SSRIs

Question:

As well as suffering from SSRI pollution fish and mussels are being forcefed prozac deliberately by greedy people… Environmental Health Perspectives Volume 107, Supplement 6, December 1999 Pharmaceuticals and Personal Care Products in the Environment: Agents of Subtle Change? Christian G. Daughton1 and Thomas A. Ternes2 1Environmental Sciences Division, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, ORD/NERL, Las Vegas, Nevada USA; 2ESWE-Institute for Water Research and Water Technology, Wiesbaden-Schierstein, Germany http://www.fpinva.org/ProductsEnv.htm It has long been known that serotonin at concentrations of 10-4 to 10-3 M (~0.18-1.8 g/L) induces spawning in bivalves. Some commercial farmers make use of this by adding serotonin to induce spawning. Fong (76) found that Prozac (fluoxetine) and Luvox (fluvoxamine) are the most potent inducers ever found, eliciting spawning behavior in zebra mussels at aqueous concentrations many orders of magnitude lower than serotonin.  Fluoxetine elicited significant spawning in male mussels at concentrations of 10-7 M (~150

Question:

 In the article below, glutathione and various antidepressants were used to determine a method of treatment for depression. Both glutathione and the antidepressants were able to relieve depression. (Glutathione and the antidepressants were not used in combination with each other) Read about people that were suffering from depression that have used Immunocal to raise their glutathione levels. To define a few words to make the article easier to read. Glutathione: Glutathione is found in cells. The levels of glutathione can vary in the cells. SSRIs, other medications and toxins of all type lower the glutathione levels in your cells. Glutathione is the most important part of the cells when it comes to cleaning out all toxins. Vitamins will not even be absorbed into the cells if the glutathione levels are too low. GSH: GSH is glutathione. Immunocal raises glutathione levels in the cells by presenting the cells with the 3 amino acids necessary for the cells to make glutathione. The 3 amino acids must be presented to the cells in the proper order or sequence for the cells to use them to make glutathione. Substrate: Substance that is acted upon by an enzyme Article Glutathione as a cerebral substrate in depressive behavior. Behavior depression through inescapable foot shock stress in Swiss albino mice was measured on the basis of their performance in an open field test (OFT) and a forced swim test (FST). Glutathione (GSH) and various antidepressants (impipramine, maprotiline, fluvoxamine, trazodone, and alprazolam) were able to, either fully or partly prevent and/or reverse the shock-induced behavioral depression. The Glutathione (GSH) level was measured in the cerebral cortex, cerebellum, brain stem, and the hypothalamus in shocked mice to ascertain a possible correlation between brain GSH and stress-induced depression, under conditions of preshock and postshock antidepressant treatments as well as in the absence of the drugs. There was an appreciable depletion of cortical Glutathione (GSH) in shocked mice that corrected to varying degrees by the different antidepressants. The result suggest a close link between stress-induced behavioral depression, increased monoaminergic utilization, oxidative stress, and brain Glutathione (GSH). Source: Pharmacology Biochemical Behavior 1994 Aug; 48 (4):845-

Response:

> Article > Glutathione as a cerebral substrate in depressive behavior. > Behavior depression through inescapable foot shock stress in Swiss albino mice > was measured on the basis of their performance in an open field test (OFT) and > a forced swim test (FST).

Give me a break.  Just don’t have so many kids then you won’t have so many problems. Sick bastards. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Article >> Glutathione as a cerebral substrate in depressive behavior. >> Behavior depression through inescapable foot shock stress in Swiss albino >mice >> was measured on the basis of their performance in an open field test (OFT) >and >> a forced swim test (FST). >Give me a break.  Just don’t have so many kids >then you won’t have so many problems. Sick bastards. >Squiggles > Your response indicates you dismiss the subject.

My response indicates I don’t like the subject. > Do you know anything about the subject matter.

I can read, and i presume that is why this was posted to a public ng n’est pas? > I dont, but when I come across things I dont know anything about, especially > recommendations or information related to SSRI et al and what I can do about > having taking them with the conseqencces for me of having done so, I want to > know about the information and recommendations etc.

Well, then go ahead and glean the good parts. >  I post them just to see if anyone has knowledge bout this theory or that, this > treatment or that. > I like to hear what you know, if your reply is a result of some knowledge about > this either way, supportive or rejecting.

No, it’s a response to how the results were gotten. I stop there, because whatever profit is gotten from that torture is not something that interests me. It’s morally repugnant to me. Squiggles

Response:

> I completely missed your point, sorry. I will keep the offense taken to such in > mind. > I had no idea what you were replying to, l  thought you were talking bout me, > and  and thought,  then dismissed reminding you I only had one child! > Linda

No Linda, and it’s interesting that your reply should come at the heels of an article by Storm King posted just now, discussing mood and how that effects cyberspace communication and relations — yes, i saw the part about placing animals in a torture situation where they had no choice of escape and had to go through, and thought…. there must be a better way. But my mood of angst at the thought of the animals just got the better of me. Now i know that I take li, and if you ask me all i can say is that Cade used those rabbits to pee, then killed them.  That was many decades ago, and i don’t think they do lithium experiments anymore … ok ok someone is going to find something to make me feel like shit. Squiggles

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I completely missed your point, sorry. I will keep the offense taken to such in > mind. > I had no idea what you were replying to, l  thought you were talking bout me, > and  and thought,  then dismissed reminding you I only had one child! > Linda > No Linda, and it’s interesting that your reply should > come at the heels of an article by Storm King posted just now, > discussing mood and how that effects cyberspace communication > and relations — yes, i saw the part about placing animals > in a torture situation where they had no choice of escape and > had to go through, and thought…. there must be a better way. > But my mood of angst at the thought of the animals just got > the better of me. Now i know that I take li, and if you ask me > all i can say is that Cade used those rabbits to pee, then > killed them.  That was many decades ago, and i don’t think > they do lithium experiments anymore … ok ok someone is > going to find something to make me feel like shit. > Squiggles

Vivisection and animal toture is vile and disgusting.. It can be argued in some cases a neccessary evil in life saving research.. much of it however is completely trivial.. Thank goodness most youngsters tend to share your views . animal abusers are increasingly on the defensive .. In the UK one of the chief offenders Huntingdon Life Sciences  needed the Government to step in as no bank would touch them with a bargepole after the widespread and persistent demonstrations against their vile activities. Mental patients too have been subjected to disgusting experimentation in the name of the pursuit of knowledge . Bob

Response:

>Mental patients too have been subjected to disgusting experimentation in the >name of the pursuit of knowledge . >Bob

Goes to show at what pains we will go to feel well…… —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

>Mental patients too have been subjected to disgusting experimentation in the >name of the pursuit of knowledge . >Bob > Goes to show at what pains we will go to feel well……

Oh Im not talking about drug trials or anything some of the stuff that went on would truly make you weep at mans inhumanity to man.. Except mental patients were considered less than human and expendable with no-one to care if they lived or died.. as some did. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Linda, I’m not going to respond to this post because I believe you are ill right now. The deterioration in your patterns of writing and thought over recent weeks makes that clear to me and to others here. I would have a lot to say if I thought you were in a frame of mind that allowed you to hear it, but since you’re not, I’m not going to argue with you. It seems to make the situation worse, not better, and I want to see you get better.  Until you’re in a healthier condition, this is the only response I’m going to make to you, no matter how much I disagree with what you post and no matter what you say about me or others here. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > I completely missed your point, sorry. I will keep the offense taken to >such in >> > mind. >> > I had no idea what you were replying to, l  thought you were talking >bout me, >> > and  and thought,  then dismissed reminding you I only had one child! >> > Linda >> No Linda, and it’s interesting that your reply should >> come at the heels of an article by Storm King posted just now, >> discussing mood and how that effects cyberspace communication >> and relations — >with the bad behaved manics choosing the create the climate and environment >trolling this NG its effected me to think first such was a personal attack, but >then considering the author, I thought maybe not, you might have blinders are >not seeing something so reply with a request to be enlightened, rather than >assume what your first thought was. >So yes, I agree how the climate created by some effects all, even those seeking >to post posts giving hope, totally infected! > yes, i saw the part about placing animals >> in a torture situation where they had no choice of escape and >> had to go through, and thought…. there must be a better way. >> But my mood of angst at the thought of the animals just got >> the better of me. Now i know that I take li, and if you ask me >> all i can say is that Cade used those rabbits to pee, then >> killed them.  That was many decades ago, and i don’t think >> they do lithium experiments anymore … ok ok someone is >> going to find something to make me feel like shit. >> Squiggles >Vivisection and animal toture is vile and disgusting.. >It can be argued in some cases a neccessary evil in life saving research.. >much of it however is completely trivial.. >Thank goodness most youngsters tend to share your views . >animal abusers are increasingly on the defensive .. >In the UK one of the chief offenders >Huntingdon Life Sciences  needed the Government to step in as no bank would >touch them with a bargepole after the widespread and persistent >demonstrations >against their vile activities. >Mental patients too have been subjected to disgusting experimentation in the >name of the pursuit of knowledge . >Many scandals in the US bout using mental patients for experiments, recently >experiements on children been outed! > I think the SSRI experiment unresearched unproved chemical to  millions round >the world not knowing what it really do positively and negatively will go down >in history as one of the biggest scandals ever, when all the truth comes out, >which it will >Linda . >Bob

Response:

Question:

I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; i don’t know if this is due to the drug or just a shitty attitude; Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; and i would think that it must be against the Charter of this newsgroup. I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating and that it can do a lot of harm to people who are already struggling and relying on this for a connection to a supportive net of cyberfriends. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles

Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not depressed, in a good way of course. As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor. When I go on antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some. Im sorry that my warped jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it. I get sick and fucking tired of listening to anti-psychiatry medication assholes like Steven Kaess and this FGM character coming onto ASDM and putting down depressives who take antidepressants. Its downright incorrect information and its discriminatory towards we the mentally ill. I dont like coming onto ASDM to see Kaess and FGM’s smartalecky condescending tones towards depressives such as myself. FGM’s posts are downright insulting to depressives and he isnt joking about it either. Someone must stand up to these individuals Irene. I know you are an extremely sensitive person Irene, you have told me that you are in private Emails. I realize you are probably a "people pleaser" and hate to see violent arguments or disagreements among people. You probably like to see compromise and agreement among people. I understand that but you also need to understand some people dont see it that way, some people believe in fighting back against the discrimination against the severely mentally ill. Thats why many times I am extremely sarcastic and pissy towards individuals such as Steve Kaess, Bob Whelan and this FGM character. Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles. They should be your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness. These people do not represent your interests at all and they need to be stood up to and put in their places. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles > Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by > depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not > depressed, in a good way of course. As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I > cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor. When I go on > antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some. Im sorry that my warped > jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything > goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it.

Eric, It’s true that this is an alt. group; nevertheless i think that others too are insulted by your outbursts; > Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles. They should be > your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness. These people do not > represent your interests at all and they need to be stood up to and put in > their places. > Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

I don’t know who my friends or my enemies are on the NET frankly, because i think there is no way of telling, and because i believe that these terms are kind of meaningless anyway on the NET, i concentrate on expressing my own views as best i can, and i also just try to get practical advice – but at the end of the day, i have to be the judge – the thing about the NET, especially in support mode, is that you are ultimately in control; if you decide to give up that control, you give up to unknown factors. Anyway, i can see that you have your cowboy hat on and you’re riding a very colourful horse; as i said, it’s very hard to prove who is who on the NET, and whether you are abrasive or not, i think that it’s only fair to give proof of identification when making personal accusations. Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to >increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have >noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; >i don’t know if this is due to the drug >or just a shitty attitude; >Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; >and i would think that it must be against >the Charter of this newsgroup. >I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating >and that it can do a lot of harm to people >who are already struggling and relying on >this for a connection to a supportive net >of cyberfriends. >Squiggles > Squiggles, this is what my personality was like before I got nailed by > depression. I do have an aggressive undertone to my personality when not > depressed, in a good way of course.

Yes I am sure it would help you in, say, a prison experience, or perhaps the Marines. > As in I tell it like it is…Im direct I > cut thru the bullshit. I also have a warped sense of humor.

And you are out of touch with reality and demonstrating strong  symptoms of mania. > When I go on > antidepressants my sense of humor comes back some.

Yes your Ho post had em laughing, eric.  Do you like the idea of woman being slapped around to shut them up?  Perhaps such images cause you intense excitement, eric.  After all beating up people weaker then you is a good way to feel good about yourself.  If you are a psychopath. > Im sorry that my warped > jokes insult you, but this is an "alt" newsgroup which means about anything > goes. Its also unmoderated. Deal with it.

We do, too bad you seem unable to , eric. > I get sick and fucking tired of listening to anti-psychiatry medication > assholes like Steven Kaess and this FGM character coming onto ASDM and putting > down depressives who take antidepressants.

Your inability to comprehend my posts is most unsettling.  I suggest you try to read slower, perhaps sounding out each word.  Subtle seems to be a word you never learned.  FGM is a different person then me, I have no resemblance to FGM.  I do not say that  folks chose to be depressed.  I do think you chose the dx because depression in the medical model is much easier to accept and does not require you to take any responsibility for your true state. > Its downright incorrect information

Even though whenever I post strong proof of my statements you ignore it.  Simple denial will no longer work, eric. > and its discriminatory towards we the mentally ill.

There is no discrimination toward the mentally ill in my posts, but perhaps you might have some elements of a persecution complex, eric. > I dont like coming onto > ASDM to see Kaess and FGM’s smartalecky condescending tones towards depressives > such as myself.

You are not representative of the great majority of depressives.  You are like a black man who acts badly, perhaps breaks the law, and then blames the result on his race.  The way you are treated is not in any respect indicative of peoples general attitude toward depressives in general, eric.  It’s just an indication of the opinion people hold about you. > FGM’s posts are downright insulting to depressives and he isnt > joking about it either. Someone must stand up to these individuals Irene.

And you are the sheriff round these parts, eric? > I know you are an extremely sensitive person Irene, you have told me that you > are in private Emails. I realize you are probably a "people pleaser" and hate > to see violent arguments or disagreements among people. You probably like to > see compromise and agreement among people. I understand that but you also need > to understand some people dont see it that way, some people believe in fighting > back against the discrimination against the severely mentally ill. Thats why > many times I am extremely sarcastic and pissy towards individuals such as Steve > Kaess, Bob Whelan and this FGM character. > Individuals such as Steven Kaess and FGM are my enemy Squiggles.

You are unable to differentiate between enemies and those who disagree with you. Further evidence of your impaired cognitive ability.  Or perhaps you just never had the ability in the first place, lost boy. > They should be > your enemy as well because you have serious mental illness.

So here is the eric’s logic tree: Steve disagrees with me I am mentally ill Steve attacks my ideas about mental illness Steve attacks me Steve is my enemy Steve is the enemy of every person with mental illness If you accept this, squigglie, I am your enemy. > These people do not > represent your interests at all

So you are able to dictate to people what their interests are.  It is interesting to see you acting in the fashion of an authority figure in the ‘total institution’ model you presented recently.  Your idolization of psychiatrists is so total that you now posit that you are the person who should define others legitimate interests, eric. > and they need to be stood up to

Standing up to a person does not include calling them names, it does consist of offering counter arguments and facts, rather then your reiteration of your undefended themes, eric. > and put in > their places.

What place would that be, lost boy? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric > My defense system requires me to claim that steroids caused my > depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://www.ect.org

Response:

Here is the latest study on Luvox for anxiety, albeit with children: Walkup, John T.. Labellarte, Michael J.. Riddle, Mark A.. Pine, Daniel S.. Greenhill, Laurence. Klein, Rachel. Davies, Mark. Sweeney, Michael. Abikoff, Howard et al. Fluvoxamine for the Treatment of Anxiety Disorders in Children and Adolescents. New England Journal of Medicine. 344(17):1279-1285, April 26, 2001: Our report demonstrates the efficacy of fluvoxamine in the treatment of children with social phobia, separation anxiety disorder, or generalized anxiety disorder. Fluvoxamine treatment was generally well tolerated but was associated with significantly more gastrointestinal symptoms, as found in other trials, [6,7,13-17] and with greater increases in children’s levels of activity than was placebo. Effects on activity have been found in previous trials of selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors in children, particularly in children younger than 13 years of age, [7] but such effects typically have not been found in adults. [12-14] This increase in activity in children may relate to subjective effects in adults taking these drugs, who sometimes report increases in energy. Regardless of the mechanism, the side effects in the fluvoxamine group were usually mild. Only 5 of the 63 children in the fluvoxamine group discontinued treatment as a result of adverse events, as compared with 1 of the 65 children in the placebo group. The efficacy of treatment with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors for anxiety in children in our trial is consistent with data obtained in studies of adults. Panic disorder, social phobia, and obsessive-compulsive disorder are the three specific anxiety disorders in adults whose treatment with these drugs has been studied most intensively. [12-15] In general, approximately 50 to 70 percent of patients with these disorders respond to therapy with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors; response rates in patients with panic disorder are usually higher than in patients with the other disorders. The results of our trial in children with social phobia, separation anxiety disorder, and generalized anxiety disorder are also consistent with the results of trials of these drugs in children with obsessive-compulsive disorder and major depression. [6,7,16,17,26]

Response:

goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am wondering if LUVOX is likely to > increase anxiety and aggression initially; I have > noticed a real turn for the worse in Eric; > i don’t know if this is due to the drug > or just a shitty attitude; > Anyway, this "talk" is not good for anyone; > and i would think that it must be against > the Charter of this newsgroup. > I’d like to suggest that this is degenerating > and that it can do a lot of harm to people > who are already struggling and relying on > this for a connection to a supportive net > of cyberfriends. > Squiggles

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken wings and learn to fly all your life you were only waiting for this moment to arrive ~

Response:

> goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite > now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary.

you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not Squiggles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite >now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. > I agree…since going back on the meds my blood pressure is now under control > and I can tolerate antidepressants again like I used to. And by going back on a > simple SSRI, I find myself no longer the sappy, super guilty, worried, > pussified wussyboy I was off meds for most of the past seven or eight months. I > find my "old"  personality returning somewhat. Still nowhere even close to > normal but certainly better than I am off the meds. Id say Im currently at oh, > 30%. While for most of the past six or seven months Id say I was oh,  5%. > Sappy, self effacing and "super nice" is not the real Eric. I do indeed have a > warped sense of humor. Maybe I should keep it off the newsgroup, I dont know. > Lord knows any oldtimers from ASDM like Mike or some of the people who dont > hang out here anymore know how warped I can be. Its all in good fun though and > just joking around.

Further evidence of a pattern of refusal to take responsibility for your actions, eric. When do you cut your first album?  When daddies money comes through? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric > Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression > MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) > http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

Eric is simply feeling like himself again. Thats all there is too it. Hes not being aggressive because of the meds..DUH! He is feeling better enough to show his aggression now. This is natural for him. Enough of the anti med crusade ay? I’m not sure what is motivating your statements now. Do you?

Response:

>Anna likes hate and saying hateful things and likes Eric and anyone the more >hateful they get. For her the worse someone gets hateful wise, its her opinion >they are improving, while anyone getting better is from her perspective >becoming worse. >Linda

Anna is a very sweet person and a friend, when you push buttons bad things tend to happen with people. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> goly squiggles i personally think that eric is doing pretty well rite >> now…. that is just my observation wich i can quantify if necessary. >you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not >Squiggles > I dont think its true anna knows Eric better than you, Squiggles you seem to > know and understand Eric as well or better than anyone here. > Anna likes hate and saying hateful things and likes Eric and anyone the more > hateful they get. For her the worse someone gets hateful wise, its her opinion > they are improving, while anyone getting better is from her perspective > becoming worse. > Linda

Oh ok – then it may have been satire – went right by me; I don’t wanna play this game.  Leaves a bad taste for maybe days; Squiggles

Response:

> you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not

ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you hate my guts or want to see me dead. here goes. the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: he sounds more cheerful. he sounds more energetic. he is able to make jokes. he is able to joke about sex. he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control ummmm….. let see. will that do for now? we can discuss this without killing each other now, becuase we are CIVILISED human beings, rite? > Squiggles

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken wings and learn to fly all your life you were only waiting for this moment to arrive ~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> you probably know him better than i do – quantification? sure; why not > ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a > meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other > potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to > realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you > hate my guts or want to see me dead. > here goes. > the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: > he sounds more cheerful. > he sounds more energetic. > he is able to make jokes. > he is able to joke about sex. > he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just > sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good > he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control > ummmm….. let see. > will that do for now? > we can discuss this without killing each other now, becuase we are > CIVILISED human beings, rite?

Diana, I take it you are referring to both of us when you say we are civilized – thanks.  Well, i have my uncivilized streak, but yes i appreciate your analysis of Eric.  I still say, he’s a writer  - nobody i know writes like that without an education in English Lit. Squiggles

Response:

> > ok im now gonna demonstrate for everybody what it means to ‘quantify’ a > meaningless statement like your own opinion with observations or other > potential evidence that might be discussable. ps, i am mature enough to > realize that just becuase you ask me a stupid question, doesnt mean you > hate my guts or want to see me dead. > here goes. > the reasons i think eric is seeming ‘better’ as i see it: > he sounds more cheerful. > he sounds more energetic. > he is able to make jokes.

All symptomatic of mania as well. > he is able to joke about sex.

His infamous ho posting?? > he is able to express his opinion and thoughts more clearly without just > sounding like someone who really doesnt feel very good

Yes his range of insults and curses is becoming more varied, and he has started to attempt to support his points by extensive misrepresentation of various sources. > he reports himself his blood pressure is better under control

Compliant with meds… > ummmm….. let see. > will that do for now?

Depends on your definition of better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

Thanks Jay, I had just written a response to you saying that I don’t suspect it to be an issue, but I’ll read through this first and then deal with this tomorrow. John

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tomorrow will be two weeks on this stuff. Spend a lot of time feeling >terrible. >I feel much worse than before I added it. The 50mg Serzone seems to have no >effect on it. Today I didn’t take the Serzone and just took 50mg of Luvox. >Felt >pretty poor all day. >So tonight I took a 50mg of Serzone because my concern is, if after another >few >days of this sh*t I don’t feel better, I’ll have to just stick to Serzone. >Serzone works pretty well for me. This Luvox is kicking me in the teeth! >How freaking long should I give this stuff? >I believe the rule of thumb is minimum 6 weeks before begins to do good things.

If you have unacceptable reaction with the drug though, best talk to doc and try something else. If it’s just not working immediately Gem is right they need weeks to kick in. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

>Robert writes: >If you have unacceptable reaction with the drug though, best talk to >doc and try something else. If it’s just not working immediately Gem >is right they need weeks to kick in.

Well, I feel much better today. I took a 25mg of Luvox this morning. No Serzone today. I’m going to drop Serzone and see how well Luvox does by itself. JCRYIAD

Response:

John: Here is the info on Serzone/SSRI(which Luvox is) combination. This is from the very trusted site, http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/ (many on here will agree to that.) This is long…so read as much as you can, and see why the combo can cause problems: SSRIs + nefazodone —- The patient seemed to develop unpleasant stimulation from the combination [of fluoxetine and nefazodone]. –Furey A. Lerro Nefazodone is metabolized to m-CPP, which is itself metabolized by CYP 2D6. m-CPP is anxiogenic, and in patients who get higher levels of this metabolite, anxiety and insomnia may occur. In some of these patients, levels are raised further by the fluoxetine. —- I recently was covering for a colleague whose patient went to a pharmacy for prescriptions for Zoloft (sertraline) and Serzone (nefazodone), which she was taking in combination. The pharmacist called because she had not heard of the combination. When I talked with my colleague, he said he had been using the two to potentiate each other with considerable success in doses of up to 150 mg of Zoloft and 600 mg of Serzone. He had also been using Zoloft blood levels to spot "rapid metabolizers". If the blood level of Zoloft was low, he felt comfortable raising the dose of *Serzone* up to 1000 mg. Are you using Zoloft or any other SSRI plus Serzone? I wouldn’t. The pharmacology of the combination is not obvious because of complex serotonin effects (reuptake blockade and blockade of S2), norepinephrine, etc. I would consider any novel combination (one without at least a case series published) to be a Phase I drug study and certainly would require IRB approval of a written informed consent form. After all, it can’t be a "therapeutic use" if you really don’t have a clue what is going to happen. —- How do the SSRIs interefere with trazodone metabolism? I am thinking specifically about m-CPP, which could be anxiogenic. m-CPP [a metabolite of trazodone and nefazodone] is metabolized by CYP 2D6 (possibly also by CYP 3A), therefore medications like fluoxetine and paroxetine (potent 2D6 inhibitors) are more likely to cause elevations (about 2-4 fold) in m-CPP. In contrast, venlafaxine, bupropion, mirtazipine, sertraline, and possibly fluvoxamine (potent 3A, but weak 2D6 inhibitors) are less likely to interact. Interestingly, alprazolam has been shown to double m-CPP levels as well. Whether this clinically results in anxiogenic effects is not proven. We do know that m-CPP as a probe for panic is psychoactive. —- I had a patient who I switched from fluoxetine to nefazodone on what I thought to be a slow double taper, however, the patient experienced either a serotonin syndrome or possibly effects from a metabolite whose metabolism was inhibited. The patient eventually cleared, but only after several rough days with ataxia, slurred speech, a subjective feeling of confusion, GI pain and bloating. —- Has anyone had experience with the combination of nefazodone and fluvoxamine? It depends on how you are using the combination. I have not seen "augmentation" with these two, but I have seen folks use the combination of nefazdone and an SSRI for selective manipulation of side effects. If you desire the later, consider generic trazodone as a much less expensive modulator of the SSRI. Plan on substantial pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic augmentation. For instance, both drugs inhibit CYP 3A4, a pathway used by both drugs for their metabolism. I would use lower doses of both nefazodone and fluvoxamine. NB: This combination will also significantly interact with many other drugs which use this pathway. There is additive inhibiton of this enzyme, and I would *avoid* this combination in patients on triazolobenzodiazepines, steroids of any kind, or cyclosporine and consider it contraindicated with cisapride, terfenadine, astemizole, or triazolam. (There are cases of benzodiazepine, cyclosporine, and terfenadine toxicity with either nefazodone or fluvoxamine alone.) Also, both inhibit the serotonin uptake pump (serotonin transporter), so at full doses, the possibility of serotonin syndrome is real. When I have seen the combination used, it is usually low doses of nefazodone to block out the serotonin 2 receptor mediated adverse effects of the SSRI, e.g., insomnia or sexual dysfunction. However, I have not seen that done specifically with fluvoxamine. —- I just had a call from the husband of a rather stolid, reliable 50-ish woman who came to the phone and complained of a terrible headache with nausea and sweats like she’d never had before. Her thinking seemed clear and rational. She had been on Zoloft (sertraline), and I had switched her to Serzone (nefazodone) because that dose of Zoloft was incompletely effective and was causing decreased libido. —- I believe that the switch from an SSRI to nefazadone can be an awkward and unpleasant one, as I recall that an incomplete washout of the SSRI prior to initiation of nefazadone contributes to the accumulation a particular metabolite of nefazadone, m-CPP, causing the aforementioned symptoms. Reccomendations for a smoother transition include waiting for a 5 half-life washout of the SSRI or starting the nefazadone at a fraction of the typical starting dose (e.g., 25 or 50 mg bid). —- As I understand it, m-CPP, which stands for meta-chlorophenylpiperazine, is one of 3 primary metabolites of nefazadone. It has, reportedly, an agonist effect at the 5-HT2c receptor throughout the CNS. Typically, stimulation of 2c will initially produce some degree of anxiety, restlessness, even dysphoria; interestingly, this effect seems to be short-lived and appears eventually to contribute to anxiolysis and affective improvement. SSRIs typically have an antagonist effect at 2c. Therefore, when an SSRI is discontinued, its 2c antagonism is lost. Now, add nefazadone, with m-CPP’s 2c agonism, and you’ve created something of a 2c "double-whammy", resulting in profound dysphoria, anxiety, and such. While likely a time-limited effect, I hear it is quite potent, and hence the SSRI taper and gradual nefazadone introduction crossover approach is recommended. Worthy of note, trazodone (Desyrel) also has m-CPP as a metabolite. Hence, I imagine, similar caution may be warranted when starting trazodone concomitant with SSRI discontinuation. —- I have reviewed my notes on this topic from Norman Sussman’s lecture at NYU last March. He recommended that nefazadone be started and tapered up to 150 mg while the patient is still on the SSRI. Incidentally, rebound of 5-HT2c may cause the symptoms associated with stopping short half-life SSRIs too quickly. —- Stahl states it succinctly: 4% of Caucasians lack the enzyme P450 2D6. Prior treatment with SSRIs inhibits P450 2D6. If 2D6 is [lacking or] inhibited and nefazadone is administered, then m-CPP can be produced, leading to stimulation rather than blockade of 5-HT2a/2c receptors causing the opposite effects of the parent compound (nefazodone itself)… Agitation and flu-like distress upon first dosing (with nefazadone) may indicate genetic lack of 2D6 or SSRI induced inhibition. He recommends, therefore, titrating down on the SSRI and gradually up on nefazodone to lessen side effects. Stahl’s book, Essential Psychopharmacology : Neuroscientific Basis and Practical Applications is excellent and very clear with many diagrams. —- I have not seen the data to support the 5-HT2c antagonist effects of SSRIs… The role of the 5-HT2a receptor and its inter-relationship with the 2c receptor must also be factored in. 2a indirect agonism via reuptake inhibition leads to sexual dysfunction. 2a blockade (e.g., from nefazodone or mirtazapine) improves sexual function. 2c antagonism accentuates 2a agonism (these are reciprocal … read more »

Response:

> How freaking long should I give this stuff?

this is interesting question….. in my experience, the ones that made me sick right away, did -not- get better… id be interested to know if others got the same reaction….. for me,  if it made me feel that bad right at first, it usually only got worse….. it would be interesting to see how often that happened……. good luck > John

– "it is  so easy to return to our spirit world from where we came.  life is not easy. but life is not nearly so hard when we honor the self…."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tomorrow will be two weeks on this stuff. Spend a lot of time feeling >terrible. >I feel much worse than before I added it. The 50mg Serzone seems to have no >effect on it. Today I didn’t take the Serzone and just took 50mg of Luvox. >Felt >pretty poor all day. >So tonight I took a 50mg of Serzone because my concern is, if after another >few >days of this sh*t I don’t feel better, I’ll have to just stick to Serzone. >Serzone works pretty well for me. This Luvox is kicking me in the teeth! >How freaking long should I give this stuff? >John

Yikes! Hang on here a second..umm…there is some stuff on ‘medline’ about the problems of adding Serzone to an SSRI (Like Luvox). I will find it and post it. You may have to pick one or the other. In brief, the Serzone can cause problems in mixing SSRI’s with it. I will post the info. If Serzone relieves most of your symptoms, stick with it. Even there is a possibility Luvox may work, but there is no evidence it is *better* then Serzone. I will post the Medline stuff..so keep an eye out. Jay

Response:

Tomorrow will be two weeks on this stuff. Spend a lot of time feeling terrible. I feel much worse than before I added it. The 50mg Serzone seems to have no effect on it. Today I didn’t take the Serzone and just took 50mg of Luvox. Felt pretty poor all day. So tonight I took a 50mg of Serzone because my concern is, if after another few days of this sh*t I don’t feel better, I’ll have to just stick to Serzone. Serzone works pretty well for me. This Luvox is kicking me in the teeth! How freaking long should I give this stuff? John

Response:

Question:

I have terrible physical symtpoms (feeling poisoned and just generally sick) every few days.  Docs say I’m healthy and it must be from anxiety and OCD. Buspar did nothing.   Prozac and Zoloft made me feel worse than ever. Valium helps a lot but some days it fails me (I take it daily anyway) and that’s why I need something better.   Suggestions?

Response:

Neurontin, maybe. Its not specific for OCD but from what you described and from my own experience a short trial (two or three weeks) of a medium dosage range 600 to 1800mg might determine if it would be helpful to you.  Also if the Valium is not operating up to par a couple of things you could try is oral GABA tablets to possibly restore somewhat the benificial Valium effect and also I believe some research ( I can’t recall the source) that niacinamide (not the nicotinic acid version of vit. b-3-Niacin) has a benzo receptor influence which might potentiate the valium somewhat hopefully to the point where you will get efficacious benifits from your Meds.(remember,amide form, commonaly in B-complex pills)  No guaranty that this will meet your needs but it is cheap and easy and safe to try. …Except for the Neurontin, its safer than most and easy to try but it aint cheap. If it works for you, if you’re a full responder then it is DEFINITELY worth it.  I can’t give you an opinion on clonipramine (Anafranil) but am leery of all heterocyclics. Luvox (fluvoxamine) can have a decent antidepressant and OCD effect but side effects could be a problem. It varies alot with each person so there is no way to know except to try. If your Doc has DX’d you OCD I doubt there would be any problem in getting a script for it. If I can think of anything else i’ll post it. Good Luck!    J.D.

Response:

How long were you on  Prozac and/or Zoloft?  The SSRIs are the drug of choice for OCD disorders.  If you gave either of them fewer than four weeks, you should try again. JM

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have terrible physical symtpoms (feeling poisoned and just generally sick) > every few days.  Docs say I’m healthy and it must be from anxiety and OCD. > Buspar did nothing.   Prozac and Zoloft made me feel worse than ever. > Valium helps a lot but some days it fails me (I take it daily anyway) and > that’s why I need something better.   Suggestions?

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>      However, there is incontrovertible evidence that Eric Harris was >>in fact taking Luvox at the time he committed the murders. >>Through Freedom of Information, Dr. Peter Breggin obtained a report from >>the manufacturer of Luvox, Solvay, to the Food and Drug >>Administration (FDA).  Solvay reported that the autopsy findings on Eric >>Harris showed that he had a

Question:

James, I would hope everyone here saw the value of talk and drug therapy!  I still think Noah is a poor misguided soul who has to stick his/her nose in everyone elses biz…Of course Scientologists "hate" Frued. They dislike everything that isn’t L Ronian and they’re happy to let you know your own coyly pretending to have found inner peace (just to piss off everyone else). Unlike Q. Evilbastard I’m all for religious intolerence.  I just wish I could be there for their final realization that there is no heaven nor hell as they check out.  I’m in a MEAN mood tonight!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think there might be a fairly simple reasoning behind the Noah’s Dove > post.  I suspect these people to be Freudian analysts, or some other such > branch of psychology/psychiatry.  They most likely see (whether they are > conscious of it or not) psychopharmacology to mean the imminent death > of their branch of the field, and thus the end of their careers. > – Neil – > Umm…I JUST wanted to clear something up..because I think that people > think that there is this war between talk therapy and drug therapy. In > fact…quite the opposite. Most scientologists HATE Freud…and ANY type > of accomplished, social scientific therapy. Don’t forget..Freud was > quite the psychopharmacologist himself..dishing out "cocaine" as an > antidepressant. In fact, the APA advocates BOTH medication AND talk > therapy..both have shown to have positive value. What we DON’T need is > the "cult of scientologists" who offer nothing but criticism, "pull > yourself up by the bootstraps"…and a bunch of hot air. I hope we can > please keep this in mind:-) > James MacLachlan > — > "These signs, this space > Takes a path you didn’t choose > Stay strong, keep faith > There’s a change that’s coming through > Hold on, my love > It feels like Heaven’s coming down…" > The Tea Party, > "Heaven Coming Down"

Response:

>      My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s > case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and

Sounds like another case of one religion telling another how they’re allowed to function if you ask me. Were it up to me, all religions would be made illegal since they do nothing but suck the public purse dry for no apparent gain anyway. — –Qliphoth Evilbastard * Listowner, Esoteric-Emotions (http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/esoteric-emotions) "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." (Queen Amidala)

Response:

I will dismiss the LDS part with no farther argument. <grin> If you know where that comes from, you will see my little joke. Ralph

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I hate to point out the obvious, guys…Noahs Dove…you know, like Noahs > dove.  Probably not Scientologist, unless the Noah part is a ruse.  I think > he/she may have alot of the sentiments of the COS but my guess is Latter Day > Saints…well, perhaps an offshoot of. >     I have no love for the  Church of Scientology  but I have to say the > fervor of the Germans distaste and the depth of their resolve to put COS out > of business there is frightening.  I think Germans in general should stay > out of the business of persecuting minority religions, don’t you?(!) >      My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s > case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and > the IRS got pulled off.  There also were several national security > agencies > checking them out; there being the potential for the Church to develop > information usable to blackmail DOD employees with access to > classified information. >     Last I heard, the chief prosecutor of the German state of Bavaria was > working on proving Scientology to be a cult and a fraud and then ride them > out of town on a rail.  The most telling thing is that in an interview > back > in > the ’30s, Lron said that It would be marvelous to invent a religion and > use > it to make money. > – Neil – > >Noahs Dove, your gonna go to hell when you die. Why? Cause you are > >trying to make sick people even more miserable. If I had anything to do > >with it, your "Church of Scientology" would be outlawed and run out of > >this country.  It is no "religion" it is a cult. Cults are not real > >religions. Church of Scientology is a money making business/mind > >control/control freak organisation, not a real religion. Anybody who > >subscribes to the Scientology mindset or joins it is very weakminded. > >Withholding medical treatment for mentally ill people is sinful and > >anybody who advocates that is probably going to go to hell. Maybe we > >should send Delta Force to break you out of that Scientology compound > >and rescue you so you can be saved and deprogrammed. You have a lot of > >gaul coming on this NG, talking about the evils of psychiatric drugs > >when so many on here have serious problems and need aggressive > >treatments. Go away and quit wasting our time. That is an order > >goddammit. > >Life is a bitch, then you die…it’s true > >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

     My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and the IRS got pulled off.  There also were several national security agencies checking them out; there being the potential for the Church to develop information usable to blackmail DOD employees with access to classified information.     Last I heard, the chief prosecutor of the German state of Bavaria was working on proving Scientology to be a cult and a fraud and then ride them out of town on a rail.  The most telling thing is that in an interview back in the ’30s, Lron said that It would be marvelous to invent a religion and use it to make money. – Neil – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Noahs Dove, your gonna go to hell when you die. Why? Cause you are >trying to make sick people even more miserable. If I had anything to do >with it, your "Church of Scientology" would be outlawed and run out of >this country.  It is no "religion" it is a cult. Cults are not real >religions. Church of Scientology is a money making business/mind >control/control freak organisation, not a real religion. Anybody who >subscribes to the Scientology mindset or joins it is very weakminded. >Withholding medical treatment for mentally ill people is sinful and >anybody who advocates that is probably going to go to hell. Maybe we >should send Delta Force to break you out of that Scientology compound >and rescue you so you can be saved and deprogrammed. You have a lot of >gaul coming on this NG, talking about the evils of psychiatric drugs >when so many on here have serious problems and need aggressive >treatments. Go away and quit wasting our time. That is an order >goddammit. >Life is a bitch, then you die…it’s true >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

> I think there might be a fairly simple reasoning behind the Noah’s Dove > post.  I suspect these people to be Freudian analysts, or some other such > branch of psychology/psychiatry.  They most likely see (whether they are > conscious of it or not) psychopharmacology to mean the imminent death > of their branch of the field, and thus the end of their careers. > – Neil –

Umm…I JUST wanted to clear something up..because I think that people think that there is this war between talk therapy and drug therapy. In fact…quite the opposite. Most scientologists HATE Freud…and ANY type of accomplished, social scientific therapy. Don’t forget..Freud was quite the psychopharmacologist himself..dishing out "cocaine" as an antidepressant. In fact, the APA advocates BOTH medication AND talk therapy..both have shown to have positive value. What we DON’T need is the "cult of scientologists" who offer nothing but criticism, "pull yourself up by the bootstraps"…and a bunch of hot air. I hope we can please keep this in mind:-) James MacLachlan — "These signs, this space Takes a path you didn’t choose Stay strong, keep faith There’s a change that’s coming through Hold on, my love It feels like Heaven’s coming down…" The Tea Party, "Heaven Coming Down"

Response:

I hate to point out the obvious, guys…Noahs Dove…you know, like Noahs dove.  Probably not Scientologist, unless the Noah part is a ruse.  I think he/she may have alot of the sentiments of the COS but my guess is Latter Day Saints…well, perhaps an offshoot of.     I have no love for the  Church of Scientology  but I have to say the fervor of the Germans distaste and the depth of their resolve to put COS out of business there is frightening.  I think Germans in general should stay out of the business of persecuting minority religions, don’t you?(!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->      My sentiments exactly.  The IRS was on the Church of Scientology’s > case, but money changed hands under the table with politicians and > the IRS got pulled off.  There also were several national security agencies > checking them out; there being the potential for the Church to develop > information usable to blackmail DOD employees with access to > classified information. >     Last I heard, the chief prosecutor of the German state of Bavaria was > working on proving Scientology to be a cult and a fraud and then ride them > out of town on a rail.  The most telling thing is that in an interview back > in > the ’30s, Lron said that It would be marvelous to invent a religion and use > it to make money. > – Neil – >Noahs Dove, your gonna go to hell when you die. Why? Cause you are >trying to make sick people even more miserable. If I had anything to do >with it, your "Church of Scientology" would be outlawed and run out of >this country.  It is no "religion" it is a cult. Cults are not real >religions. Church of Scientology is a money making business/mind >control/control freak organisation, not a real religion. Anybody who >subscribes to the Scientology mindset or joins it is very weakminded. >Withholding medical treatment for mentally ill people is sinful and >anybody who advocates that is probably going to go to hell. Maybe we >should send Delta Force to break you out of that Scientology compound >and rescue you so you can be saved and deprogrammed. You have a lot of >gaul coming on this NG, talking about the evils of psychiatric drugs >when so many on here have serious problems and need aggressive >treatments. Go away and quit wasting our time. That is an order >goddammit. >Life is a bitch, then you die…it’s true >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I think there might be a fairly simple reasoning behind the Noah’s Dove post.  I suspect these people to be Freudian analysts, or some other such branch of psychology/psychiatry.  They most likely see (whether they are conscious of it or not) psychopharmacology to mean the imminent death of their branch of the field, and thus the end of their careers. – Neil – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The most salient irony in your posting derives from its header: your >handle. >But the rest certainly is ironic, too.  That a professional would >disseminate (much less draw in the first place) such simplistic and >meaningless conclusions is odd. >I’m not trying to imply that SSRIs couldn’t serve as an adjunctive >trigger to violent behavior–they can.  Almost EVERY AD on the market– >including the very first ones–can do that by triggering manic >reactions.  And mania, in a person already obsessed with violence and >revenge, could lead to what it did in this case. >But to suggest that this abberance is forthcoming in all who take SSRIs >is wrong in many ways. >JJM > http://www.drugawareness.org/ >    Columbine: Eric Harris was under the influence of the Prozac >clone, > LUVOX, at the time of the Littleton shooting. > A Morbid Welcome to my World. > Learning from this tragedy is the greatest gift we can give to those >who > lost their lives in each of these tragedies. > by Dr. Ann Tracy >    Littleton Colorado blew the door wide open to reveal to the world >the > pain and suffering I have witnessed on a daily basis since these >newer > serotonergic antidepressants (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, > Effexor, Serzone, etc.) hit the market. Eric Harris and Dylan >Klebold, > along with 12 classmates and a teacher lost their lives April 20 in > another preventable tragedy. This incident, like so many others >before > it, could save more lives than were lost IF this time we learn from >this > tragic and heart breaking incident. > If we don’t learn this time there will be another and another and > another Littleton, Colorado, Springfield, Oregon, Boise, Idaho, etc. > Learning from this tragedy is the greatest gift we can give to those >who > lost their lives in each of these tragedies. As Eric Harris was found >to > be under the influence of Luvox at the time of the tragedy, this must >be > a wake up call to the most extreme dangers of America’s most popular > medications – the new serotonergic antidepressants – Prozac, Zoloft, > Paxil, Luvox, Celexa, Effexor and Serzone. > Listed in the manufacturer’s warning as "frequent" adverse reactions >to > Luvox are "manic reaction" and "psychotic reaction." Of course >psychotic > reaction means the drug can induce what laymen would call insanity. > Mania is another slightly different and potentially very dangerous >form > of psychosis or insanity. the danger affects to both the patient and > those around him. Symptoms of mania include delusions of grandeur >(such > as planning to fly a plane into New York City and crash it into the > city), intense irritability and rages (as was witnessed in Eric >Harris’ > web site), criminal behavior including aggressive, violent, and >hostile > behaviors (all too obvious in this case),cravings for alcohol or >drugs > (Eric was reportedly drinking Jack Daniels.), drastic personality > changes swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other, extremely > deceitful, manipulative and controlling of all those around them, > although easily distracted they are very determined in acting upon >their > delusional thoughts, and very convincing to those around them of >their > perception of reality – perhaps because they, themselves, are so > convinced of the reality of their delusions, etc. > Periods of mania with delusional thoughts can persist for months and > years. It is living in a dream world or a fantasy world. And when the > brain has been programmed with violent video games, it would not be >at > all uncommon for those fantasies to become one’s "reality" in a manic > reaction. This is not a conscious state and is the method by which >these > drugs are so effective in merging fantasy with reality. > When you add to the alarming disclosure about the frequency of mania >and > psychosis with Luvox, the fact that "cough" is also listed as a > "frequent" adverse reaction to this medication the explosive >potential > is magnified greatly. The reason for the danger in this combination >of > cough and Luvox use lies in the interaction between popular cough > medications containing dextromethophan and the serotonergic > antidepressants. The mixing of these two can greatly increase the > possibility of a toxic reaction known as serotonin syndrome leading >to > PCP (Angel Dust) reactions. Would anyone have been surprised at Eric > Harris’ behavior if they knew he had been using PCP? Of course not! >The > tragedy lies in our ignorance of the drug interactions and the > negligence of the manufacturer to inform patients of this danger and >the > negligence of doctors and pharmacists in warning young patients and > their families of the dangerous potential psychotic reactions to >Luvox > or any of the other Prozac clones. > We witnessed the same type of drug-induced murderous rampage in the > Connecticut Lottery shooting just one year ago. Matthew Beck (see >below) > who worked at the lottery went to work where he shot and killed four > fellow workers in a Luvox induced psychotic rage before taking his >own > life. > How many deaths do we need to witness before we say, "Enough is >enough?" > In investigating 30 cases that have taken place over the last four >years > of something extremely rare before but becoming much more common – >women > committing murder and then attempting suicide – we also find an >alarming > link to these medications. Out of these 30 cases of mothers killing > their children or their husbands and then themselves, 22 were on > serotonergic medications at the time of the murder. This is an > alarmingly high figure! We had all better educate ourselves rapidly. > Before these drugs hit the market just over ten years ago these >things > were rare, now they are happening everywhere and the drugs are >lurking > behind the scenes in nearly every case. Society should demand an >answer > because we are the ones paying the ultimate price with our lives and >the > lives of our children while the drug companies rake in their millions >in > profits daily. > Waldner & Vickery Press Release: >    SSRI drugs like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Luvox–which was >apparently > prescribed for Eric Harris–can trigger violent behavior in some >people. > …we are extremely troubled by the hasty statements from the >American > Psychiatric Association indicating that "despite a decade of >research, > there is little valid evidence to prove a causal relationship between > the use of antidepressant medications and destructive behavior".What > "decade of research"? The fact is the large drug companies have > assiduously avoided any serious research into this lethal side >effect. > Note From Dr. Tracy: >    Matthew Beck, Accused of Killing Four in the Hartford Lottery >Shootings > also on Luvox. > A silent and seething employee went on a bloody rampage at >Connecticut > Lottery Corp. headquarters Friday, March 7, 1998, killing four senior > lottery officials before committing suicide. > Beck was taking at least two medications that physicians say are > commonly prescribed for anxiety, depression and obsessive-compulsive > disorders. Luvox is an anti-depressant used to treat an > obsessive-compulsive disorder, and Lorazepam is an anti-anxiety drug > similar to Valium. >– > Opinions: >    Eric Harris was taking Luvox (a Prozac-like drug) at the time of >the > Littleton murders. > by Peter R. Breggin, M.D > On April 29 the Washington Post confirmed that Eric Harris, the >leader > in the Littleton tragedy, was taking the psychiatric drug Luvox at >the > time of the murders. On April 30 the same newspaper published a story > quoting expert claims that Luvox is safe and has no association with > causing violence. In fact, Luvox and closely related drugs commonly > produce manic psychoses, aggression, and other behavioral >abnormalities > in children and young people. > Was the Littleton Shooting a Drug-Induced Mania? > While doctors interviewed by The Washington Post and CNN claim >there’s > no link between Luvox and aggressive behavior, the medical literature > gives a different picture. Luvox is the trade name for fluvoxamine, > which research shows can induce mania. > Doping our kids: Prescription drugs at root of violence, says expert > By David M. Bresnahan;

Question:

> Looking for some answers for my cousin: > can anyone tell me if there’s a relationship between psoriasis and > having drugs to reduce anti-depressive feelings ? > And which drugs are taken ?

Hi Cees,        except for the Lithium there are only anedoctal reports about a link between the P an the antidepressive drugs overall if you think ( I believe so ) to the news antidepressive drugs as Fluvoxamine, Fluoxetine, Sertraline etc. Someone has claimed a P flare taking Prozac or Zoloft or some other serotonin reuptake inhibitors. That lacks of a scientif support. Of course a lot of drugs  may cause a cutaneous rush, but P is another matter. Absolutely no relationship with the benzodiazepines ( Lorazepam, Ketazolam, etc. ) often used ( and misused ) to reduce the symptoms of anxiety in those who suffer from depression. Hope this helps Regards Oscar from Italy

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Looking for some answers for my cousin: can anyone tell me if there’s a relationship between psoriasis and having drugs to reduce anti-depressive feelings ? And which drugs are taken ? Thanks in advance, Cees (from the Netherlands)

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writes: >Looking for some answers for my cousin: >can anyone tell me if there’s a relationship between psoriasis and >having drugs to reduce anti-depressive feelings ? >And which drugs are taken ? >Thanks in advance, >Cees >(from the Netherlands)

take a look at this NPF page www.psoriasis.orgpsflare.html it indicates that (for example) lithium can cause P to flare DenverD (a recent flaker) — ROT 13 above to mail. Don’t mail posts, I’ll see’em here.

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Of course, Zardos, you could always be yourself and take the good with the bad.  Take it from me.  :)  btw… great website. L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My >name is Kirsten Adam. >You have two choices, speak freely and be dammed or Kneel and be >popular, >I’m not much for kneeling. >Zardos. >WebPage at www.hispc.demon.co.uk

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Hi Kristen, Welcome to the ng. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My > name is Kirsten Adam. > Anyway,  I was diagnosed in February with Depression and Panic Disorder. I > am currently on 20mg Paxil ( I am weaning off of it from 40mg). I am going > to be going on Celexa in about to weeks don’t know the dose yet. I have 0.5 > mg pills or Ativan for bad PA’s.  And I am going to a pyschiatrist once a > month. > I live in Eastern Passage, NS, Canada. And I’m 20 years old. > About 3 months ago I tried to commit suicide by overdosing on my Paxil. I > took about 10-15, 20 mg pills. I ended up in he hospital most of the day and > was released after they mad me drink a glass full of charcoal. > I’m really interested in talking to other people who suffer from depression > (and Panic Disorder). I also would like to know some more about Bipolar > (Manic Depressive) Disorder. I suspect I may be Bipolar. Can anyone give me > any advice?

 I have sent you a copy of the FAQs for the ng. I hope it is helpful. Peace, — Lynda

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<snipped some good stuff> > The only thing that was easier, was the point of knowing what > exactly was wrong all these years, and no longer thinking "It’s just me and > the rest of the world is okee-dokee".

You can say that again!!  And this group is a good place to help you realize that.  I know it has been for me, and I haven’t been here very long at all. > Finding out can be a long struggle, but you can’t effectively fight any > problem until you know for sure what it is. Be aggressive in finding out, > and then fight like hell against whatever your ails may be. Good luck.

Couldn’t have said that better myself > P/H/L > BPBoy

All the best to you Kirsten. — Peace, Gina "Inspiration, move me brightly light the song with sense and color hold away despair"

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Hello, You have come to a good group for answers. I was about your age when I was made aware of my bipolar disorder. So that is great that you are helping yourself at a young age. I know for me seeing a docter on a regular basis and finding the right combination of meds has been very essential for my mental health. Also I would suggest to inform yourself on what you suffer from. A book by the name of " Moodswing " by Dr. Kieve was real informative. I understand that I will survive Bi-Polar Disorder. Believe that you will too. Take care of your self, Corby – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, >I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My >name is Kirsten Adam. >Anyway,  I was diagnosed in February with Depression and Panic Disorder. I >am currently on 20mg Paxil ( I am weaning off of it from 40mg). I am going >to be going on Celexa in about to weeks don’t know the dose yet. I have 0.5 >mg pills or Ativan for bad PA’s.  And I am going to a pyschiatrist once a >month. >I live in Eastern Passage, NS, Canada. And I’m 20 years old. >About 3 months ago I tried to commit suicide by overdosing on my Paxil. I >took about 10-15, 20 mg pills. I ended up in he hospital most of the day and >was released after they mad me drink a glass full of charcoal. >I’m really interested in talking to other people who suffer from depression >(and Panic Disorder). I also would like to know some more about Bipolar >(Manic Depressive) Disorder. I suspect I may be Bipolar. Can anyone give me >any advice? >Thanks, >Kirsten

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>I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My >name is Kirsten Adam.

You have two choices, speak freely and be dammed or Kneel and be popular, I’m not much for kneeling. Zardos. WebPage at www.hispc.demon.co.uk

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I suspected before my initial therp did that I was bipolar, but decided to research it more. I read TONS of stuff, and it scary all the symptoms that applied to me. I didn’t WANT to be bipolar as some folks feel the need to tell folks in our positions. Sure, like I’d choose to have a life-long disorder that often leads to suicide, and seldom to longlasting happiness! Anyway, after a number of visits with my therp, a few with a pdoc, and a BUNCH of tests, it was clear, I am definitely bipolar. Even though I had suspected it, and researched it, and on and on, it was still VERY hard to accept. The only thing that was easier, was the point of knowing what exactly was wrong all these years, and no longer thinking "It’s just me and the rest of the world is okee-dokee". Finding out can be a long struggle, but you can’t effectively fight any problem until you know for sure what it is. Be aggressive in finding out, and then fight like hell against whatever your ails may be. Good luck. P/H/L BPBoy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My >name is Kirsten Adam. >Anyway,  I was diagnosed in February with Depression and Panic Disorder. I >am currently on 20mg Paxil ( I am weaning off of it from 40mg). I am going >to be going on Celexa in about to weeks don’t know the dose yet. I have 0.5 >mg pills or Ativan for bad PA’s.  And I am going to a pyschiatrist once a >month. >I live in Eastern Passage, NS, Canada. And I’m 20 years old. >About 3 months ago I tried to commit suicide by overdosing on my Paxil. I >took about 10-15, 20 mg pills. I ended up in he hospital most of the day and >was released after they mad me drink a glass full of charcoal. >I’m really interested in talking to other people who suffer from depression >(and Panic Disorder). I also would like to know some more about Bipolar >(Manic Depressive) Disorder. I suspect I may be Bipolar. Can anyone give me >any advice? >Thanks, >Kirsten

hi there kirsten you need to do a lot of reading about depressive disorders. i can see why you would suspect that you might be bipolar, but dont jump to conclusions. many things look like bipolar for sure. you didnt mention it but hopefully you have a good pdoc to help you through this. do lots of research to get the most out of your appointments, also. best wishes snowtree

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, >I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My >name is Kirsten Adam. >Anyway,  I was diagnosed in February with Depression and Panic Disorder. I >am currently on 20mg Paxil ( I am weaning off of it from 40mg). I am going >to be going on Celexa in about to weeks don’t know the dose yet. I have 0.5 >mg pills or Ativan for bad PA’s.  And I am going to a pyschiatrist once a >month. >I live in Eastern Passage, NS, Canada. And I’m 20 years old. >About 3 months ago I tried to commit suicide by overdosing on my Paxil. I >took about 10-15, 20 mg pills. I ended up in he hospital most of the day and >was released after they mad me drink a glass full of charcoal. >I’m really interested in talking to other people who suffer from depression >(and Panic Disorder). I also would like to know some more about Bipolar >(Manic Depressive) Disorder. I suspect I may be Bipolar. Can anyone give me >any advice? >Thanks, >Kirsten

Kristen …. I was originally diagnosed with depression and panic disorder.  My primary care dr. put me on Paxil. For me, personally, it was the worse thing he could have done.  Not only did it swing me almost immediately into a hypomanic state, the side affects and w/d symptoms from the Paxil were horrible.  After the hypomania crashed, I went into a big depression and finally changed doctors.  Paxil can give a nasty bite on the ass. The new dr. gave me Sinequan and Xanax.  This helped me for a time.  I had been feeling a heck of a lot better since taking these meds … and eventually tapered off. Until now.  A couple of months ago I almost went into full blown mania … but with the help of a good psychiatrist … and good medications … Depakote and Klonopin … I’m stabalizing.  Guess they finally realized that I am Bipolar. It’s hit and miss until they find the right medications, and talk with you enough to discover what type of illness you have … if, in fact you do have one.  Bear with it.  But don’t be afraid to discuss any concerns with the professionals that are out there being paid to help you.  Take responsibility for what you’re going through.  Do an internet search on all the medications and their side affects.  Knowledge is power. Good luck to you! Trish

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Hi, I’m sort of new to this ng. I have posted once or twice with questions. My name is Kirsten Adam. Anyway,  I was diagnosed in February with Depression and Panic Disorder. I am currently on 20mg Paxil ( I am weaning off of it from 40mg). I am going to be going on Celexa in about to weeks don’t know the dose yet. I have 0.5 mg pills or Ativan for bad PA’s.  And I am going to a pyschiatrist once a month. I live in Eastern Passage, NS, Canada. And I’m 20 years old. About 3 months ago I tried to commit suicide by overdosing on my Paxil. I took about 10-15, 20 mg pills. I ended up in he hospital most of the day and was released after they mad me drink a glass full of charcoal. I’m really interested in talking to other people who suffer from depression (and Panic Disorder). I also would like to know some more about Bipolar (Manic Depressive) Disorder. I suspect I may be Bipolar. Can anyone give me any advice? Thanks, Kirsten

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> Thank Cynthia.  I’m going to give it my best shot!

Dear Stacy, How are you doing? Just thinking about you and wishing you the very best! Peace, Lynda Reach beyond your grasp!

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I am sure you will…… if you find it isn’t working in the first week don’t panic as it may take between four and six weeks I hope things improve let us know how it goes and if you would like email me anytime Cynthia

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Thank Cynthia.  I’m going to give it my best shot! Stacy

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Robin; I’m wondering what you mean by "life here is awful". Is your son diagnosed BP I or BP II? But before you answer, if any of you is in imminent danger, or if your son is talking/acting ‘crazy’, get him out of the house and into ER.   — Kath From here on my branch I can choose to plunge or soar. I think I shall sit a while longer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hi stacy,my name is robin I am to suffering from depression,and having a very > difficult time right now.we are having severe problems > with our 19 year old son,who add and bipolar > and he will not take meds.life here is awful.i have a wonderful family a > husband who adores me and our children and 3 children 15,16,19,please help.i’m > losing myself and i am scared!

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Hi Stacy, good luck with the new ad bravo to you for changing your docs!!! I do hope you can straighten out you sleeping patterns I know I don’t function period in the morning it is a hard battle but if you are willing to fight you will succeed!! good luck Cynthia

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hi stacy,my name is robin I am to suffering from depression,and having a very difficult time right now.we are having severe problems with our 19 year old son,who add and bipolar and he will not take meds.life here is awful.i have a wonderful family a husband who adores me and our children and 3 children 15,16,19,please help.i’m losing myself and i am scared!

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Hi stacy I just wanted to tell you that I understand the problem with waking up. I hate to get up but, I found that if I turn the radio on and a light on about one hour before I need to get up that seems to help me. I hate to wake up in the dark and I have a hard time getting out of bed when it’s cold. So, maybe try to turn the heater on when you wake up. And I do understand about your job situation. My boss told me that if I continued to miss work or come in late on a regular basis I would lose my job. I also set all my clothes, lunch, ect..  out the night before so that I will have less to worry about when I am running out the door. Good luck Scottiea88

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hey stacy. looks like you and me are at almost the same point of attempting recovery. i think i have about a week’s worth of prozac more on you though. still on it, and it doesn’t seem to be doing too much. i’m gonna be moving soon too, so all my docs and stuff are gonna change. see what suggestions they have. i’m in therapy once a week too. anytime you wanna talk, i’m around. brian

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My mind is churning. . . somewhere in the depths is this information: Prozac is about THE WORST thing a bipolar can take . . . Stacy/Bill maybe you should check for contraindications. — Kath From here on my branch I can choose to plunge or soar. I think I shall sit a while longer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hey stacy. looks like you and me are at almost the same point of attempting > recovery. i think i have about a week’s worth of prozac more on you though. > still on it, and it doesn’t seem to be doing too much. i’m gonna be moving soon > too, so all my docs and stuff are gonna change. see what suggestions they have. > i’m in therapy once a week too. anytime you wanna talk, i’m around. > brian

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(last 3 weeks) changed my meds to Celexa.  I had to switch doctors in >order to try a different AD because my old doctor swore that the Prozac >would work.  I was extremely tired on the Prozac.  I would fall asleep >at work and behind the wheel of my car!  With the Celexa I don’t seem to >drift off quite so much.  I was also having severe cluster headaches >with the Prozac.  Those headaches seem to be diminishing now that I am >on Celexa.  However, my depression is still there.  I am in therapy once >a week and am trying to do things on my own to combat my depression. >Sometimes it feels like a losing battle.  Especially when I just seem to >have bad luck all the time.  Now things are getting tough at work.  I >have missed a lot of time over the past year and now that I am trying to >come back to work I am having a difficult time waking up in the morning >and getting here on time.  Any recomendations or suggestions on how to >go about changing this would be greatly appreciated.  My office has been >very patient up until now and I’m beginning to worry about losing my >job.  Help!

Change docs again if you must! Give this one a try, ask about Zoloft or Effexor. Taken in AM they "pep" you up, not drag you down like you experienced with Prozac..Desiree’

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I’m not sure this is true. Prozac was the first SSRI (I believe) and it is still the most widely prescribed, so naturally there have been many more reports of harmful side effects from Prozac than from other ADs. There was also an article submitted for publication about a study showing that Zoloft was actually much worse in all categories than Prozac. The journal in question depends upon drug companies for much of it’s support, and they put such pressure on the editor that the article was not published for over a year. Don’t ask me for the URL, its out there on the web some where. <g> >My mind is churning. . . somewhere in the depths is this information: >Prozac is about THE WORST thing a bipolar can take . . . Stacy/Bill maybe >you should check for contraindications.

 http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Keith; Some preliminary research (had to do SOMETHING in response to your challenge, but couldn’t find the article you refer to . . . perhaps it should be YOUR job to back up your claims. <g>): From www.mentalhealth.com: ZOLOFT (sertraline) During clinical testing in depressed patients, hypomania or mania occurred in approximately 0.6% of sertraline-treated patients. Relevant Side-effects: Infrequent: Abnormal dreams, aggressive reaction, amnesia, apathy, delusion, depersonalization, depression, aggravated depression, emotional lability, euphoria, hallucination, neurosis, paranoid reaction, suicide attempt (including suicidal ideation), teeth-grinding, abnormal thinking. Rare: Hysteria, somnambulism withdrawal syndrome. PROZAC (fluoxetine) During premarketing clinical trials in a patient population comprised primarily of unipolar depressives, hypomania or mania occurred in approximately 1% of fluoxetine treated patients. Relevant Side-effects: Frequent: Insomnia, anxiety, nervousness, agitation, abnormal dreams, drowsiness and fatigue. Infrequent: Confusion, delusions, hallucinations, manic reaction, paranoid reaction, psychosis, depersonalization, apathy, emotional lability, euphoria, hostility, amnesia, increased libido. Rare: Antisocial reaction, hysteria, suicidal ideation, violent behaviors (There have been reports of both increased and decreased lithium levels when lithium was used concomitantly with fluoxetine. Cases of lithium toxicity have been reported. Lithium levels should be monitored when these drugs are administered concomitantly.) I also found this though ( http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/13.html ) maybe the whole argument is irrelevant? "Among the SSRIs, there are few differences in adverse effects, and most differences are minor (see Table 3) (SmithKline Beecham 1992; Roerig 1992; Dista Products Company 1992; Solvay Pharmaceuticals 1994). The reported differences may be due to chance or differences in study design. Until there are objective comparisons between SSRIs, their adverse effect profiles should be considered roughly equivalent." "All four SSRIs may inhibit the metabolism of other hepatically metabolized drugs (Table 6) (DeVane 1994). Potential interactions exist between the various SSRIs and other frequently prescribed drugs including some antipsychotics, TCAs, some benzodiazepines, theophylline, phenytoin, terfenadine, and astemizole. Currently, the manufacturer of fluvoxamine (Solvay Pharmaceuticals) recommends avoiding concomitant administration of fluvoxamine with triazolam, alprazolam, terfenadine, and astemizole. Each of these drugs are eliminated via metabolism at Cytochrome IIIA4, an enzyme that fluvoxamine inhibits (Solvay Pharmaceuticals 1994). Fluvoxamine also inhibits metabolism of diazepam through Cytochrome IIC9 (Solvay Pharmaceuticals 1994). Since both fluoxetine and sertraline may interfere with these enzymes, it possible that similar interactions may occur (DeVane 1994)." "The SSRIs may inhibit the metabolism of the TCAs and carbamazepine (Grimsley et al 1992; SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals 1992; Ciraulo 1990b; Solvay Pharmaceuticals 1994) If there are any differences among SSRIs in this regard, they have not yet been established. Although it has been suggested that fluoxetine may be more likely to interact with TCAs, at least one report has found a possible interaction between and sertraline and desipramine (Barros et al 1993). The interaction between TCAs and SSRIs is of particular importance because of the potential for the development of toxic TCA concentrations and subsequent adverse effects (Ciraulo et al 1990a)." Cheers. — Kath From here on my branch I can choose to plunge or soar. I think I shall sit a while longer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m not sure this is true. Prozac was the first SSRI (I believe) and > it is still the most widely prescribed, so naturally there have been > many more reports of harmful side effects from Prozac than from other > ADs. There was also an article submitted for publication about a study > showing that Zoloft was actually much worse in all categories than > Prozac. The journal in question depends upon drug companies for much > of it’s support, and they put such pressure on the editor that the > article was not published for over a year. > Don’t ask me for the URL, its out there on the web some where. <g> >My mind is churning. . . somewhere in the depths is this information: >Prozac is about THE WORST thing a bipolar can take . . . Stacy/Bill maybe >you should check for contraindications. >  http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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depression is tough. i’ve been fighting it 8 years and just recently think i’ve found the right combo of meds and counseling to really help. don’t give it. it can and does get better, but sometimes we have to take the monkey on our backs and push till we find the right treatment for us. good luck.

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> Hello. > This is my first subscription to this news group.

snipped… Dear Stacy, Welcome. Glad you found us. Hope you stay awhile Peace, — Lynda Reach beyond your grasp!

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Good work, Kath! No one should just accept what I say or what anyone else says without some healthy skepticism. I try hard to repeat accurately what I have read, and I think I do a good job. That does not mean I am always right, and even if I am right, what I say may not be right for you. I often wish I had that URL to back me up, but I do fear I would become obsessed with collecting URLs if ever I start. Therefore I post things that can not be immediately verified. I don’t mind going out on a limb from time to time. <g> Peace, Keith >Keith; >Some preliminary research (had to do SOMETHING in response to your >challenge, but couldn’t find the article you refer to . . . perhaps it >should be YOUR job to back up your claims. <g>):

 http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Hello. This is my first subscription to this news group.  I was diagnosed with depression in October of 1997.  It has been an extremely difficult battle ever since then.  I have tried Prozac and have just recently (last 3 weeks) changed my meds to Celexa.  I had to switch doctors in order to try a different AD because my old doctor swore that the Prozac would work.  I was extremely tired on the Prozac.  I would fall asleep at work and behind the wheel of my car!  With the Celexa I don’t seem to drift off quite so much.  I was also having severe cluster headaches with the Prozac.  Those headaches seem to be diminishing now that I am on Celexa.  However, my depression is still there.  I am in therapy once a week and am trying to do things on my own to combat my depression. Sometimes it feels like a losing battle.  Especially when I just seem to have bad luck all the time.  Now things are getting tough at work.  I have missed a lot of time over the past year and now that I am trying to come back to work I am having a difficult time waking up in the morning and getting here on time.  Any recomendations or suggestions on how to go about changing this would be greatly appreciated.  My office has been very patient up until now and I’m beginning to worry about losing my job.  Help! Stacy

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