. Don’t follow your reasoning on that one. There should always be a good reason to give any person a med. All meds carry risks. >ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there >are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with >SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* >of difference. >Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them.

Yes…very good. Did you learn that in school? Your doctor will know what hormones to measure. You just got through saying doctors didn’t know which thyroid function tests to order. But you do. They will check for not only testosterone and estrogen, but adrenal output. There are a few different methods for correcting adrenal output problems.(Endocr Res. 2000 Nov;26(4):505-11.; ) (Br J Psychiatry. 2000 Feb;176:142-9.) (;Biol Psychiatry. 2000 Nov 15;48(10):989-95.) (Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2000 Nov;25(8):765-71.) For many, the only way to get better is search, fight, and aggresively explore every possible avenue. Many augmentation and additional strategies seem to be put down by many conventional doctors, but good reserach psychopharmacologists are working overtime to help the massive amount of treatment resistance out there. I’ve never found that psychiatrists were adverse to augmentation strategies. I’ve had three myself: desipramine, lithium, and a stimulant. Just because you weren’t helped by any doesn’t mean you have the right to take it away or deny it from others. Too many come on here acting like the are the "Cheif Skeptics", researchers, and can deny and put down any methodologies. Bullshit. We are all equals on here…and nobody is forcing anyone to do *anything*. We do have a right to know if there is any indicative evidence, and our *doctor* NOT YOU, will decide. Jay (AKA James MacLachlan.) I’ve been on this board for many years, and have never seen this kind of negative crap. I’m unclear why you construe people disagreeing with your viewpoints as negative crap. Chip p.s. this is my last post on this subject

Response:

Why did you come on and  attack what I said so aggressively..and with a very sarcastic and patronizing tone? (In your original post) It had everything to do with your tone…as I sure as heck had said nothing nasty toward *anyone* in my original post. I did not attack/mention ANYBODY…it was some very basic simple info based on articles I had even referenced.   You don’t like being attacked? Well..I sure as heck don’t either. It’s the last thing anybody needs. Many people on all newsgroups often post reference articles, and just because it is done less so on a.s.a.p. does not mean you have to wage an all-out war against me. I’ve been around these parts for many years as well. James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t >usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is >working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. >Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests. >WRONG. >If you read enough of the literature and textbooks, you will find each >endocrinologist has his own approach to ordering thryroid tests. And >psychiatrists have even more thryoid function tests they like to order than >endocrinologists. >1)Not all doctors (R. Hedeya, 1996 "Biological Psychiatry") perform the >following which CAN be indicative of hypothyroidism: >a)Measure TSH (The most common test..but not the most effective) >b)Measure free T4 >c) Measure free T3. >Treatment is required even if TSH is normal, but others aren’t. (L. >Bartelina et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinilogyand Metabolism 70, 1990; >293) A TRH (Thyroid Releasing Hormone) stimulation test can also determine >hypothyroidism.. >Using either T3, or T3 and T4 is most effective in paitients who have even a >*mild* hypothyroidism with antidepressant meds. (New England Journal of >Medicine , 340, No. 6, Feb 11, 1999; 424-29) >T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, >T3 covers one base: T3 level. >Yes, BUT, in *normal* thyoid function, only a small amount of T3 is >converted from T4. According to a study in The New England Journal of >Medicine >(http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa021199.htm >T4 levels can be ‘normal’, but T3 can be lacking. Addition of T3 was more >helpful then just the regular T4 Synthroid supplimentation. >Here are further data to back this up. Also, Dr. Joffe, who is mentioned >below, treated me in the hospital, and was very open to exploring ALL >avenues for me to get better. That *should* be the intent of all doctors and >psychiatrists, and without it, seems to be the reason so many are having a >hard time because their doctor only thinks some simple ‘traditional’ method >is the only thing that will work. >My life was on the line, as are many others, and there is very little room >for a ‘conservative’ approach, especially with the research out there. >Am J Psychiatry 2000 Oct;157(10):1689-91 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut >Thyroid hormone levels and recurrence of major depression. >Joffe RT, Marriott M. >Mood Disorders Program and Department of Psychiatry, Faculty of Health >Sciences, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. >OBJECTIVE: The relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and acute >antidepressant response has been studied, but any relationship between basal >thyroid hormone levels and long-term course of depressive illness has not >been evaluated. METHOD: The authors used a Cox regression survival analysis >to evaluate the relationship between life course of depressive illness and >basal levels of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine [T(3)], thyroxine [T(4)], >and thyrotropin) in 75 outpatients with unipolar major depressive disorder. >RESULTS: Time to recurrence of major depression was inversely related to >T(3) levels but not to T(4) levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data may be of >clinical interest in view of the fact that T(3) is used to augment >antidepressant response. >J Clin Psychiatry 2001 Mar;62(3):169-73 Related Articles, Books >Triiodothyronine augmentation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in >posttraumatic stress disorder. >Agid O, Shalev AY, Lerer B. >Department of Psychiatry, Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center, >BACKGROUND: There is considerable comorbidity of major depression and >posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and antidepressants have been reported >to be effective in treating PTSD. Addition of triiodothyronine (T3) to >ongoing antidepressant treatment is considered an effective augmentation >strategy in refractory depression. We report the effect of T3 augmentation >of antidepressants in patients with PTSD. METHOD: T3 (25 microg/day) was >added to treatment with a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) >(paroxetine or fluoxetine, 20 mg/day for at least 4 weeks and 40 mg/day for >a further 4 weeks) of 5 patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for PTSD but >not for major depressive disorder (although all patients had significant >depressive symptoms). The Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale, the 21-item >Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, and the Clinical Global >Impressions-Severity of Illness scale were administered every 2 weeks, and >self-assessments were performed with a 100 mm visual analog mood scale. >RESULTS: In 4 of the 5 patients, partial clinical improvement was observed >with SSRI treatment at a daily dose of 20 mg with little further improvement >when the dose was raised to 40 mg/day. This improvement was substantially >enhanced by the addition of T3. Improvement was most striking on the >Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. CONCLUSION: T3 augmentation of SSRI >treatment may be of therapeutic benefit in patients with PTSD, particularly >those with depressive symptoms. Larger samples and controlled studies are >needed in order to confirm this observation. >I’d suggest a simple Medline search with the words T3 and depression, and >you will find much of this and extensive data on the issue. >I suggest a simple Medline search on thyroid function tests to see which >tests, and in what order, doctors order them to determine if there is a >problem with thyroid function. I found that doctors vary in the way they >approach ordering thyroid function tests. As far as I am able to determine, >there is still no consensus on this, and probably won’t be because new >generations of each test continue to appear. >and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these >levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very >small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, >as this med can have an effect on thyroid. >The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is >indicated. >WRONG. Not according to the above research. Do we just give Beta Blockers to >people with heart problems? No. >Don’t follow your reasoning on that one. There should always be a good >reason to give any person a med. All meds carry risks. >ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there >are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with >SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* >of difference. >Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them. >Yes…very good. Did you learn that in school? Your doctor will know what >hormones to measure. >You just got through saying doctors didn’t know which thyroid function tests >to order. But you do. >They will check for not only testosterone and estrogen, but adrenal output. >There are a few different methods for correcting adrenal output >problems.(Endocr Res. 2000 Nov;26(4):505-11.; ) (Br J Psychiatry. 2000 >Feb;176:142-9.) (;Biol Psychiatry. 2000 Nov 15;48(10):989-95.) >(Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2000 Nov;25(8):765-71.) >For many, the only way to get better is search, fight, and aggresively >explore every possible avenue. Many augmentation and additional strategies >seem to be put down by many conventional doctors, but good reserach >psychopharmacologists are working overtime to help the massive amount of >treatment resistance out there. >I’ve never found that psychiatrists were adverse to augmentation strategies. >I’ve had three myself: desipramine, lithium, and a stimulant. >Just because you weren’t helped by any doesn’t mean you have the right to >take it away or deny it from others. Too many come on here acting like the >are the "Cheif Skeptics", researchers, and can deny and put down any >methodologies. Bullshit. We are all equals on here…and nobody is forcing >anyone to do *anything*. We do have a right to know if there is any >indicative evidence, and our *doctor* NOT YOU, will decide. >Jay (AKA James MacLachlan.) I’ve been on this board for many years, and have >never seen this kind of negative crap. >I’m unclear why you construe people disagreeing with your viewpoints as >negative crap. >Chip >p.s. this is my last post on this subject

Response:

Why did you come on and  attack what I said so aggressively..and with a very sarcastic and patronizing tone? (In your original post) It had everything to do with your tone…as I sure as heck had said nothing nasty toward *anyone* in my original post. I did not attack/mention ANYBODY…it was some very basic simple info based on articles I had even referenced.   You don’t like being attacked? Well..I sure as heck don’t either. It’s the last thing anybody needs. Many people on all newsgroups often post reference articles, and just because it is done less so on a.s.a.p. does not mean you have to wage an all-out war against me. I’ve been around these parts for many years as well. James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t >usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is >working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. >Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests. >WRONG. >If you read enough of the literature and textbooks, you will find each >endocrinologist has his own approach to ordering thryroid tests. And >psychiatrists have even more thryoid function tests they like to order than >endocrinologists. >1)Not all doctors (R. Hedeya, 1996 "Biological Psychiatry") perform the >following which CAN be indicative of hypothyroidism: >a)Measure TSH (The most common test..but not the most effective) >b)Measure free T4 >c) Measure free T3. >Treatment is required even if TSH is normal, but others aren’t. (L. >Bartelina et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinilogyand Metabolism 70, 1990; >293) A TRH (Thyroid Releasing Hormone) stimulation test can also determine >hypothyroidism.. >Using either T3, or T3 and T4 is most effective in paitients who have even a >*mild* hypothyroidism with antidepressant meds. (New England Journal of >Medicine , 340, No. 6, Feb 11, 1999; 424-29) >T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, >T3 covers one base: T3 level. >Yes, BUT, in *normal* thyoid function, only a small amount of T3 is >converted from T4. According to a study in The New England Journal of >Medicine >(http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa021199.htm >T4 levels can be ‘normal’, but T3 can be lacking. Addition of T3 was more >helpful then just the regular T4 Synthroid supplimentation. >Here are further data to back this up. Also, Dr. Joffe, who is mentioned >below, treated me in the hospital, and was very open to exploring ALL >avenues for me to get better. That *should* be the intent of all doctors and >psychiatrists, and without it, seems to be the reason so many are having a >hard time because their doctor only thinks some simple ‘traditional’ method >is the only thing that will work. >My life was on the line, as are many others, and there is very little room >for a ‘conservative’ approach, especially with the research out there. >Am J Psychiatry 2000 Oct;157(10):1689-91 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut >Thyroid hormone levels and recurrence of major depression. >Joffe RT, Marriott M. >Mood Disorders Program and Department of Psychiatry, Faculty of Health >Sciences, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. >OBJECTIVE: The relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and acute >antidepressant response has been studied, but any relationship between basal >thyroid hormone levels and long-term course of depressive illness has not >been evaluated. METHOD: The authors used a Cox regression survival analysis >to evaluate the relationship between life course of depressive illness and >basal levels of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine [T(3)], thyroxine [T(4)], >and thyrotropin) in 75 outpatients with unipolar major depressive disorder. >RESULTS: Time to recurrence of major depression was inversely related to >T(3) levels but not to T(4) levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data may be of >clinical interest in view of the fact that T(3) is used to augment >antidepressant response. >J Clin Psychiatry 2001 Mar;62(3):169-73 Related Articles, Books >Triiodothyronine augmentation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in >posttraumatic stress disorder. >Agid O, Shalev AY, Lerer B. >Department of Psychiatry, Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center, >BACKGROUND: There is considerable comorbidity of major depression and >posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and antidepressants have been reported >to be effective in treating PTSD. Addition of triiodothyronine (T3) to >ongoing antidepressant treatment is considered an effective augmentation >strategy in refractory depression. We report the effect of T3 augmentation >of antidepressants in patients with PTSD. METHOD: T3 (25 microg/day) was >added to treatment with a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) >(paroxetine or fluoxetine, 20 mg/day for at least 4 weeks and 40 mg/day for >a further 4 weeks) of 5 patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for PTSD but >not for major depressive disorder (although all patients had significant >depressive symptoms). The Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale, the 21-item >Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, and the Clinical Global >Impressions-Severity of Illness scale were administered every 2 weeks, and >self-assessments were performed with a 100 mm visual analog mood scale. >RESULTS: In 4 of the 5 patients, partial clinical improvement was observed >with SSRI treatment at a daily dose of 20 mg with little further improvement >when the dose was raised to 40 mg/day. This improvement was substantially >enhanced by the addition of T3. Improvement was most striking on the >Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. CONCLUSION: T3 augmentation of SSRI >treatment may be of therapeutic benefit in patients with PTSD, particularly >those with depressive symptoms. Larger samples and controlled studies are >needed in order to confirm this observation. >I’d suggest a simple Medline search with the words T3 and depression, and >you will find much of this and extensive data on the issue. >I suggest a simple Medline search on thyroid function tests to see which >tests, and in what order, doctors order them to determine if there is a >problem with thyroid function. I found that doctors vary in the way they >approach ordering thyroid function tests. As far as I am able to determine, >there is still no consensus on this, and probably won’t be because new >generations of each test continue to appear. >and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these >levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very >small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, >as this med can have an effect on thyroid. >The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is >indicated. >WRONG. Not according to the above research. Do we just give Beta Blockers to >people with heart problems? No. >Don’t follow your reasoning on that one. There should always be a good >reason to give any person a med. All meds carry risks. >ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there >are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with >SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* >of difference. >Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them. >Yes…very good. Did you learn that in school? Your doctor will know what >hormones to measure. >You just got through saying doctors didn’t know which thyroid function tests >to order. But you do. >They will check for not only testosterone and estrogen, but adrenal output. >There are a few different methods for correcting adrenal output >problems.(Endocr Res. 2000 Nov;26(4):505-11.; ) (Br J Psychiatry. 2000 >Feb;176:142-9.) (;Biol Psychiatry. 2000 Nov 15;48(10):989-95.) >(Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2000 Nov;25(8):765-71.) >For many, the only way to get better is search, fight, and aggresively >explore every possible avenue. Many augmentation and additional strategies >seem to be put down by many conventional doctors, but good reserach >psychopharmacologists are working overtime to help the massive amount of >treatment resistance out there. >I’ve never found that psychiatrists were adverse to augmentation strategies. >I’ve had three myself: desipramine, lithium, and a stimulant. >Just because you weren’t helped by any doesn’t mean you have the right to >take it away or deny it from others. Too many come on here acting like the >are the "Cheif Skeptics", researchers, and can deny and put down any >methodologies. Bullshit. We are all equals on here…and nobody is forcing >anyone to do *anything*. We do have a right to know if there is any >indicative evidence, and our *doctor* NOT YOU, will decide. >Jay (AKA James MacLachlan.) I’ve been on this board for many years, and have >never seen this kind of negative crap. >I’m unclear why you construe people disagreeing with your viewpoints as >negative crap. >Chip >p.s. this is my last post on this subject

Response:

>The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t >usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is >working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. >Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests.

WRONG. If you read enough of the literature and textbooks, you will find each endocrinologist has his own approach to ordering thryroid tests. And psychiatrists have even more thryoid function tests they like to order than endocrinologists. 1)Not all doctors (R. Hedeya, 1996 "Biological Psychiatry") perform the following which CAN be indicative of hypothyroidism: a)Measure TSH (The most common test..but not the most effective) b)Measure free T4 c) Measure free T3. Treatment is required even if TSH is normal, but others aren’t. (L. Bartelina et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinilogyand Metabolism 70, 1990; 293) A TRH (Thyroid Releasing Hormone) stimulation test can also determine hypothyroidism.. Using either T3, or T3 and T4 is most effective in paitients who have even a *mild* hypothyroidism with antidepressant meds. (New England Journal of Medicine , 340, No. 6, Feb 11, 1999; 424-29) >T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, >T3 covers one base: T3 level.

Yes, BUT, in *normal* thyoid function, only a small amount of T3 is converted from T4. According to a study in The New England Journal of Medicine (http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa021199.htm T4 levels can be ‘normal’, but T3 can be lacking. Addition of T3 was more helpful then just the regular T4 Synthroid supplimentation. Here are further data to back this up. Also, Dr. Joffe, who is mentioned below, treated me in the hospital, and was very open to exploring ALL avenues for me to get better. That *should* be the intent of all doctors and psychiatrists, and without it, seems to be the reason so many are having a hard time because their doctor only thinks some simple ‘traditional’ method is the only thing that will work. My life was on the line, as are many others, and there is very little room for a ‘conservative’ approach, especially with the research out there. Am J Psychiatry 2000 Oct;157(10):1689-91 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut Thyroid hormone levels and recurrence of major depression. Joffe RT, Marriott M. Mood Disorders Program and Department of Psychiatry, Faculty of Health Sciences, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. OBJECTIVE: The relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and acute antidepressant response has been studied, but any relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and long-term course of depressive illness has not been evaluated. METHOD: The authors used a Cox regression survival analysis to evaluate the relationship between life course of depressive illness and basal levels of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine [T(3)], thyroxine [T(4)], and thyrotropin) in 75 outpatients with unipolar major depressive disorder. RESULTS: Time to recurrence of major depression was inversely related to T(3) levels but not to T(4) levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data may be of clinical interest in view of the fact that T(3) is used to augment antidepressant response. J Clin Psychiatry 2001 Mar;62(3):169-73 Related Articles, Books Triiodothyronine augmentation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in posttraumatic stress disorder. Agid O, Shalev AY, Lerer B. Department of Psychiatry, Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center, BACKGROUND: There is considerable comorbidity of major depression and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and antidepressants have been reported to be effective in treating PTSD. Addition of triiodothyronine (T3) to ongoing antidepressant treatment is considered an effective augmentation strategy in refractory depression. We report the effect of T3 augmentation of antidepressants in patients with PTSD. METHOD: T3 (25 microg/day) was added to treatment with a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) (paroxetine or fluoxetine, 20 mg/day for at least 4 weeks and 40 mg/day for a further 4 weeks) of 5 patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for PTSD but not for major depressive disorder (although all patients had significant depressive symptoms). The Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale, the 21-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, and the Clinical Global Impressions-Severity of Illness scale were administered every 2 weeks, and self-assessments were performed with a 100 mm visual analog mood scale. RESULTS: In 4 of the 5 patients, partial clinical improvement was observed with SSRI treatment at a daily dose of 20 mg with little further improvement when the dose was raised to 40 mg/day. This improvement was substantially enhanced by the addition of T3. Improvement was most striking on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. CONCLUSION: T3 augmentation of SSRI treatment may be of therapeutic benefit in patients with PTSD, particularly those with depressive symptoms. Larger samples and controlled studies are needed in order to confirm this observation. I’d suggest a simple Medline search with the words T3 and depression, and you will find much of this and extensive data on the issue. I suggest a simple Medline search on thyroid function tests to see which tests, and in what order, doctors order them to determine if there is a problem with thyroid function. I found that doctors vary in the way they approach ordering thyroid function tests. As far as I am able to determine, there is still no consensus on this, and probably won’t be because new generations of each test continue to appear. >and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these >levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very >small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, >as this med can have an effect on thyroid. >The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is >indicated.

WRONG. Not according to the above research. Do we just give Beta Blockers to people with heart problems? No. Don’t follow your reasoning on that one. There should always be a good reason to give any person a med. All meds carry risks. >ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there >are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with >SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* >of difference. >Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them.

Yes…very good. Did you learn that in school? Your doctor will know what hormones to measure. You just got through saying doctors didn’t know which thyroid function tests to order. But you do. They will check for not only testosterone and estrogen, but adrenal output. There are a few different methods for correcting adrenal output problems.(Endocr Res. 2000 Nov;26(4):505-11.; ) (Br J Psychiatry. 2000 Feb;176:142-9.) (;Biol Psychiatry. 2000 Nov 15;48(10):989-95.) (Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2000 Nov;25(8):765-71.) For many, the only way to get better is search, fight, and aggresively explore every possible avenue. Many augmentation and additional strategies seem to be put down by many conventional doctors, but good reserach psychopharmacologists are working overtime to help the massive amount of treatment resistance out there. I’ve never found that psychiatrists were adverse to augmentation strategies. I’ve had three myself: desipramine, lithium, and a stimulant. Just because you weren’t helped by any doesn’t mean you have the right to take it away or deny it from others. Too many come on here acting like the are the "Cheif Skeptics", researchers, and can deny and put down any methodologies. Bullshit. We are all equals on here…and nobody is forcing anyone to do *anything*. We do have a right to know if there is any indicative evidence, and our *doctor* NOT YOU, will decide. Jay (AKA James MacLachlan.) I’ve been on this board for many years, and have never seen this kind of negative crap. I’m unclear why you construe people disagreeing with your viewpoints as negative crap. Chip p.s. this is my last post on this subject

Response:

The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect on thyroid. ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* of difference.

Response:

When you are tested for thyroid, be sure you are tested for FREE T3.  That’s the level in your blood.  My production and re-uptake of thyroid was good, and I had to get really pushy to get the test I needed, since it was already "proven" I wasn’t lacking in thyroid. Christina

The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect on thyroid. ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* of difference.

Response:

I’ve had a thyroid problem (a growth on the gland, destroyed with radiation, no meds for thyroid) and I have my TH3 checked every year, just to make sure my thyroid is still working. The doctor always calls it a TH3 and I’ve never heard him say they were doing a TH4…. Just my 2 cents… — Kathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When you are tested for thyroid, be sure you are tested for FREE T3. That’s > the level in your blood.  My production and re-uptake of thyroid was good, > and I had to get really pushy to get the test I needed, since it was already > "proven" I wasn’t lacking in thyroid. > Christina > The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t > usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is > working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. > T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, and not suprisingly, many > a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it > will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. > This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect > on thyroid. > ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there > are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with > SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* > of difference.

Response:

The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests. T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, T3 covers one base: T3 level. and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, as this med can have an effect on thyroid. The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is indicated. ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* of difference. Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them. Chip

Response:

>The problem with most thryroid tests your doc gives you is it doesn’t >usually give a good picture of the importance of how well your thyroid is >working. They measure T4 thyroid  levels, but that just doesn’t cut it. >Docs order all kinds of different thyroid tests.

WRONG. 1)Not all doctors (R. Hedeya, 1996 "Biological Psychiatry") perform the following which CAN be indicative of hypothyroidism: a)Measure TSH (The most common test..but not the most effective) b)Measure free T4 c) Measure free T3. Treatment is required even if TSH is normal, but others aren’t. (L. Bartelina et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinilogyand Metabolism 70, 1990; 293) A TRH (Thyroid Releasing Hormone) stimulation test can also determine hypothyroidism.. Using either T3, or T3 and T4 is most effective in paitients who have even a *mild* hypothyroidism with antidepressant meds. (New England Journal of Medicine , 340, No. 6, Feb 11, 1999; 424-29) >T3 covers more bases in your thyroid function, >T3 covers one base: T3 level.

Yes, BUT, in *normal* thyoid function, only a small amount of T3 is converted from T4. According to a study in The New England Journal of Medicine (http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/aa021199.htm T4 levels can be ‘normal’, but T3 can be lacking. Addition of T3 was more helpful then just the regular T4 Synthroid supplimentation. Here are further data to back this up. Also, Dr. Joffe, who is mentioned below, treated me in the hospital, and was very open to exploring ALL avenues for me to get better. That *should* be the intent of all doctors and psychiatrists, and without it, seems to be the reason so many are having a hard time because their doctor only thinks some simple ‘traditional’ method is the only thing that will work. My life was on the line, as are many others, and there is very little room for a ‘conservative’ approach, especially with the research out there. Am J Psychiatry 2000 Oct;157(10):1689-91 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut   Thyroid hormone levels and recurrence of major depression. Joffe RT, Marriott M. OBJECTIVE: The relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and acute antidepressant response has been studied, but any relationship between basal thyroid hormone levels and long-term course of depressive illness has not been evaluated. METHOD: The authors used a Cox regression survival analysis to evaluate the relationship between life course of depressive illness and basal levels of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine [T(3)], thyroxine [T(4)], and thyrotropin) in 75 outpatients with unipolar major depressive disorder. RESULTS: Time to recurrence of major depression was inversely related to T(3) levels but not to T(4) levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data may be of clinical interest in view of the fact that T(3) is used to augment antidepressant response. J Clin Psychiatry 2001 Mar;62(3):169-73 Related Articles, Books   Triiodothyronine augmentation of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in posttraumatic stress disorder. Agid O, Shalev AY, Lerer B. BACKGROUND: There is considerable comorbidity of major depression and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and antidepressants have been reported to be effective in treating PTSD. Addition of triiodothyronine (T3) to ongoing antidepressant treatment is considered an effective augmentation strategy in refractory depression. We report the effect of T3 augmentation of antidepressants in patients with PTSD. METHOD: T3 (25 microg/day) was added to treatment with a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) (paroxetine or fluoxetine, 20 mg/day for at least 4 weeks and 40 mg/day for a further 4 weeks) of 5 patients who fulfilled DSM-IV criteria for PTSD but not for major depressive disorder (although all patients had significant depressive symptoms). The Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale, the 21-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression, and the Clinical Global Impressions-Severity of Illness scale were administered every 2 weeks, and self-assessments were performed with a 100 mm visual analog mood scale. RESULTS: In 4 of the 5 patients, partial clinical improvement was observed with SSRI treatment at a daily dose of 20 mg with little further improvement when the dose was raised to 40 mg/day. This improvement was substantially enhanced by the addition of T3. Improvement was most striking on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression. CONCLUSION: T3 augmentation of SSRI treatment may be of therapeutic benefit in patients with PTSD, particularly those with depressive symptoms. Larger samples and controlled studies are needed in order to confirm this observation. I’d suggest a simple Medline search with the words T3 and depression, and you will find much of this and extensive data on the issue. >and not suprisingly, many a.d.s, even the SSRI’s, have an effect on these >levels. Even as a trial, it will not hurt if your doc adds a very, very >small trial of T3 to your med. This is also even more true when on Lithium, >as this med can have an effect on thyroid. >The only reason to add anything to an antidepressant is because it is >indicated.

WRONG. Not according to the above research. Do we just give Beta Blockers to people with heart problems? No. >ALso, try to get hormone levels measured, as well as DHEA levels. If there >are problems with these, that have been in fact showing up a fair bit with >SSRI’s, your doc can provide small doses if needed. This can make a *world* >of difference. >Which hormones do you recommend get measured? They’re are hundreds of them.

Yes…very good. Did you learn that in school? Your doctor will know what hormones to measure. They will check for not only testosterone and estrogen, but adrenal output. There are a few different methods for correcting adrenal output problems.(Endocr Res. 2000 Nov;26(4):505-11.; ) (Br J Psychiatry. 2000 Feb;176:142-9.) (;Biol Psychiatry. 2000 Nov 15;48(10):989-95.) (Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2000 Nov;25(8):765-71.) For many, the only way to get better is search, fight, and aggresively explore every possible avenue. Many augmentation and additional strategies seem to be put down by many conventional doctors, but good reserach psychopharmacologists are working overtime to help the massive amount of treatment resistance out there. Just because you weren’t helped by any doesn’t mean you have the right to take it away or deny it from others. Too many come on here acting like the are the "Cheif Skeptics", researchers, and can deny and put down any methodologies. Bullshit. We are all equals on here…and nobody is forcing anyone to do *anything*. We do have a right to know if there is any indicative evidence, and our *doctor* NOT YOU, will decide. Jay (AKA James MacLachlan.) I’ve been on this board for many years, and have never seen this kind of negative crap. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Chip

Response:

Question:

Where do you get this stuff?  This one was absolutely *hilarious*! Thanks for the laugh~ ~Kimberlee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > A married couple was in a terrible accident where the woman’s face was > severely burned. The doctor told the husband that they couldn’t graft > any skin from her body because she was too skinny. So the husband > offered to donate some of his own skin. However, the only skin on his > body that the doctor felt was suitable would have to come from his > buttocks. The husband and wife agreed that they would tell no one > where > the skin came from, and requested the doctor also honour their secret. > After all, this was a very delicate matter. After the surgery was > completed, everyone was astounded at the woman’s new beauty. She > looked > more beautiful than she ever had before! All her friends and relatives > just went on and on about her youthful beauty! One day, she was alone > with her husband, and she was overcome with emotion at his sacrifice. > She said, "Dear, I just want to thank you for everything you did for > me. > There is no way I could repay you." "My darling," he replied, "think > nothing, of it. I get all the thanks I need every time I see your > mother > kiss you on the cheek."

Response:

A married couple was in a terrible accident where the woman’s face was severely burned. The doctor told the husband that they couldn’t graft any skin from her body because she was too skinny. So the husband offered to donate some of his own skin. However, the only skin on his body that the doctor felt was suitable would have to come from his buttocks. The husband and wife agreed that they would tell no one where the skin came from, and requested the doctor also honour their secret. After all, this was a very delicate matter. After the surgery was completed, everyone was astounded at the woman’s new beauty. She looked more beautiful than she ever had before! All her friends and relatives just went on and on about her youthful beauty! One day, she was alone with her husband, and she was overcome with emotion at his sacrifice. She said, "Dear, I just want to thank you for everything you did for me. There is no way I could repay you." "My darling," he replied, "think nothing, of it. I get all the thanks I need every time I see your mother kiss you on the cheek." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >When Depression Turns Deadly: >Can Antidepressants Transform Despair into Suicide? >ANNE McILROY >THE GLOBE AND MAIL >Saturday, April 21, 2001 >www.globeandmail.com >When Matt Miller’s family moved to a bigger house in a new >neighbourhood in Kansas City, Mo., the athletic 13-year-old with thick >blond hair found that he couldn’t penetrate the cliques at his new >school. He was a nobody, an outsider. >"He was angry at us, he was angry at the school, his grades suffered. >He wasn’t himself," said his father, Mark Miller. >The boy’s teachers recommended that he see a psychiatrist, who >prescribed Zoloft, an antidepressant in the same chemical family as >Prozac. The doctor said it would help Matt’s mood, make him feel >better about himself. The boy started taking the pills and seemed to >be in good spirits for a few days. >But then he began showing signs of intense nervousness and agitation. >He couldn’t sit still, his father remembers. He kept kicking people >under the table. His eyes were sunken and he couldn’t sleep, yet he >had a restless energy. >After six days on the drug, on July 28, 1997, Matt hanged himself in >his bedroom closet. >"Suicide always takes you by surprise, but no one could have imagined >that Matt would have done that," Miller said in an interview. "There >was no previous attempt, no serious threat of it, no note, no >premeditation. "It was a very impulsive act I am convinced was brought >about by the stimulant nature of the drug." >Miller has launched a lawsuit against Pfizer Inc., which makes Zoloft. >He is one of about 200 people who have sued — so far unsuccessfully >– the makers of Prozac and similar products. The plaintiffs contend >that the drugs, known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, >caused their loved ones to kill themselves and, in some cases, hurt or >kill others as well. One of the few cases to go to trial so far was >that of William Forsyth, a 63-year-old wealthy Hawaii businessman who >stabbed to death his wife of 37 years and then killed himself in 1993. >At the time, he had been taking Prozac for 11 days for panic attacks. >In 1999, a jury in the civil lawsuit cleared Prozac of liability in >the deaths. Forsyth’s adult children began another suit last year >accusing Eli Lilly and Co., the maker of the drug, of covering up >damaging details about the antidepressant. >Chief among the scientific experts who have given people, including >Miller and Forsyth’s children, reason to believe that a link may exist >between antidepressants and suicide is Dr. David Healy, whom Miller >has engaged as an expert witness in his suit. >Healy is a well-known British psychiatrist who argues that Prozac and >similar drugs may trigger suicide in some patients, and that there >should be warning labels on the products. >To Miller, Healy is a hero, a crusading scientist with the guts and >credibility to challenge the powerful, multinational drug companies in >an era in which many researchers and institutions depend on them for >funding. But discussing the down side of Prozac does not appear to >have been a good career move. Healy’s blunt expression of his views >may have cost him a job at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, >a teaching hospital associated with the University of Toronto. The >centre had been recruiting him for months, but last year rescinded his >written job offer after he gave a speech warning that Prozac may >trigger suicide in some patients. >Eli Lilly Canada Inc. is a major corporate donor to the centre, but >university and hospital officials say their decision had nothing to do >with wanting to please the drug company or to avoid damaging future >fundraising efforts. They say their reasons are confidential. >Healy says the only explanation he was offered was that his lecture >"solidified" the view that he was not a good fit. >For Eli Lilly’s part, it points out that a U.S. Food and Drug >Administration >panel of experts voted six to three against requiring Prozac to carry >a >suicide-risk warning label. In September of 1991, the FDA concluded >that >there was no credible evidence of a causal link between the use of >antidepressant drugs, including Prozac, and suicides or violent >behaviour. >And a paper published in March of 1991 by Jerrold Rosenbaum of >Massachusetts >General Hospital found that patients on Prozac were not prone to >suicide any >more than patients on other medication. >Eli Lilly said, in a written response to questions from The Globe and >Mail: >"There is, to the contrary, published scientific evidence showing that >Prozac and medicines like it actually protect against such behaviour

Response:

Question:

i am a bit dubious about this study. i only skimmed it though… ALL antidepresants are associated with increased risk of suicidality to some extent, especially in the early stages of therapy. this sounds like a study trying to emulate the prozac one which has been largely disproven (though still highly controversial).  well what does everyone else think? Lynda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Use of Sertraline Linked to Suicidality > LONDON, May 30 (Reuters Health) – The use of sertraline might prompt some > patients to commit suicide, a UK researcher warns based on a study of > healthy volunteers. > In a double-blind, randomized crossover study, Dr. David Healy of the > University of Wales College of Medicine compared the effects of two > selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in 20 individuals, ages 28 > to 52, who had no history of psychiatric illness. > The study aimed to monitor the effects of the drugs on the state of well > being and "in particular the serenic effect that appears associated with the > use of SSRIs," Dr. Healy writes in the June issue of Primary Care > Psychiatry. > Subjects received either reboxetine (marketed as Edronax in the UK and as > Vestra in the US), 4 mg q.d. for 5 days and increased to 4 mg b.i.d. if > tolerated, or sertraline (Zoloft), 50 mg q.d. for 5 days, increased to 100 > mg b.i.d. if tolerated. Treatment lasted for a total of 2 weeks, followed by > a 2-week washout period and then crossover to the opposite arm. > None of the subjects had suicidal ideation on reboxetine although two > reported depression, Dr. Healy found. "In contrast, two developed suicidal > thoughts on sertraline," he writes. Within a few days of treatment both of > these patients reported feeling restless and "fidgety." > There is "no easy means of explaining what happened other than by invoking > an SSRI-induced suicidality," Dr. Nealy writes. "The mechanism…appears to > have been a combination of akathisia and emotional blunting, as well as > other features suggestive of an automatism." > He points out that the risk of drug-induced problems in nondepressed > volunteers is of concern because "antidepressants are commonly prescribed > for stress reactions." > Prim Care Psychiatry 2000;6:25-28.

Response:

Use of Sertraline Linked to Suicidality LONDON, May 30 (Reuters Health) – The use of sertraline might prompt some patients to commit suicide, a UK researcher warns based on a study of healthy volunteers. In a double-blind, randomized crossover study, Dr. David Healy of the University of Wales College of Medicine compared the effects of two selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in 20 individuals, ages 28 to 52, who had no history of psychiatric illness. The study aimed to monitor the effects of the drugs on the state of well being and "in particular the serenic effect that appears associated with the use of SSRIs," Dr. Healy writes in the June issue of Primary Care Psychiatry. Subjects received either reboxetine (marketed as Edronax in the UK and as Vestra in the US), 4 mg q.d. for 5 days and increased to 4 mg b.i.d. if tolerated, or sertraline (Zoloft), 50 mg q.d. for 5 days, increased to 100 mg b.i.d. if tolerated. Treatment lasted for a total of 2 weeks, followed by a 2-week washout period and then crossover to the opposite arm. None of the subjects had suicidal ideation on reboxetine although two reported depression, Dr. Healy found. "In contrast, two developed suicidal thoughts on sertraline," he writes. Within a few days of treatment both of these patients reported feeling restless and "fidgety." There is "no easy means of explaining what happened other than by invoking an SSRI-induced suicidality," Dr. Nealy writes. "The mechanism…appears to have been a combination of akathisia and emotional blunting, as well as other features suggestive of an automatism." He points out that the risk of drug-induced problems in nondepressed volunteers is of concern because "antidepressants are commonly prescribed for stress reactions." Prim Care Psychiatry 2000;6:25-28.

Response:

>i am a bit dubious about this study. i only skimmed it though… ALL >antidepresants are associated with increased risk of suicidality to some >extent, especially in the early stages of therapy. this sounds like a study >trying to emulate the prozac one which has been largely disproven (though >still highly controversial).  well what does everyone else think? >Lynda

This study is very strong evidence that if you give drugs meant for sick people to well people, you’re likely to make the well people sick.   Gee thanks, perfessor! TC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Use of Sertraline Linked to Suicidality > LONDON, May 30 (Reuters Health) – The use of sertraline might prompt some > patients to commit suicide, a UK researcher warns based on a study of > healthy volunteers. > In a double-blind, randomized crossover study, Dr. David Healy of the > University of Wales College of Medicine compared the effects of two > selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in 20 individuals, ages 28 > to 52, who had no history of psychiatric illness. > The study aimed to monitor the effects of the drugs on the state of well > being and "in particular the serenic effect that appears associated with >the > use of SSRIs," Dr. Healy writes in the June issue of Primary Care > Psychiatry. > Subjects received either reboxetine (marketed as Edronax in the UK and as > Vestra in the US), 4 mg q.d. for 5 days and increased to 4 mg b.i.d. if > tolerated, or sertraline (Zoloft), 50 mg q.d. for 5 days, increased to 100 > mg b.i.d. if tolerated. Treatment lasted for a total of 2 weeks, followed >by > a 2-week washout period and then crossover to the opposite arm. > None of the subjects had suicidal ideation on reboxetine although two > reported depression, Dr. Healy found. "In contrast, two developed suicidal > thoughts on sertraline," he writes. Within a few days of treatment both of > these patients reported feeling restless and "fidgety." > There is "no easy means of explaining what happened other than by invoking > an SSRI-induced suicidality," Dr. Nealy writes. "The mechanism…appears >to > have been a combination of akathisia and emotional blunting, as well as > other features suggestive of an automatism." > He points out that the risk of drug-induced problems in nondepressed > volunteers is of concern because "antidepressants are commonly prescribed > for stress reactions." > Prim Care Psychiatry 2000;6:25-28.

Response:

> x-no-archive: yes > > Use of Sertraline Linked to Suicidality > > LONDON, May 30 (Reuters Health) – The use of sertraline might prompt > some > > patients to commit suicide, a UK researcher warns based on a study of > > healthy volunteers.

This study used 20 "healthy" volunteers. Hardly a conclusive study.  Besides, sertraline is for people with PTSD and other mental problems. Testing it on healthy people could have any number of undesireable effects. Rick

Response: