SSRIs

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: >: : Actually, Lithium is often still used this way in the media.  I was >: : shocked when John Cusak said in the movie Grosse Point Blank, "Mom, >: : they say you’re taking Lithium?" as if it were an antipsychotic rather >: : than a mood-stabilizer.   >: >: I can understand why lithium might be thought of that way.  The drug is >: used mostly for treating manic-depression.  The manic phase might be >: thought of (at least by laypeople) as a type of psychosis.  Both >: conditions often result in deviant behavior. >And the manic phase can actually be psychotic!  I’ve actually seen this! >Further, Li is being used experimentally with schizophrenia.  The >antipsychotics do help control the psychoses of mania.  And there is a >tiny literature on the use of of large doses of benzodiazepines for >schizophrenia (mid to late 70s I think – mostly in Canada).  And I mean >LARGE – like 400 mg chlordiazepoxide per day when normal is about 70 mg >tops. >: : Prozac is just a recognized name that TV >: : and screenplay writers hope the public will identify as something "bad." >: >: I will bet that less than 5 percent of the population can accurately >: describe how Prozac works.  Most people either think it’s a Valium-like >: anitanxiety drug, or an "upper" with an effect like amphetamines. >This is true.  Recall the big scare on ”Prozac leads to suicide”?  Hit >all the TV talk shows, and, seemed like an epidemic. >N = 6.  Out of some 1.2 million users at the time. >I’ll bet it is a much better rate than, say, amitryptaline. >– >John M. Price, PhD                                  

Dear Dr. Price;   I do not know where you get your numbers, but the rate of suicide from Prozac is way above six.  The real number is easily in the hundreds, if not thousands.  Although real data is hard to get due to many factors, your number is seriously in error; and thus gives a false impression of the "safety" of the noted medication.   Dr. Richard X. Frager

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : "PRECAUTIONS: > : _General_:The possibility of suicide in seriously depressed > : patients is inherent in the illness and may persist until > : significant remission occurs.  Therefore, prescriptions should > : "tablets" or "capsules" depending on the drug) consistent with > : good patient management" > This is much less of a problem with Prozac and the newer AD’s.  Prozac is > extremely difficult to OD on, even in huge quantities.  Unlike the > earlier TCA’s which were some of the most dangerous drugs in overdose. > Obviously and advantage when you’re giving them to someone who might be > suicidal.

Steve, I think you missed the point of my post.  I was commenting on the media coverage about Prozac, and the hysteria in the lay press on the theory that "Prozac leads to suicide".  My point was that _depression_ leads to suicide a LOT more than antidepressants lead to suicide.  In fact, I suspect those "prozac suicides" occured in spite of Prozac, and not because of Prozac. But that cute little disclaimer about suicide is pretty much SOP with all antidepressant medication package insets as a CYA on the part of the drug companies.   I feel that Prozac is infinitely safer than the old TCAs or MAOIs, but the suicide disclaimer is part of Prozac’s package insert, too. Probably on the advice of a lawyer. Lisetta Hagens, RPh

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[snip] : : Prozac is just a recognized name that TV : : and screenplay writers hope the public will identify as something "bad." : I will bet that less than 5 percent of the population can accurately : describe how Prozac works.  Most people either think it’s a Valium-like : anitanxiety drug, or an "upper" with an effect like amphetamines. True. Case in point. My roommate last year liked to go over on the weekends to one of his friends rooms and drink. He talked about how his friend took prozac with the alcohol for an additional "buzz". He said the kid had bought it off someone else. I had to explain to him that 1) Prozac doesn’t work that way (didn’t explain how I knew though…) 2) that alcohol and ADs in general aren’t a good combination, and 3) his friend was just plain stupid to think it was doing anything. Also note, the kid was not depressive. He had no need for prozac. — – justin "Everywhere I look you’re all I see. Just a fading fucking reminder of who I used to be." -NIN —

Response:

>     My depression isn’t triggered by "life events", but by the time of > year….so what life issues should I be exploring? >     leslie

Um, how about why that particular time of year is a trigger for you??  :-) I am not saying that there is no such thing as physical correlates to the feelings of depression, but sometimes there is more as well.  But if you don’t want to look, that’s cool by me. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

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: : > > This is true.  Recall the big scare on ”Prozac leads to suicide”?  Hit : > > all the TV talk shows, and, seemed like an epidemic. : > > : > > N = 6.  Out of some 1.2 million users at the time. : > > : > > I’ll bet it is a much better rate than, say, amitryptaline. : : I think there is a grain of truth in the "Prozac causes : suicide/violence/whatever scare."  I had a really bad reaction to an Well, let’s see.  Six times out of a million. I’d take that risk for just about any thing that would provide the benefits this drug provides.  Sure, not everyone is helped, but that is simply life. Six times out of a million.  That’s 18 in Los Angeles.  There are more murders there than that – let alone traffic fatalities! Six times out of a million. Not even a grain….. [snip] : I also know people who were depressed before taking Prozac but became : energetic enough to act on self-destructive impulses after taking : Prozac.  This is a well known risk of any antidepressant. And actually coming to a complete decision to commit suicide will increase one’s mood.  But not decrease the risk of the act.   [snip] — Life: Chemistry, but with feeling!   |   PGP Key on request or by finger!   Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. "A wizard cannot do everything; a fact most magicians are reticent to admit, let alone discuss with prospective clients.  Still, the fact remains that there are certain objects, and people, that are, for one reason or another, completely immune to any direct magical spell.  It is for this group of beings that the magician learns the subtleties of using indirect spells.  It also does no harm, in dealing with these matters, to carry a large club near your person at all times."                 — The Teachings of Ebenezum, Volume VIII

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I’ll leave it all below…. Interestingly, fluoxetine has been shown to decrease the need for alcohol. In short, the level needed for satiety is lowered.   Alcohol generally works on GABA synapses, or at least the neuronal membrane surrounding it.  It has also been thought to make the neuronal membrane more fluid and hence disrupt its ability to carry information. Fluoxetine, and all SSRIs, work very specifically on the proteins involved in serotonin reuptake.  This would indicate that there is little real interaction save through higher level neuron based interactions, as is the sense of being sated on anything, be it food, sex, or EtOH. This is not necessarily true for other drugs used in depression.  And if anyone is taking an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) a good red wine could really kill them.

: : [snip] : : : Prozac is just a recognized name that TV : : : and screenplay writers hope the public will identify as something "bad." : : : I will bet that less than 5 percent of the population can accurately : : describe how Prozac works.  Most people either think it’s a Valium-like : : anitanxiety drug, or an "upper" with an effect like amphetamines. : : True. Case in point. My roommate last year liked to go over on the weekends to : one of his friends rooms and drink. He talked about how his friend took prozac : with the alcohol for an additional "buzz". He said the kid had bought it off : someone else. I had to explain to him that 1) Prozac doesn’t work that way : (didn’t explain how I knew though…) 2) that alcohol and ADs in general : aren’t a good combination, and 3) his friend was just plain stupid to think it : was doing anything. : : Also note, the kid was not depressive. He had no need for prozac. : : : — : – justin : "Everywhere I look you’re all I see. Just a fading fucking reminder of : who I used to be." -NIN : — — Life: Chemistry, but with feeling!   |   PGP Key on request or by finger!   Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. Democracy, n.:         A government of the masses.  Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression.  Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic… negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Result is demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.                 – U. S. Army Training Manual No. 2000-25 (1928-1932),                   since withdrawn.

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>[taken out of context] >I personally think anti-depressants are not the long term solution to >depressed people’s problems.  Take the drug away and the problems return. >So very true–but that’s the same limitation insulin has when used to >control diabetes symptoms, or a crutch to help those missing a leg. It >doesn’t _solve_ the problem, but it does make the symptoms more readily >bearable.

    Yes yes yes……(although I must admit that I HATE the idea of being on meds for the rest of my life) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The drugs tend to smooth the way to function-ability, but then, I >believe, that the person needs to explore the life issues that have >casued the depression.  I do believe in chemical imbalances, but I >believe they simply predispose one to depression becasue of life events, >which for me explains why some people handle traumas well and others do >not. >I was first struck with depression while working in a job I really >enjoyed, with a very good social life, and absolutely no visible >"life issues" to cause or even trigger a depressive episode. Perhaps >I’m predisposed to depression, but without any identifiable–and after >6+ years, trust me, I’ve *looked*–external triggers, I’m far less >inclined to say that the chemical imbalances simply _predispose_ one >to depression–for some, it’s enough to bring full-blown depression on >all by its electrobiochemical self.

    I agree with Kevin 100%.  There are different types of depression and for me, the chemical imbalance is its own trigger.       leslie

Response:

> > This is true.  Recall the big scare on ”Prozac leads to suicide”?  Hit > all the TV talk shows, and, seemed like an epidemic. > N = 6.  Out of some 1.2 million users at the time. > I’ll bet it is a much better rate than, say, amitryptaline.

I think there is a grain of truth in the "Prozac causes suicide/violence/whatever scare."  I had a really bad reaction to an SSRI (made me manic for the first time) and I know many others with similar experience.  It’s easy for someone to say that I would have had a manic episode eventually anyway, but I do wonder how many years of illness were added by the AD.  Zoloft certainly was responsible for the first episode of serious manic-depression. I also know people who were depressed before taking Prozac but became energetic enough to act on self-destructive impulses after taking Prozac.  This is a well known risk of any antidepressant. The joking about Prozac makes many people forget that these are dangerous drugs, with significant risks and side-effects, and that they should only be used in cases of severe illness… Millie

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>>In response to Dawn Lee’s investigation: >> – do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a >> lot), what its generic name is, etc. >What is your problem with price?  Don’t you think the researchers deserve >some repayment after such a discovery?  Or are you in charge of reimbursement >at an HMO?  Of course we’re all looking forward to the day Prozac goes >generic, but for now the (formerly) depressed are happy to subsidize more >study of their illness.

It IS generic in Canada now.  And, cheaper. >   Speak for yourself. Those of us who are deemed uninsurable by the >insurance industry because of our depression are NOT happy to being paying >$100+ per month for our sanity. >– >Bearhair

. . . to reach me,            remove the "x" from my e-mail address. . .

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: : : Actually, Lithium is often still used this way in the media.  I was : : shocked when John Cusak said in the movie Grosse Point Blank, "Mom, : : they say you’re taking Lithium?" as if it were an antipsychotic rather : : than a mood-stabilizer.   : : I can understand why lithium might be thought of that way.  The drug is : used mostly for treating manic-depression.  The manic phase might be : thought of (at least by laypeople) as a type of psychosis.  Both : conditions often result in deviant behavior. And the manic phase can actually be psychotic!  I’ve actually seen this! Further, Li is being used experimentally with schizophrenia.  The antipsychotics do help control the psychoses of mania.  And there is a tiny literature on the use of of large doses of benzodiazepines for schizophrenia (mid to late 70s I think – mostly in Canada).  And I mean LARGE – like 400 mg chlordiazepoxide per day when normal is about 70 mg tops. : : Prozac is just a recognized name that TV : : and screenplay writers hope the public will identify as something "bad." : : I will bet that less than 5 percent of the population can accurately : describe how Prozac works.  Most people either think it’s a Valium-like : anitanxiety drug, or an "upper" with an effect like amphetamines. This is true.  Recall the big scare on ”Prozac leads to suicide”?  Hit all the TV talk shows, and, seemed like an epidemic. N = 6.  Out of some 1.2 million users at the time. I’ll bet it is a much better rate than, say, amitryptaline. — Life: Chemistry, but with feeling!   |   PGP Key on request or by finger! Email in response to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place.      - Gandhi

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[snip] : why don’t doctors prescribe pain relievers if they’re easily available : over the counter? If your speaking of acceptable levels of control of chronic and debilitating pain, the failure of physicians is laid directly at the door of the DEA.  In the US, we have cops controlling those drugs, not physicians. It is a shame as the cops don’t read, or can’t understand (I’m leaning to the latter) the literature on these chemicals in relation to true pain. [snip] — Life: Chemistry, but with feeling!   |   PGP Key on request or by finger! Email in response to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.            _/          ,          .    ,’,  /, |         /      >–. ,)           / /   / ,  //|,’        /’     ‘–’)          /,’       `         `   ,  / ,  // ||       ,’     (.–^( `’)         //                     ( ,  //  ||,___,-’     (__  ’^^^’        //         `          ,   >’/    ||,         (      |_(-’      ,’            /,      ||                          /                     , (/       ||                      )  ,’(                     "The devil made me do it!"

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: "PRECAUTIONS: : _General_:The possibility of suicide in seriously depressed : patients is inherent in the illness and may persist until : significant remission occurs.  Therefore, prescriptions should : "tablets" or "capsules" depending on the drug) consistent with : good patient management" This is much less of a problem with Prozac and the newer AD’s.  Prozac is extremely difficult to OD on, even in huge quantities.  Unlike the earlier TCA’s which were some of the most dangerous drugs in overdose.   Obviously and advantage when you’re giving them to someone who might be suicidal.

Response:

> This is true.  Recall the big scare on ”Prozac leads to suicide”?  Hit > all the TV talk shows, and, seemed like an epidemic. > N = 6.  Out of some 1.2 million users at the time. > I’ll bet it is a much better rate than, say, amitryptaline. > —

What really annoyed me about that was the fact that the single original indication for Prozac was _depression_. Anyone with any familiarity with mood disorders knows that _depression_ is more likely to be a predisposing factor to suicide than the therapeutic use of a medication. As a pharmacist,I have read the following more times than I can count in the package insert of an antidepressant: "PRECAUTIONS: _General_:The possibility of suicide in seriously depressed patients is inherent in the illness and may persist until significant remission occurs.  Therefore, prescriptions should "tablets" or "capsules" depending on the drug) consistent with good patient management" I think Prozac got a bad reputation because it was the first available drug in its class, and because it seemed safer (relative to previously available drugs) it was used a LOT. Lisetta Hagens, RPh

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<snip> >I personally think anti-depressants are not the long term solution to >depressed people’s problems.  Take the drug away and the problems return. >The drugs tend to smooth the way to function-ability, but then, I >believe, that the person needs to explore the life issues that have >casued the depression.  I do believe in chemical imbalances, but I >believe they simply predispose one to depression becasue of life events, >which for me explains why some people handle traumas well and others do >not.

    My depression isn’t triggered by "life events", but by the time of year….so what life issues should I be exploring?     leslie

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medication,soc.support.depression.misc,soc.support.depression.manic,soc.sup port.depression.treatment,sci.med.pharmacy,soc.support.depression.seasonal Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Distribution:

: hi, i’m in second year media studies and am doing an assignment for the : subject cultural studies. i chose to do something on prozac, because i : find it really interesting to consider the media’s involvement in the : popularisation of what ultimately turned out to be a highly overrated : drug. What makes you think Prozac has turned out to be overrated?  It seems to me that the SSRIs are a great success story. It sounds to me like you are taking a conclusion as a given.  From my perspective, the media has had more of a role in frightening people about Prozac than popularizing it.  I have rarely seen any reference to Prozac in popular entertainment or "the media" which was anywhere near an accurate reflection of the facts about the medication. Priscilla

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Dawn, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I can’t help but be offended by the topic in general.  Mental illness, no matter in which way the media may allude to it, is an awful thing to experience.  It is something that I would not wish on anyone.  Prozac is not an over-rated drug – it is an alternative.  I think that the reason for its original  popularity is that it had fewer unpleasant side effects than the older tricyclic anti-depressants, and it was also supposed to work faster. Anti-depressants work when there is something wrong with brain chemistry. They may be prescribed for any reason, and perhaps that is the point of your paper.  You can probably liken them to the 90s version of barbituates in the 60s, a la Valley of the Dolls. Prozac has therapeutic uses.  It may provide the same efficacy as the older tricyclics or the MAO inhibitors.  Do not depreciate the suffering of many people because of media attention related to a brand name. Steven

Response:

> In response to Dawn Lee’s investigation: > – The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that > depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it? > I hope you read your resource texts well.  There is nothing "easy" about > depression, even if Prozac is a successful recent medication.

no, i realise there isn’t. i’m clinically depressed, and am on zoloft and inderal, just for the record. what i meant is that people just assume that prozac is -the- "solution" to depression, which is what it was portrayed to be. and with this mindset and medication was the comparison with depression before, when it was "harder" to "cure" in that there wasn’t some "happy pill" that would "make everything better", which is what the media was hailing prozac as, it seems, which is the point of this essay, and not the point that depression is or is not easy. trust me when i say that being 18, depressed, and in university is far from easy. > – Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have > not been given this same level of publicity. > Can we say "Valium"?  Or even "Lithium"?  Don’t separate your study > from the history of psychiatric drugs in the popular culture. ("Haldol"?)

yes, but i think prozac had much much more publicity than other psychiatric drugs. i didn’t know what lithium was for until recently. valium i knew about, but it isn’t as widely and loosely used as prozac. > – how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we > need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before > we can actually accept that they exist; > ???  The people who have these illnesses have no trouble accepting that > they actually exist and are usually thrilled when they’re identified. > As far as pill-popping, in the US doctors are known for their reluctance > to prescribe pain relievers to suffering patients for fear of losing > their licenses.

no, of course people who have the illness have no trouble accepting that they exist. and of course we’re thrilled when we realise that all this isn’t us, but an illness. it’s about -everyone else- accepting that they exist, and that depression is a serious and debilitating, often terrifying mental disorder, and not just writing it off as something that we’ll "snap out of" if ignored. it’s about educating people through the media. and it’s also about coming to terms with the fact that no matter how hard they try, people who’ve never felt what we have will never truly grasp the effects of this disorder. why don’t doctors prescribe pain relievers if they’re easily available over the counter? > to understand about what the disease does to you.  It sucks.

tell me….. *weary expression* > – do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a > lot), what its generic name is, etc. > What is your problem with price?  

uh… i’m a student on a budget and could use some concessions? but, well, i suppose that isn’t eli lilly’s fault, it’s the system because international students don’t get pharmaceutical cover over here. > Don’t you think the researchers deserve > some repayment after such a discovery?  

maybe. although i don’t trust lilly completely, considering their initials trials seem a little dodgy and were not independent. > Or are you in charge of reimbursement > at an HMO?  

ooh, aren’t we in a foul mood. what’s with you and prozac? i’m trying to look at things from an angle which opposes my own view of SSRIs, considering i’m on one which just about saved my life. as a media student, i’ve got to try and look at things from a totally opposing viewpoint. > Of course we’re all looking forward to the day Prozac goes > generic, but for now the (formerly) depressed are happy to subsidize more > study of their illness.

i think that would be the government’s duty, if nothing else. i also think the public should contribute more. it’s strange that something like cancer or AIDS has so much devoted to it in terms of $$, publicity, media attention….. while something like depression, which is almost always not the individual’s "fault", is not given quite as much. things like lung cancer and AIDS via unprotected sex — these people who’ve chosen to harm themselves get more attention than depressives, who are basically chemically not-quite-there. > Actually I’m responding because as a bp I was disappointed by the "Lithium" > reference in Grosse Pointe Blank

this is precisely why i’m writing this essay — to point out the misconceptions and mis(dis?)information the media has caused, among other things. > , but also because I’ve seen the results > of Prozac in people very close to me and it is wonderful to see.  It’s > an antidepressant, sure, but it works differently from other antidepressants. > For people who really care about mental illness, it’s worthy of respect > and gratitude.  

i give it enough respect, but not quite that much gratitude because i believe that it is the medical community’s duty to provide solutions, with our help, of course. i have a great deal of admiration for the makers of prozac, zoloft, paxil etc. but it’s not prozac that i’m targeting. it’s the media, the makers (they need a new PR department), and the people who put their unquestioning belief in a breakthrough drug that was ultimately misused, abused, and trivialized by an ignorant general population. it was the duty of the media and lilly to properly educate these people, and they failed. > It doesn’t do everthing, but no psychological drug does —

precisely. but prozac was hailed as some kind of miracle drug that -did- do everything, and that’s the whole point. and i’m sorry if you were upset by my post, and i understand your mood (oh, do i understand), but before you jump on someone, i think you should wait a second and calm down. Dawn. Dawn Lee Third semester Media Studies RMIT University, Australia (Melbourne) "The advertisement is the most truthful part of the newspaper."      - Thomas Jefferson

Response:

> In response to Dawn Lee’s investigation: > – The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that > depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it? > I hope you read your resource texts well.  There is nothing "easy" about > depression, even if Prozac is a successful recent medication.

Hear, hear!  Have you not read this newsgroup at all, Dawn, or have you just shown up in hopes of finding information to help you?  If you have read it at all, you’ll have seen accounts from people who have gone through large numbers of antidepressants without finding one that works well.  You’ll find people who take a large chemical cocktail every day, as the combination of drugs and vitamins that they and their doctors have arrived on after long trial and error are the only things that will help their situation.  You’re speaking to a group of people who have tried to kill themselves at least once in most cases, often more.  In the case of manic-depression, it’s categorized in severity with schizophrenia, the most severe and dangerous of mental afflictions. There are messages here from desperate families, spouses, and friends of those with depressive disorders, all of whom are going through hell trying to figure out what to do. Perhaps you’re more influenced by the media that you purport to be studying than you realize.  You seem to have this image of depression as some kind of bored housewife illness, than as a major physiological and psychological problem.  If anything, this portrayal of Prozac of the saviour of the depressed has made it *less* acceptable to admit having a depressive disorder, as one is now the target of ridicule by those who see the whole issue as a joke, as a simple ennui that one has for life, rather than a demon who lives on the screwed up brain chemicals you have. Prozac is still too new to know about long term efficacy.  A drug has to be out a looong time before we really know much about it.  Do we really know how medical studies are conducted on efficacy?  Do they stay with the patient long enough to find out that the drug stopped working for them after a year?  Two years?  I’ve read so many messages from people who’ve had to switch antidepressants, either because they didn’t work at all, or because they stopped working eventually — and then each of these people has to get back into the trial phase of medication once again, to find something else that works.  Some easy solution, considering that the first six weeks of an antidepressant treatment are when the side effects are most severe. Antidepressants are nothing but tools to control the illness — for some people, with short term depression brought on by stress and situational events, an antidepressant can literally "cure" them.  For the chronically depressed, there really is no cure, just another hammer in the tool belt one uses to fix oneself as best one can.  Sometimes it takes a long time to find the right tool. > – Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have > not been given this same level of publicity. > Can we say "Valium"?  Or even "Lithium"?  Don’t separate your study > from the history of psychiatric drugs in the popular culture. ("Haldol"?)

Can we say "huge advertising budgets"?  :)  Lithium is a cheap naturally occurring substance that we dig out of the ground, basically.  If people are paying about seven bucks a month for their lithium prescription, there’s no way you can afford to plug it in the way you can with a prozac, which at the time I was taking it was costing about 200 dollars a month.  Lithium is also prescribed for a much smaller segment of the total population of those with depressive disorders, so you’re just not making the big bucks on it.  Add to that the media hype that Prozac was some kind of weight loss miracle, and you’ve got people lining up to take it, studying the right answers to give their doctors so they’ll seem in need of an antidepressant when they really just want a cure for overweight. Personally, I think that listening to the media at large is a huge mistake on the part of anyone.  One has to select which sources one considers to be reliable, read them, and even then, do research into whether what they say is premature, supported, correct, or whatever. People get sucked into the dumbest ideas, whether they’re sent through tv, mail, or email.  I don’t think there’s any difference with drugs — except that people believe that the medical somehow has something to do with the claims and studies of large drug companies who do their own research, etc. neko — whittle you into kindlin’  -tw  )._.,–….,’“.              - – -             /,   _..   _  ;`._ ,.

Response:

In response to Dawn Lee’s investigation: > When commenting on the widespread use of Prozac, an American journalist > suggested jokingly that it "should be added to the drinking water." > Indeed, Prozac has become the source of humour in at least five sitcoms, > where knowledge by the general population of its nature and effects is > assumed. Explore and comment on the popularisation of this psychiatric > drug, examining the role of the media and society in the creation of this > "media darling".

Actually, Lithium is often still used this way in the media.  I was shocked when John Cusak said in the movie Grosse Point Blank, "Mom, they say you’re taking Lithium?" as if it were an antipsychotic rather than a mood-stabilizer.  Prozac is just a recognized name that TV and screenplay writers hope the public will identify as something "bad." <slight snippage> > – The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that > depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it?

I hope you read your resource texts well.  There is nothing "easy" about depression, even if Prozac is a successful recent medication. > – Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have > not been given this same level of publicity.

Can we say "Valium"?  Or even "Lithium"?  Don’t separate your study from the history of psychiatric drugs in the popular culture. ("Haldol"?) > – how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we > need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before > we can actually accept that they exist;

???  The people who have these illnesses have no trouble accepting that they actually exist and are usually thrilled when they’re identified. As far as pill-popping, in the US doctors are known for their reluctance to prescribe pain relievers to suffering patients for fear of losing their licenses. For some diseases, like bipolar, the disease is not intangible but responds to the right medications.  What’s hard to understand is the correct mixture of medication, often.  However, there’s not too much to understand about what the disease does to you.  It sucks. > – do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a > lot), what its generic name is, etc.

What is your problem with price?  Don’t you think the researchers deserve some repayment after such a discovery?  Or are you in charge of reimbursement at an HMO?  Of course we’re all looking forward to the day Prozac goes generic, but for now the (formerly) depressed are happy to subsidize more study of their illness. Actually I’m responding because as a bp I was disappointed by the "Lithium" reference in Grosse Pointe Blank, but also because I’ve seen the results of Prozac in people very close to me and it is wonderful to see.  It’s an antidepressant, sure, but it works differently from other antidepressants. For people who really care about mental illness, it’s worthy of respect and gratitude.  It doesn’t do everthing, but no psychological drug does — when it does work, it’s great.

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Hi Dawn, I’m in Melbourne too, so e-mail, if you want to talk. I’m a long term prozac user, and interested in a couple of your basic assumptions about the drug.  The reason it is overrated is in my opinion the media’s fault for jumping on the anti-depressent nature of the drug, and billing this effective antidepressant as a wonder drug or personality pill. Prozac in the media has become a symbol for all things causing artificial happiness.  It was of course doomed to fail when prescribed to people without a seratonin deficiancy in their brains.  It’s not an amphetimine, and won’t make you super-person if you’re "normal".  I have major unipolar depression, a huge feature which dominates my whole life. Prozac is not a happy pill, its a "normal pill" for me.  Keeps me from wanting to jump under a train.  To me its a lifeline.  I find it incredibly offensive, (as I know many other "real" depressive people do that our medication is treated as some kind of magical aspirin given out for every case of the blues.  It becomes a joke, and by association, we are treated the same way.  Prozac is treated as a Valium of the 90’s by the media, which is ridiculous.  It simply doesn’t make you ’stoned’ if your brain chemicals are normal, probably won’t do anything except waste your money. I graduated media/literature last year ! good luck ! Patty xxxxx In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > hi, i’m in second year media studies and am doing an assignment for the > subject cultural studies. i chose to do something on prozac, because i > find it really interesting to consider the media’s involvement in the > popularisation of what ultimately turned out to be a highly overrated > drug. > its nature and effects are very much assumed in the general population > when it’s used as a source of humour, which occurs very often in sitcoms. > the creation of a cultural catchphrase/representation and what defines > general knowledge intrigues me quite a bit. > i’d love opinions, because i’m still planning my essay, which is due next > month. i’ve included my project proposal, so if anyone has the time, could > you give me some feedback? doesn’t matter if you don’t have the time or > inclination to read through it, but i’d like your thoughts on the issue. > also, if you could direct me to more appropriate newsgroups, i’d really > appreciate it as well. my essay sort of bounces between media and > psychology, so i wasn’t so sure where to go. > thanks very much!!! > here’s my proposal (it’s not fantastic coz it’s the first that i’ve had to > do, but the paper itself will definitely run along these lines) : > <start> > Cultural Studies Major Essay > CHOICE OF PROJECT > Proposed question for investigation : > When commenting on the widespread use of Prozac, an American journalist > suggested jokingly that it "should be added to the drinking water." > Indeed, Prozac has become the source of humour in at least five sitcoms, > where knowledge by the general population of its nature and effects is > assumed. Explore and comment on the popularisation of this psychiatric > drug, examining the role of the media and society in the creation of this > "media darling". > What the essay will deal with : > – Prozac’s popularity as a reflection of society’s increasing cynicism and > competitiveness; > – The creation of a "Prozac culture"; > – The media’s participation in this creation; > – The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that > depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it? > – Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have > not been given this same level of publicity. > Why this topic is worth considering : > – it examines our vulnerability to media influence; > – examines how we define "general knowledge", who and what defines it; > – how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we > need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before > we can actually accept that they exist; > – examines how a defining feature/representation of contemporary culture > is established; > – maybe this is a way of "educating people" on mental health, which is why > this publicity was originally accepted and then, when it got out of hand, > condemned, by mental health professionals? > – I have an interest in anything to do with psychoactive drugs both > clinically and in the media. > How this topic may be explored : > – a lot of literature review, but I will draw my own conclusions and > opinions from them as well; > – will look at some newsgroups on the internet which pertain to > depression, drugs, and/or specifically to Prozac, as well as ask > questions, do surveys, etc. and other methods of research; > – will look at some of the 6000-plus world wide web pages that show up > when the word "Prozac" is "searched" for; > – examine the sitcoms that use Prozac in their jokes; > – do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a > lot), what its generic name is, etc. > Resources to be used : > – Listening to Prozac, by P. Kramer > – Talking Back to Prozac, by P. Breggin > – Prozac Nation, by E. Wurtzel > – What you can change and what you can’t, by M. Seligman > – Darkness Visible, by W. Styron > – Psychology Themes and Variations, by W. Weiten > – Various newspaper articles from The Australian, The Age, The Herald Sun, > The New York Times, The Sydney Morning Herald, etc. > – Various world wide web resources > – Newsgroups (feedback & opinions) > Lecturer’s comments : > <end> > ok, thanks so much again! > regards, > Dawn.

> Dawn Lee > Third semester Media Studies > RMIT University, Australia (Melbourne) > "The advertisement is the most truthful part of the newspaper." >      - Thomas Jefferson

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Hi Dawn: I think you picked a very interesting topic.  here’s my personal experience and some comments: I was told by a consumer depression group that Prozac was "the" wonder drug of our time about 7 years ago.  I had never heard of it and asked my therpaist about it.  We tired it, and at 20mgs, I had a nearly 20 hour panic attack, thinking I was going to die after only two pills in a 48 hour period. Months later, when they developed the liquid form, we tried again, taking a so-called "baby dose"…I proved to have an allergic reaction: hives, tongue swelling, rash and itching and shortness of breath.  We decided no good. Now my ex took it for several months: it worked wonders for him unitl he cold turkeyed off it and then he became violent…something he never was before. I had a friend, who while on it, tried to committ suicide.  Now I have no way of knowing if it was the prozac or whether she was pre-disposed toward suicide before taking the drug. Conversely, I know MANY people who are taking it and think it’s great! I don not think depression has become assimilated in our culture.  One still needs to hide it in the workplace.  Time magazine, just a couple of weeks ago, did a report on mental illness and the ADA.  Very interesting, you might want to look it up (a May issue, soory, can’t pin-point it for you!) I personally think anti-depressants are not the long term solution to depressed people’s problems.  Take the drug away and the problems return. The drugs tend to smooth the way to function-ability, but then, I believe, that the person needs to explore the life issues that have casued the depression.  I do believe in chemical imbalances, but I believe they simply predispose one to depression becasue of life events, which for me explains why some people handle traumas well and others do not. I am old enough to remember the hype about putting floride in the drinking water and all the fuss that entailed. (And it wasn’t treated as a joke).  I feel too many folks hide behind the drugs and never get to the real issues in their lives once they feel better. Just my thoughts Ann (good luck!!!)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->hi, i’m in second year media studies and am doing an assignment for the >subject cultural studies. i chose to do something on prozac, because i >find it really interesting to consider the media’s involvement in the >popularisation of what ultimately turned out to be a highly overrated >drug. >its nature and effects are very much assumed in the general population >when it’s used as a source of humour, which occurs very often in sitcoms. >the creation of a cultural catchphrase/representation and what defines >general knowledge intrigues me quite a bit. >i’d love opinions, because i’m still planning my essay, which is due next >month. i’ve included my project proposal, so if anyone has the time, could >you give me some feedback? doesn’t matter if you don’t have the time or >inclination to read through it, but i’d like your thoughts on the issue. >also, if you could direct me to more appropriate newsgroups, i’d really >appreciate it as well. my essay sort of bounces between media and >psychology, so i wasn’t so sure where to go. >thanks very much!!! >here’s my proposal (it’s not fantastic coz it’s the first that i’ve had to >do, but the paper itself will definitely run along these lines) : ><start> >Cultural Studies Major Essay >CHOICE OF PROJECT >Proposed question for investigation : >When commenting on the widespread use of Prozac, an American journalist >suggested jokingly that it "should be added to the drinking water." >Indeed, Prozac has become the source of humour in at least five sitcoms, >where knowledge by the general population of its nature and effects is >assumed. Explore and comment on the popularisation of this psychiatric >drug, examining the role of the media and society in the creation of this >"media darling". >What the essay will deal with : >- Prozac’s popularity as a reflection of society’s increasing cynicism and >competitiveness; >- The creation of a "Prozac culture"; >- The media’s participation in this creation; >- The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that >depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it? >- Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have >not been given this same level of publicity. >Why this topic is worth considering : >- it examines our vulnerability to media influence; >- examines how we define "general knowledge", who and what defines it; >- how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we >need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before >we can actually accept that they exist; >- examines how a defining feature/representation of contemporary culture >is established; >- maybe this is a way of "educating people" on mental health, which is why >this publicity was originally accepted and then, when it got out of hand, >condemned, by mental health professionals? >- I have an interest in anything to do with psychoactive drugs both >clinically and in the media. >How this topic may be explored : >- a lot of literature review, but I will draw my own conclusions and >opinions from them as well; >- will look at some newsgroups on the internet which pertain to >depression, drugs, and/or specifically to Prozac, as well as ask >questions, do surveys, etc. and other methods of research; >- will look at some of the 6000-plus world wide web pages that show up >when the word "Prozac" is "searched" for; >- examine the sitcoms that use Prozac in their jokes; >- do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a >lot), what its generic name is, etc. >Resources to be used : >- Listening to Prozac, by P. Kramer >- Talking Back to Prozac, by P. Breggin >- Prozac Nation, by E. Wurtzel >- What you can change and what you can’t, by M. Seligman >- Darkness Visible, by W. Styron >- Psychology Themes and Variations, by W. Weiten >- Various newspaper articles from The Australian, The Age, The Herald Sun, >The New York Times, The Sydney Morning Herald, etc. >- Various world wide web resources >- Newsgroups (feedback & opinions) >Lecturer’s comments : ><end> >ok, thanks so much again! >regards, >Dawn. >Dawn Lee >Third semester Media Studies >RMIT University, Australia (Melbourne) >"The advertisement is the most truthful part of the newspaper." >     – Thomas Jefferson

Dear Dawn In response to your request for comments on Prozac,  I was on it for a few months.  It didn’t help over much but I was reluctant to risk coming off until friends put it bluntly – it was as thought the colour had gone out of my personality.  Once I came off i became myself again.  I don’t know how good the planet would be if this drug was put in the water – would we all be equally bland? Best wishes with your assignment. — Jane Sommerville

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hi, i’m in second year media studies and am doing an assignment for the subject cultural studies. i chose to do something on prozac, because i find it really interesting to consider the media’s involvement in the popularisation of what ultimately turned out to be a highly overrated drug. its nature and effects are very much assumed in the general population when it’s used as a source of humour, which occurs very often in sitcoms. the creation of a cultural catchphrase/representation and what defines general knowledge intrigues me quite a bit. i’d love opinions, because i’m still planning my essay, which is due next month. i’ve included my project proposal, so if anyone has the time, could you give me some feedback? doesn’t matter if you don’t have the time or inclination to read through it, but i’d like your thoughts on the issue. also, if you could direct me to more appropriate newsgroups, i’d really appreciate it as well. my essay sort of bounces between media and psychology, so i wasn’t so sure where to go. please e-mail me if you’re responding. thanks very much!!! here’s my proposal (it’s not fantastic coz it’s the first that i’ve had to do, but the paper itself will definitely run along these lines) : <start> Cultural Studies Major Essay CHOICE OF PROJECT Proposed question for investigation : When commenting on the widespread use of Prozac, an American journalist suggested jokingly that it "should be added to the drinking water." Indeed, Prozac has become the source of humour in at least five sitcoms, where knowledge by the general population of its nature and effects is assumed. Explore and comment on the popularisation of this psychiatric drug, examining the role of the media and society in the creation of this "media darling". What the essay will deal with : – Prozac’s popularity as a reflection of society’s increasing cynicism and competitiveness; – The creation of a "Prozac culture"; – The media’s participation in this creation; – The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it? – Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have not been given this same level of publicity. Why this topic is worth considering : – it examines our vulnerability to media influence; – examines how we define "general knowledge", who and what defines it; – how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before we can actually accept that they exist; – examines how a defining feature/representation of contemporary culture is established; – maybe this is a way of "educating people" on mental health, which is why this publicity was originally accepted and then, when it got out of hand, condemned, by mental health professionals? – I have an interest in anything to do with psychoactive drugs both clinically and in the media. How this topic may be explored : – a lot of literature review, but I will draw my own conclusions and opinions from them as well; – will look at some newsgroups on the internet which pertain to depression, drugs, and/or specifically to Prozac, as well as ask questions, do surveys, etc. and other methods of research; – will look at some of the 6000-plus world wide web pages that show up when the word "Prozac" is "searched" for; – examine the sitcoms that use Prozac in their jokes; – do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a lot), what its generic name is, etc. Resources to be used : – Listening to Prozac, by P. Kramer – Talking Back to Prozac, by P. Breggin – Prozac Nation, by E. Wurtzel – What you can change and what you can’t, by M. Seligman – Darkness Visible, by W. Styron – Psychology Themes and Variations, by W. Weiten – Various newspaper articles from The Australian, The Age, The Herald Sun, The New York Times, The Sydney Morning Herald, etc. – Various world wide web resources – Newsgroups (feedback & opinions) Lecturer’s comments : <end> ok, thanks so much again! regards, Dawn. Dawn Lee Third semester Media Studies RMIT University, Australia (Melbourne) "The advertisement is the most truthful part of the newspaper."      - Thomas Jefferson

Response:

hi, i’m in second year media studies and am doing an assignment for the subject cultural studies. i chose to do something on prozac, because i find it really interesting to consider the media’s involvement in the popularisation of what ultimately turned out to be a highly overrated drug. its nature and effects are very much assumed in the general population when it’s used as a source of humour, which occurs very often in sitcoms. the creation of a cultural catchphrase/representation and what defines general knowledge intrigues me quite a bit. i’d love opinions, because i’m still planning my essay, which is due next month. i’ve included my project proposal, so if anyone has the time, could you give me some feedback? doesn’t matter if you don’t have the time or inclination to read through it, but i’d like your thoughts on the issue. also, if you could direct me to more appropriate newsgroups, i’d really appreciate it as well. my essay sort of bounces between media and psychology, so i wasn’t so sure where to go. thanks very much!!! here’s my proposal (it’s not fantastic coz it’s the first that i’ve had to do, but the paper itself will definitely run along these lines) : <start> Cultural Studies Major Essay CHOICE OF PROJECT Proposed question for investigation : When commenting on the widespread use of Prozac, an American journalist suggested jokingly that it "should be added to the drinking water." Indeed, Prozac has become the source of humour in at least five sitcoms, where knowledge by the general population of its nature and effects is assumed. Explore and comment on the popularisation of this psychiatric drug, examining the role of the media and society in the creation of this "media darling". What the essay will deal with : – Prozac’s popularity as a reflection of society’s increasing cynicism and competitiveness; – The creation of a "Prozac culture"; – The media’s participation in this creation; – The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it? – Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have not been given this same level of publicity. Why this topic is worth considering : – it examines our vulnerability to media influence; – examines how we define "general knowledge", who and what defines it; – how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before we can actually accept that they exist; – examines how a defining feature/representation of contemporary culture is established; – maybe this is a way of "educating people" on mental health, which is why this publicity was originally accepted and then, when it got out of hand, condemned, by mental health professionals? – I have an interest in anything to do with psychoactive drugs both clinically and in the media. How this topic may be explored : – a lot of literature review, but I will draw my own conclusions and opinions from them as well; – will look at some newsgroups on the internet which pertain to depression, drugs, and/or specifically to Prozac, as well as ask questions, do surveys, etc. and other methods of research; – will look at some of the 6000-plus world wide web pages that show up when the word "Prozac" is "searched" for; – examine the sitcoms that use Prozac in their jokes; – do some research into Prozac itself – how it works, how much it costs (a lot), what its generic name is, etc. Resources to be used : – Listening to Prozac, by P. Kramer – Talking Back to Prozac, by P. Breggin – Prozac Nation, by E. Wurtzel – What you can change and what you can’t, by M. Seligman – Darkness Visible, by W. Styron – Psychology Themes and Variations, by W. Weiten – Various newspaper articles from The Australian, The Age, The Herald Sun, The New York Times, The Sydney Morning Herald, etc. – Various world wide web resources – Newsgroups (feedback & opinions) Lecturer’s comments : <end> ok, thanks so much again! regards, Dawn. Dawn Lee Third semester Media Studies RMIT University, Australia (Melbourne) "The advertisement is the most truthful part of the newspaper."      - Thomas Jefferson

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>hi, i’m in second year media studies and am doing an assignment for the >subject cultural studies. i chose to do something on prozac, because i >find it really interesting to consider the media’s involvement in the >popularisation of what ultimately turned out to be a highly overrated >drug.

You really think it’s overrated???  As in the effect it has on people who take it? Or in the message the  name "prozac" seems to bring out in the vast majority of people… a quick fix solution to depression and other stress related illnesses? >What the essay will deal with : >- Prozac’s popularity as a reflection of society’s increasing cynicism and >competitiveness;

I’ll buy that. Points with that question. >- The creation of a "Prozac culture";

Too many side effects for that to really take place. OK. Bad joke. But given the option I would look to another alternative if one was found that was more effective. Not because I’m  on a quest to feel "happy"… just to feel normal, or at least something like I used to. There is a lot of stress out there. I see it everyday. And it affects my life. Times ARE changing. >- The media’s participation in this creation; >- The creation of a "mainstream mental illness"? Or is it because now that >depression has an "easy" solution, it is now acceptable to suffer from it?

No. Depression is really out there. I find it MORE alarming that more an more people actually have the courage (desperation) to speak out in their quest for help. Trendy, it is not. >- Why other cheaper, generic, types, categories of antidepressants have >not been given this same level of publicity.

There is always one name that leads the way in new discoveries of any kind, or at least one that has somehow caught on. I’m not sure if prozac was a "breakthrough" drug for helping to treat mental illness, or if there is simply a higher incidence of depression in the general population over the last few years and prozac just happened to be the "drug of the day" that was used to treat that. Whatever. For sure it’s name has become synonimous with drugs that are used to treat mental illness, and I think it’s popularity now stems more from the "generic" aspect of that.  There are newer and (supposedly) better drugs available and I understand they have a fair share of the market too. >Why this topic is worth considering : >- it examines our vulnerability to media influence;

they do have clout! >- examines how we define "general knowledge", who and what defines it;

Getting bombarded with general knowledge these days. One thing’s for sure, whatever I’m defining gets lost in that bombardment. >- how we’re looking for a quick, pill-popping cure for everything, that we >need solutions to intangible, complex, hard-to-understand illnesses before >we can actually accept that they exist;

Perhaps the "prozac" culture will pave the way for others to sit down and look at the major reasons why so many are "Pill-popping". I think depression stems MUCH from the world in which we live (my opinion mind you) and the subsequent standards we gauge our own successes and failures in life. Impossible expectations are impossible standards to live up to. But we continue to set them. Not because we’re told to, more because we have to if we want to survive. It is a competitive world out there. Oh yes, I can hear the violins when I say that but I do wonder… are many pushing themselves too far. Heaven forbid we reach a breaking point. >- examines how a defining feature/representation of contemporary culture >is established;

The simplest reason of all… IT’S OUT THERE!!! >- maybe this is a way of "educating people" on mental health, which is why >this publicity was originally accepted and then, when it got out of hand, >condemned, by mental health professionals?

I’m not so sure it is condemened by the majority of mental health professionals. Awful lot of prescriptions still being filled. And for good reason. Many need help to simply get through the day. I now personally know that several friends actively take some form of anti-depressant medication. Ten years ago I didn’t know anyone. And that’s not because these same drugs weren’t available then (frankly I don’t know if they were), it’s because the level of stress that’s entered these people lives has dramatically increased over the past few years… job-loss, not enough money, divorce, a family member’s death, not looking good enough, getting older, not enough education, etc.. What’s that? You say these things aren’t new? Maybe so, but they have changed. A job loss now means a longer period of unemployment than it ever has before. The technology train is moving so fast it seems like your part-time job is now being a professional student just to keep up with the basics. And family? Jesus, who has time for them?? No wonder divorces are increasing at an alarming rate. Could go on and on but I think you get my idea here. For some (I think) this can get depressing. Don’t you? Maybe I’m reading your hypothesis wrong here but I’m not sure if you’re for, or against the use of anti-depressant medication in treating mental illness, OR, if you think (in fact) they are effective but are administered too liberally to people who don’t really need it. But you do ask some good questions and I sincerely hope you discover some informative answers that educate us all. Good luck! Mark

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