SSRIs

Question:

James, I would hope everyone here saw the value of talk and drug therapy!  I still think Noah is a poor misguided soul who has to stick his/her nose in everyone elses biz…Of course Scientologists "hate" Frued. They dislike everything that isn’t L Ronian and they’re happy to let you know your own coyly pretending to have found inner peace (just to piss off everyone else). Unlike Q. Evilbastard I’m all for religious intolerence.  I just wish I could be there for their final realization that there is no heaven nor hell as they check out.  I’m in a MEAN mood tonight!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think there might be a fairly simple reasoning behind the Noah’s Dove > post.  I suspect these people to be Freudian analysts, or some other such > branch of psychology/psychiatry.  They most likely see (whether they are > conscious of it or not) psychopharmacology to mean the imminent death > of their branch of the field, and thus the end of their careers. > – Neil – > Umm…I JUST wanted to clear something up..because I think that people > think that there is this war between talk therapy and drug therapy. In > fact…quite the opposite. Most scientologists HATE Freud…and ANY type > of accomplished, social scientific therapy. Don’t forget..Freud was > quite the psychopharmacologist himself..dishing out "cocaine" as an > antidepressant. In fact, the APA advocates BOTH medication AND talk > therapy..both have shown to have positive value. What we DON’T need is > the "cult of scientologists" who offer nothing but criticism, "pull > yourself up by the bootstraps"…and a bunch of hot air. I hope we can > please keep this in mind:-) > James MacLachlan > — > "These signs, this space > Takes a path you didn’t choose > Stay strong, keep faith > There’s a change that’s coming through > Hold on, my love > It feels like Heaven’s coming down…" > The Tea Party, > "Heaven Coming Down"

Response:

>      My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s > case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and

Sounds like another case of one religion telling another how they’re allowed to function if you ask me. Were it up to me, all religions would be made illegal since they do nothing but suck the public purse dry for no apparent gain anyway. — –Qliphoth Evilbastard * Listowner, Esoteric-Emotions (http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/esoteric-emotions) "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." (Queen Amidala)

Response:

I will dismiss the LDS part with no farther argument. <grin> If you know where that comes from, you will see my little joke. Ralph

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I hate to point out the obvious, guys…Noahs Dove…you know, like Noahs > dove.  Probably not Scientologist, unless the Noah part is a ruse.  I think > he/she may have alot of the sentiments of the COS but my guess is Latter Day > Saints…well, perhaps an offshoot of. >     I have no love for the  Church of Scientology  but I have to say the > fervor of the Germans distaste and the depth of their resolve to put COS out > of business there is frightening.  I think Germans in general should stay > out of the business of persecuting minority religions, don’t you?(!) >      My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s > case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and > the IRS got pulled off.  There also were several national security > agencies > checking them out; there being the potential for the Church to develop > information usable to blackmail DOD employees with access to > classified information. >     Last I heard, the chief prosecutor of the German state of Bavaria was > working on proving Scientology to be a cult and a fraud and then ride them > out of town on a rail.  The most telling thing is that in an interview > back > in > the ’30s, Lron said that It would be marvelous to invent a religion and > use > it to make money. > – Neil – > >Noahs Dove, your gonna go to hell when you die. Why? Cause you are > >trying to make sick people even more miserable. If I had anything to do > >with it, your "Church of Scientology" would be outlawed and run out of > >this country.  It is no "religion" it is a cult. Cults are not real > >religions. Church of Scientology is a money making business/mind > >control/control freak organisation, not a real religion. Anybody who > >subscribes to the Scientology mindset or joins it is very weakminded. > >Withholding medical treatment for mentally ill people is sinful and > >anybody who advocates that is probably going to go to hell. Maybe we > >should send Delta Force to break you out of that Scientology compound > >and rescue you so you can be saved and deprogrammed. You have a lot of > >gaul coming on this NG, talking about the evils of psychiatric drugs > >when so many on here have serious problems and need aggressive > >treatments. Go away and quit wasting our time. That is an order > >goddammit. > >Life is a bitch, then you die…it’s true > >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

     My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and the IRS got pulled off.  There also were several national security agencies checking them out; there being the potential for the Church to develop information usable to blackmail DOD employees with access to classified information.     Last I heard, the chief prosecutor of the German state of Bavaria was working on proving Scientology to be a cult and a fraud and then ride them out of town on a rail.  The most telling thing is that in an interview back in the ’30s, Lron said that It would be marvelous to invent a religion and use it to make money. – Neil – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Noahs Dove, your gonna go to hell when you die. Why? Cause you are >trying to make sick people even more miserable. If I had anything to do >with it, your "Church of Scientology" would be outlawed and run out of >this country.  It is no "religion" it is a cult. Cults are not real >religions. Church of Scientology is a money making business/mind >control/control freak organisation, not a real religion. Anybody who >subscribes to the Scientology mindset or joins it is very weakminded. >Withholding medical treatment for mentally ill people is sinful and >anybody who advocates that is probably going to go to hell. Maybe we >should send Delta Force to break you out of that Scientology compound >and rescue you so you can be saved and deprogrammed. You have a lot of >gaul coming on this NG, talking about the evils of psychiatric drugs >when so many on here have serious problems and need aggressive >treatments. Go away and quit wasting our time. That is an order >goddammit. >Life is a bitch, then you die…it’s true >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

> I think there might be a fairly simple reasoning behind the Noah’s Dove > post.  I suspect these people to be Freudian analysts, or some other such > branch of psychology/psychiatry.  They most likely see (whether they are > conscious of it or not) psychopharmacology to mean the imminent death > of their branch of the field, and thus the end of their careers. > – Neil –

Umm…I JUST wanted to clear something up..because I think that people think that there is this war between talk therapy and drug therapy. In fact…quite the opposite. Most scientologists HATE Freud…and ANY type of accomplished, social scientific therapy. Don’t forget..Freud was quite the psychopharmacologist himself..dishing out "cocaine" as an antidepressant. In fact, the APA advocates BOTH medication AND talk therapy..both have shown to have positive value. What we DON’T need is the "cult of scientologists" who offer nothing but criticism, "pull yourself up by the bootstraps"…and a bunch of hot air. I hope we can please keep this in mind:-) James MacLachlan — "These signs, this space Takes a path you didn’t choose Stay strong, keep faith There’s a change that’s coming through Hold on, my love It feels like Heaven’s coming down…" The Tea Party, "Heaven Coming Down"

Response:

I hate to point out the obvious, guys…Noahs Dove…you know, like Noahs dove.  Probably not Scientologist, unless the Noah part is a ruse.  I think he/she may have alot of the sentiments of the COS but my guess is Latter Day Saints…well, perhaps an offshoot of.     I have no love for the  Church of Scientology  but I have to say the fervor of the Germans distaste and the depth of their resolve to put COS out of business there is frightening.  I think Germans in general should stay out of the business of persecuting minority religions, don’t you?(!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->      My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s > case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and > the IRS got pulled off.  There also were several national security agencies > checking them out; there being the potential for the Church to develop > information usable to blackmail DOD employees with access to > classified information. >     Last I heard, the chief prosecutor of the German state of Bavaria was > working on proving Scientology to be a cult and a fraud and then ride them > out of town on a rail.  The most telling thing is that in an interview back > in > the ’30s, Lron said that It would be marvelous to invent a religion and use > it to make money. > – Neil – >Noahs Dove, your gonna go to hell when you die. Why? Cause you are >trying to make sick people even more miserable. If I had anything to do >with it, your "Church of Scientology" would be outlawed and run out of >this country.  It is no "religion" it is a cult. Cults are not real >religions. Church of Scientology is a money making business/mind >control/control freak organisation, not a real religion. Anybody who >subscribes to the Scientology mindset or joins it is very weakminded. >Withholding medical treatment for mentally ill people is sinful and >anybody who advocates that is probably going to go to hell. Maybe we >should send Delta Force to break you out of that Scientology compound >and rescue you so you can be saved and deprogrammed. You have a lot of >gaul coming on this NG, talking about the evils of psychiatric drugs >when so many on here have serious problems and need aggressive >treatments. Go away and quit wasting our time. That is an order >goddammit. >Life is a bitch, then you die…it’s true >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I think there might be a fairly simple reasoning behind the Noah’s Dove post.  I suspect these people to be Freudian analysts, or some other such branch of psychology/psychiatry.  They most likely see (whether they are conscious of it or not) psychopharmacology to mean the imminent death of their branch of the field, and thus the end of their careers. – Neil – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The most salient irony in your posting derives from its header: your >handle. >But the rest certainly is ironic, too.  That a professional would >disseminate (much less draw in the first place) such simplistic and >meaningless conclusions is odd. >I’m not trying to imply that SSRIs couldn’t serve as an adjunctive >trigger to violent behavior–they can.  Almost EVERY AD on the market– >including the very first ones–can do that by triggering manic >reactions.  And mania, in a person already obsessed with violence and >revenge, could lead to what it did in this case. >But to suggest that this abberance is forthcoming in all who take SSRIs >is wrong in many ways. >JJM > http://www.drugawareness.org/ >    Columbine: Eric Harris was under the influence of the Prozac >clone, > LUVOX, at the time of the Littleton shooting. > A Morbid Welcome to my World. > Learning from this tragedy is the greatest gift we can give to those >who > lost their lives in each of these tragedies. > by Dr. Ann Tracy >    Littleton Colorado blew the door wide open to reveal to the world >the > pain and suffering I have witnessed on a daily basis since these >newer > serotonergic antidepressants (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, > Effexor, Serzone, etc.) hit the market. Eric Harris and Dylan >Klebold, > along with 12 classmates and a teacher lost their lives April 20 in > another preventable tragedy. This incident, like so many others >before > it, could save more lives than were lost IF this time we learn from >this > tragic and heart breaking incident. > If we don’t learn this time there will be another and another and > another Littleton, Colorado, Springfield, Oregon, Boise, Idaho, etc. > Learning from this tragedy is the greatest gift we can give to those >who > lost their lives in each of these tragedies. As Eric Harris was found >to > be under the influence of Luvox at the time of the tragedy, this must >be > a wake up call to the most extreme dangers of America’s most popular > medications – the new serotonergic antidepressants – Prozac, Zoloft, > Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, Effexor and Serzone. > Listed in the manufacturer’s warning as "frequent" adverse reactions >to > Luvox are "manic reaction" and "psychotic reaction." Of course >psychotic > reaction means the drug can induce what laymen would call insanity. > Mania is another slightly different and potentially very dangerous >form > of psychosis or insanity. the danger affects to both the patient and > those around him. Symptoms of mania include delusions of grandeur >(such > as planning to fly a plane into New York City and crash it into the > city), intense irritability and rages (as was witnessed in Eric >Harris’ > web site), criminal behavior including aggressive, violent, and >hostile > behaviors (all too obvious in this case),cravings for alcohol or >drugs > (Eric was reportedly drinking Jack Daniels.), drastic personality > changes swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other, extremely > deceitful, manipulative and controlling of all those around them, > although easily distracted they are very determined in acting upon >their > delusional thoughts, and very convincing to those around them of >their > perception of reality – perhaps because they, themselves, are so > convinced of the reality of their delusions, etc. > Periods of mania with delusional thoughts can persist for months and > years. It is living in a dream world or a fantasy world. And when the > brain has been programmed with violent video games, it would not be >at > all uncommon for those fantasies to become one’s "reality" in a manic > reaction. This is not a conscious state and is the method by which >these > drugs are so effective in merging fantasy with reality. > When you add to the alarming disclosure about the frequency of mania >and > psychosis with Luvox, the fact that "cough" is also listed as a > "frequent" adverse reaction to this medication the explosive >potential > is magnified greatly. The reason for the danger in this combination >of > cough and Luvox use lies in the interaction between popular cough > medications containing dextromethophan and the serotonergic > antidepressants. The mixing of these two can greatly increase the > possibility of a toxic reaction known as serotonin syndrome leading >to > PCP (Angel Dust) reactions. Would anyone have been surprised at Eric > Harris’ behavior if they knew he had been using PCP? Of course not! >The > tragedy lies in our ignorance of the drug interactions and the > negligence of the manufacturer to inform patients of this danger and >the > negligence of doctors and pharmacists in warning young patients and > their families of the dangerous potential psychotic reactions to >Luvox > or any of the other Prozac clones. > We witnessed the same type of drug-induced murderous rampage in the > Connecticut Lottery shooting just one year ago. Matthew Beck (see >below) > who worked at the lottery went to work where he shot and killed four > fellow workers in a Luvox induced psychotic rage before taking his >own > life. > How many deaths do we need to witness before we say, "Enough is >enough?" > In investigating 30 cases that have taken place over the last four >years > of something extremely rare before but becoming much more common – >women > committing murder and then attempting suicide – we also find an >alarming > link to these medications. Out of these 30 cases of mothers killing > their children or their husbands and then themselves, 22 were on > serotonergic medications at the time of the murder. This is an > alarmingly high figure! We had all better educate ourselves rapidly. > Before these drugs hit the market just over ten years ago these >things > were rare, now they are happening everywhere and the drugs are >lurking > behind the scenes in nearly every case. Society should demand an >answer > because we are the ones paying the ultimate price with our lives and >the > lives of our children while the drug companies rake in their millions >in > profits daily. > Waldner & Vickery Press Release: >    SSRI drugs like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Luvox–which was >apparently > prescribed for Eric Harris–can trigger violent behavior in some >people. > …we are extremely troubled by the hasty statements from the >American > Psychiatric Association indicating that "despite a decade of >research, > there is little valid evidence to prove a causal relationship between > the use of antidepressant medications and destructive behavior".What > "decade of research"? The fact is the large drug companies have > assiduously avoided any serious research into this lethal side >effect. > Note From Dr. Tracy: >    Matthew Beck, Accused of Killing Four in the Hartford Lottery >Shootings > also on Luvox. > A silent and seething employee went on a bloody rampage at >Connecticut > Lottery Corp. headquarters Friday, March 7, 1998, killing four senior > lottery officials before committing suicide. > Beck was taking at least two medications that physicians say are > commonly prescribed for anxiety, depression and obsessive-compulsive > disorders. Luvox is an anti-depressant used to treat an > obsessive-compulsive disorder, and Lorazepam is an anti-anxiety drug > similar to Valium. >– > Opinions: >    Eric Harris was taking Luvox (a Prozac-like drug) at the time of >the > Littleton murders. > by Peter R. Breggin, M.D > On April 29 the Washington Post confirmed that Eric Harris, the >leader > in the Littleton tragedy, was taking the psychiatric drug Luvox at >the > time of the murders. On April 30 the same newspaper published a story > quoting expert claims that Luvox is safe and has no association with > causing violence. In fact, Luvox and closely related drugs commonly > produce manic psychoses, aggression, and other behavioral >abnormalities > in children and young people. > Was the Littleton Shooting a Drug-Induced Mania? > While doctors interviewed by The Washington Post and CNN claim >there’s > no link between Luvox and aggressive behavior, the medical literature > gives a different picture. Luvox is the trade name for fluvoxamine, > which research shows can induce mania. > Doping our kids: Prescription drugs at root of violence, says expert > By David M. Bresnahan;