Question:
According to Vitriholic <dracodeprofundis<spam, spam, eggs, bacon and spam>: > Welcome to paradise: www.bltc.com
I think that site has some inaccuracies, but it’s infinitely better informed than certain Luddite mentalities regarding the subject. Chris.
Response:
Welcome to paradise: www.bltc.com Vitriholic
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wow, really? You’ve spoiled it for me now: all that research, and it means > nothing? None of it’s true? Oh well, let’s just hold hands and put our faith > in the lord. > Although…now that I think about it, I’d rather take my chances with > medicine. > Vitriholic > www.btlc.com > -> > ->Not to be confused with an NARI, but it depends on this week’s > ->current official abbreviations, I think. :) Seriously, though, > ->it has about equal potency for serotonin and noradrenaline, in > ->theory a bit like a tricyclic without the unwanted gubbins like > ->antihistamine and anticholinergic effects; IME it seems to do > ->something else, maybe direct 5HT2C stimulation a la fluoxetine > ->as it seems to have the potential to be an anxiogenic. > The kind of "thinking" that goes on in these biopsychiatry posts is so > overloaded with ignorance of neurochemistry, fallacies about what > conclusions follow from what premises, groundless assertions, > breathtaking leaps of illogic, wishful thinking, appeals to authority, > and just flat-out horseshit that it’s hard to know where to even begin > dismantling them. > It’s just astounding that people believe this stuff. Scratch that — > it’s astounding that people think this stuff even *means* anything. > Cortisol levels? Oxidative stress? Neurotransmitters? Huh? Do > these people just believe whatever they’re told? > Christ. Basing your life around a cesspool of fantasy being passed > off as "science" is really not the best approach to living. > Here’s the truth: no one has any idea how the brain works. No one has > any idea how psychotropic drugs work. There are no "mental > illnesses." Talking about "serotonin levels" as if you could put a > dipstick in your brain and measure them is laughable. Don’t be such a > bunch of suckers. > The relationship between consciousness and neurochemistry probably > won’t be unraveled with another thousand years of research. > Just for starters (assuming anyone is willing to think): When SSRIs > were new, we were supposed to believe that they corrected the specific > "chemical imbalance" that "caused" depression. They were "selective." > Leaving aside the fact that (1) pharmacodynamic selectivity was > deliberately conflated with selectivity for mood states for marketing > purposes, (2) the causality between neurochemistry and consciousness > isn’t even *slightly* understood, and (3) the phrase "chemical > imbalance" doesn’t actually mean anything, we are now supposed to > believe that these drugs also "cure" "generalized anxiety disorder," > "post-traumatic stress disorder," "obsessive-compulsive disorder," > "social anxiety disorder," an d even fucking PMS for god’s sake. Wow. > That sounds *really* "selective." What are the odds that the same > "chemical imbalance" is responsible for virtually every feeling that > someone doesn’t like? > How does "zero" sound? > Stop being such a bunch of idiots being led around by the nose. Smart > people buy drug company stock. Dumb people buy drug company products. > This is because there are always more dumb people than smart people.
Response:
> 1) SSRI > selective seratonin reuptake inhibitator…same things as prozac
No it isn’t, it’s an SNRI, also inhibiting the reputake of noradrenaline with about the same potency. That said, fluoxetine isn’t as selective as the tag suggests, it also has some NRI activity, but to a much lesser extent than venlafaxine. > 3) long term use of SSRI’s is never a good idea unless you MUST have them.
True of any medicine. Probably most of the bad press about drugs comes from people taking stuff (benzos in particular) that they don’t need; the real killer is that these issues completely overshadow the needs of someone who really *does* need some sort of medication but has a bad adverse reaction to it, who get all but ignored because of the heavy politics surrounding the problems caused by the former situation. Chris.
Response:
> 1) SSRI > selective seratonin reuptake inhibitator…same things as prozac > No it isn’t, it’s an SNRI, also inhibiting the reputake of noradrenaline > with about the same potency. That said, fluoxetine isn’t as selective > as the tag suggests, it also has some NRI activity, but to a much lesser > extent than venlafaxine.
Effexor IS a SNRI?? If so I am quite mistaken and apoligize. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 3) long term use of SSRI’s is never a good idea unless you MUST have them. > True of any medicine. Probably most of the bad press about drugs comes > from people taking stuff (benzos in particular) that they don’t need; > the real killer is that these issues completely overshadow the needs of > someone who really *does* need some sort of medication but has a bad > adverse reaction to it, who get all but ignored because of the heavy > politics surrounding the problems caused by the former situation. > Chris.
Response:
> Effexor IS a SNRI?? If so I am quite mistaken and apoligize.
Not to be confused with an NARI, but it depends on this week’s current official abbreviations, I think. :) Seriously, though, it has about equal potency for serotonin and noradrenaline, in theory a bit like a tricyclic without the unwanted gubbins like antihistamine and anticholinergic effects; IME it seems to do something else, maybe direct 5HT2C stimulation a la fluoxetine as it seems to have the potential to be an anxiogenic. Chris.
Response:
Wow, really? You’ve spoiled it for me now: all that research, and it means nothing? None of it’s true? Oh well, let’s just hold hands and put our faith in the lord. Although…now that I think about it, I’d rather take my chances with medicine. Vitriholic www.btlc.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > -> > ->Not to be confused with an NARI, but it depends on this week’s > ->current official abbreviations, I think. :) Seriously, though, > ->it has about equal potency for serotonin and noradrenaline, in > ->theory a bit like a tricyclic without the unwanted gubbins like > ->antihistamine and anticholinergic effects; IME it seems to do > ->something else, maybe direct 5HT2C stimulation a la fluoxetine > ->as it seems to have the potential to be an anxiogenic. > The kind of "thinking" that goes on in these biopsychiatry posts is so > overloaded with ignorance of neurochemistry, fallacies about what > conclusions follow from what premises, groundless assertions, > breathtaking leaps of illogic, wishful thinking, appeals to authority, > and just flat-out horseshit that it’s hard to know where to even begin > dismantling them. > It’s just astounding that people believe this stuff. Scratch that — > it’s astounding that people think this stuff even *means* anything. > Cortisol levels? Oxidative stress? Neurotransmitters? Huh? Do > these people just believe whatever they’re told? > Christ. Basing your life around a cesspool of fantasy being passed > off as "science" is really not the best approach to living. > Here’s the truth: no one has any idea how the brain works. No one has > any idea how psychotropic drugs work. There are no "mental > illnesses." Talking about "serotonin levels" as if you could put a > dipstick in your brain and measure them is laughable. Don’t be such a > bunch of suckers. > The relationship between consciousness and neurochemistry probably > won’t be unraveled with another thousand years of research. > Just for starters (assuming anyone is willing to think): When SSRIs > were new, we were supposed to believe that they corrected the specific > "chemical imbalance" that "caused" depression. They were "selective." > Leaving aside the fact that (1) pharmacodynamic selectivity was > deliberately conflated with selectivity for mood states for marketing > purposes, (2) the causality between neurochemistry and consciousness > isn’t even *slightly* understood, and (3) the phrase "chemical > imbalance" doesn’t actually mean anything, we are now supposed to > believe that these drugs also "cure" "generalized anxiety disorder," > "post-traumatic stress disorder," "obsessive-compulsive disorder," > "social anxiety disorder," an d even fucking PMS for god’s sake. Wow. > That sounds *really* "selective." What are the odds that the same > "chemical imbalance" is responsible for virtually every feeling that > someone doesn’t like? > How does "zero" sound? > Stop being such a bunch of idiots being led around by the nose. Smart > people buy drug company stock. Dumb people buy drug company products. > This is because there are always more dumb people than smart people.
Response:
> Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression. I > heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the > older ssris. I am thinking of trying new meds. Has anyone made the switch > to Effexor and if so, was it better? How is effexor different? Does it > work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive > etc)? Any comments appreciated > Thank You
1) SSRI selective seratonin reuptake inhibitator…same things as prozac 2) are you having trouble with prozac? 3) long term use of SSRI’s is never a good idea unless you MUST have them. 4) ask your doctor.
Response:
Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression. I heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the older ssris. I am thinking of trying new meds. Has anyone made the switch to Effexor and if so, was it better? How is effexor different? Does it work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive etc)? Any comments appreciated Thank You
Response:
>Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression. I >heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the >older ssris. I am thinking of trying new meds. Has anyone made the switch >to Effexor and if so, was it better? How is effexor different? Does it >work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive >etc)? Any comments appreciated >Thank You
BACKGROUND: This was an 8-week, multicenter, randomized, double-blind, parallel-group study of the efficacy and tolerability of venlafaxine and fluoxetine. METHOD: Outpatients with DSM-III-R major depression, a minimum score of 20 on the 21-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D), and depressive symptoms for at least 1 month were eligible. Patients were randomly assigned to treatment with venlafaxine, 37.5 mg twice daily, or fluoxetine, 20 mg once daily. The dose could be increased to venlafaxine, 75 mg twice daily, or fluoxetine, 20 mg twice daily, after 3 weeks for a poor response. The primary efficacy variables were the final on-therapy scores on the HAM-D, Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS), and Clinical Global Impressions Severity of Illness (CGI-S) and Improvement (CGI-I) scales. RESULTS: Three hundred eighty-two patients were randomly assigned to therapy and included in the intent-to-treat analysis. Both venlafaxine and fluoxetine produced significant reductions from baseline to day 56 in mean HAM-D, MADRS, and CGI-S scores, but no significant differences were noted between groups. Among patients who increased their dose at 3 weeks, significantly (p < .05) more patients taking venlafaxine than taking fluoxetine had a CGI-I score of 1 (very much improved) at the final evaluation. The most frequent adverse events were nausea, headache, and dizziness with venlafaxine and nausea, headache, and insomnia with fluoxetine. CONCLUSION: These results support the efficacy and tolerability of venlafaxine in comparison with fluoxetine for treating outpatients with major depression. IOW – YMMV — Catholic Church Primer: http://www.nambla.de
Response:
>Hello, I have been on prozac for a few years for anxiety and depression. I >heard that Effexor was newer and worked on different chemicals than the >older ssris. I am thinking of trying new meds. Has anyone made the switch >to Effexor and if so, was it better? How is effexor different? Does it >work better for anxiety then Prozac, is there less side effects (sex drive >etc)? Any comments appreciated
I haven’t tried Prozac, but I have been on Effexor XR 150mg for the last 9 months. I have gone off of it for a week or two because I think it has raised by blood pressure to dangerous levels (170!). Next week I get another test so I will know if it is the cause.
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